The Sum of all Fears : What if Elenin is Nibiru?

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by Theophoros

 

So, now you're resorting to using hypothetical stars that can't even possibly exist at this point of time? Current estimates state that a white dwarf would take 13.7 billion years to become a black dwarf. Not only is that older than the solar system, it's older than the universe. You really should start looking into what these terms you're using mean before you actually use them.

Maybe "the current estimates" are wrong? How is it even remotely possible for a black/brown dwarf to be older than the universe? It simply fails to make sense. Also at what point does a black/brown dwarf TURN to become a black hole?

To become a black hole means the gravitational field holding the star together collapses, thus sucking all of its energy/mass into a white hole somewhere in hyperspace. Gravity is a push force, not a pull force that mainstream science advocates.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


mate thats gotta be the longest bus ride in the galaxy

must be terrible living on a planet that is a giant bus - goes to show that public transport everywhere is the same

reply to post by Highlander64


The possibilies are almost endless and everything is relative to something else. "The longest bus ride in our galaxy" might be better than packing 10 carriers, 10 cruisers and 50 destroyers from alpha draconis from 40 light years away.

If we wanted to colonise space and had not mastered faster than light speed, would we not consider planetoids as viable alternatives? Sure it would take hundreds of alien generations....

Don't know, just pondering different sci-fi schemes.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


First off brown dwarfs and black dwarfs are two completely different things. A brown dwarf is a star that failed to sustain fusion and is very similar to a massive gas giant. A black dwarf on the other hand would form when a white dwarf cools so much that it no longer produces significant amounts of heat or light. For a white dwarf to cool this much it would require about 13.7 billion years, thus why the star is hypothetical, and thus why it is impossible for one to exist. It is also impossible for either a brown dwarf or a black dwarf to become a black hole. A black hole requires a star more massive than the Sun to collapse and both black dwarfs and brown dwarfs are less massive than even the Sun.

Meteor over the South West was travelling from West to East : Gee, Guess what? That where Elenin is coming from...

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by Theophoros

 

So, now you're resorting to using hypothetical stars that can't even possibly exist at this point of time? Current estimates state that a white dwarf would take 13.7 billion years to become a black dwarf. Not only is that older than the solar system, it's older than the universe. You really should start looking into what these terms you're using mean before you actually use them.

I knew exactly what the terms meant before I used them - perhaps you should look at the track record of science before you say something is impossible...

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Theophoros

 

Elenin will be "aligned" (horizontally, but otherwise not) with the Sun and Earth at about 04:00 on September 27, UTC time. That's 10:00 PM September 26 in Denver.

Obama will speak in Denver on the 27th. That's cutting it pretty close. You'd think that they'd give him a little more leeway since it's the end of the world and all.

edit on 9/15/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Well, gee, do ya think they'll keep him on a leash in the White House until four hours before his speech?

reply to post by Theophoros


Do you really want to go there? Gee, let's look at the track record of doomsayers. Oh what do you know they have an accuracy of 0%. Let me ask why do accept the hypothesis that a white dwarf could become a black dwarf, but not the hypothesis for how long it takes? Oh wait. I already know the answer to that. It's because the time it takes for one to form doesn't fit your theory for the day, but their existence does.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by Theophoros

 

Do you really want to go there? Gee, let's look at the track record of doomsayers. Oh what do you know they have an accuracy of 0%. Let me ask why do accept the hypothesis that a white dwarf could become a black dwarf, but not the hypothesis for how long it takes? Oh wait. I already know the answer to that. It's because the time it takes for one to form doesn't fit your theory for the day, but their existence does.

Got no problem with how long it takes - got major problem with man made dating methods.

In other words, homie, I think the Universe is alot older then you and your buddies think it is.

Clear it up any for ya?

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

First off brown dwarfs and black dwarfs are two completely different things. A brown dwarf is a star that failed to sustain fusion and is very similar to a massive gas giant. A black dwarf on the other hand would form when a white dwarf cools so much that it no longer produces significant amounts of heat or light. For a white dwarf to cool this much it would require about 13.7 billion years, thus why the star is hypothetical, and thus why it is impossible for one to exist. It is also impossible for either a brown dwarf or a black dwarf to become a black hole. A black hole requires a star more massive than the Sun to collapse and both black dwarfs and brown dwarfs are less massive than even the Sun.

edit on 15-9-2011 by Xcalibur254 because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the explanation but I am not sure what to believe and what to disregard. Either the universe is much older than 4.5 billion years old or black dwarfs form much sooner than 13.7 billion years. And how can science be sure how much mass it takes to create a black hole? I am of the opinion that all stars eventually turn into black holes and thus energy is recycled.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Only the solar system is 4.5 billion years old. The universe itself is about 14 billion years old. As for the black hole while we can't know 100% as they are completely hypothetical the math that supports their existence requires them to be massive stars. On top of that we know that smaller stars go on to become either white dwarfs or neutron stars.

This guy says pretty much the same thing as I do - says Elenin is a "Black Star" which, to me, is either a Black Carbon Star or a Black Dwarf.

He also predicts bad news for the 27th of this month back in May :

He bases the earthquake on the 26th using NASA articles on Gravity Troughs and Portals...

reply to post by Theophoros

This guy says pretty much the same thing as I do - says Elenin is a "Black Star" which, to me, is either a Black Carbon Star or a Black Dwarf.

What is a "black carbon star"?
I know what a carbon star is. Elenin is not that.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by Theophoros

 

So, now you're resorting to using hypothetical stars that can't even possibly exist at this point of time? Current estimates state that a white dwarf would take 13.7 billion years to become a black dwarf. Not only is that older than the solar system, it's older than the universe. You really should start looking into what these terms you're using mean before you actually use them.

Maybe "the current estimates" are wrong? How is it even remotely possible for a black/brown dwarf to be older than the universe? It simply fails to make sense.

It isn't possible. That's what he just said - "can't even possibly exist at this point in time", and "hypothetical stars". Both turns of phrase mean that black dwarves are not.

Also at what point does a black/brown dwarf TURN to become a black hole?

At NO point. Black/brown dwarves (you know the two are entirely separate, and take separate paths, right?) NEVER become black holes - they don't have the mass for it.

Depending on initial mass, a normal star will become either a white dwarf, a neutron star, or a black hole. Mass determines which.

For what it is worth : Says NASA employee lables major alignments for this fall as problematic :

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Theophoros

 

What is a "black carbon star"?
I know what a carbon star is. Elenin is not that.

He is not the one that references a Black Carbon Star that came from another video - I personally took it to mean a Black Dwarf. That video just mentions a Dwarf Star but he says it must be one that is extremely cold.

reply to post by Theophoros


And what little credibility you might have had has just gone out the window. I can't believe you seriously just posted a Terral Croft video. He's the one that started this whole Elenin nonsense and he has been caught lying so many times it's ridiculous. I think my favorite claim of his is when he said that he was unable to find Elenin using a bigger telescope than Leonid Elenin. First off, he was "looking" in the direction of Pluto, which Elenin was nowhere near. The picture he posted of his "larger" telescope was of a low-end Mead 3". Elenin used an observatory's 18". Then there's the fact that the picture of "his scope" was found to have been taken from a British skywatching forum. And the icing on top of the cake when it was found that the pictures "he took" came from old NASA missions. The fact that people bought into his schtick and continue to do so makes me lose all hope in humanity.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by Theophoros

 

And what little credibility you might have had has just gone out the window. I can't believe you seriously just posted a Terral Croft video. He's the one that started this whole Elenin nonsense and he has been caught lying so many times it's ridiculous. I think my favorite claim of his is when he said that he was unable to find Elenin using a bigger telescope than Leonid Elenin. First off, he was "looking" in the direction of Pluto, which Elenin was nowhere near. The picture he posted of his "larger" telescope was of a low-end Mead 3". Elenin used an observatory's 18". Then there's the fact that the picture of "his scope" was found to have been taken from a British skywatching forum. And the icing on top of the cake when it was found that the pictures "he took" came from old NASA missions. The fact that people bought into his schtick and continue to do so makes me lose all hope in humanity.

Truthfully, buddy, you never had any credibility...

Originally posted by Theophoros
Meteor over the South West was travelling from West to East : Gee, Guess what? That where Elenin is coming from...

According to the video and diagrams therein which you have provided yourself in the OP, Elenin will be "coming from" the east toward the west, not west to east. Earth rotates counter-clockwise as viewed from the north pole, making the sun "rise" in the east, as the point you are at crosses the "western" terminator limb. Sunrise is "east" of that point, since you are to the west, travelling "towards" the sun with the Earth's rotation.