Good thread Slayer.
Although most of what I believe has already been covered by other posters I would still like to contribute my observations on the matter.
To begin with, I agree with some of the previous posters who believe the "TPTB" are all of us, as in contemporary society and no more or less
dangerous than your neighbors and co-workers.
I also believe "TPTB" are a necessary product of this stage in human social evolution.
From my worldview, the all powerful phantom entity that many on this website seem to believe are pulling the strings of world government, working
toward some nefarious unknown goal are nothing more than a product of naivety and uneducated paranoia.
Are there incredibly wealthy individuals who meet behind closed doors to guide national policies in their own best interests?
In my opinion, absolutely.
Is there a global cabal like something out a Nicholas Cage movie or Dan Brown book?
I am immediately dismissing the radical viewpoint for what it is, ignorant and unrealistic.
As others have said, I get that some want to tear it all down...and then what's your plan?
The vast majority of the more radical opinions on the matter are kids and young 20 something's acting out their versions of teen angst and idealism,
which is a right of passage into adulthood but preaching Anarchy and violent revolution is typically the diatribe of someone who has little clue and
even less grasp on what makes a society work.
I cant help but feel those from western first world societies who feel the system is broken, their human rights are being somehow violated and they
are somehow getting a raw deal are terribly ignorant about the history of human civilization.
A few facts...
The quality of living and the civil rights afforded to everyone posting in this thread are far superior to anything the human race has enjoyed in its
Many seem misinformed about the basic meaning of freedom.
The concept of freedom is not the right to do whatever you choose without consequence, the concept of law is one of the most important tenants of
Freedom in the context of the state is the freedom to stand or fall on your own device, to voice your opinion publically without worry of
Freedom does not imply a guaranteed standard of living, free education, accessible healthcare or affordable housing. That is the place of elected
government which in turn necessitates bureaucracy and all of the negative consequence that come with it.
The average human lifespan has gone from an average of twenty 5000 years ago to an average of thirty 100 years ago and is currently sixtyseven
All due to the medical, environmental and nutritional advantages of modern society and the system we have created aka "TPTB"
The global transportation infrastructure has been developed around fossil fuels which is unsustainable and needs to change but goes far beyond most
peoples scope of what is required to maintain a global population of 8 billion people.
Everything from the plethora of foodstuffs we all enjoy at the grocery store to basic staple production like rice and grain depends on petroleum
The factories that produced every single item in most peoples homes, the electricity that turns the lights on and makes the communication beyond the
room you are in possible, it all depends on that petroleum driven infrastructure.
In time that will change because it has to, but for know the vast majority of the worlds people depend on it. If mechanized commercial agriculture
were stopped tomorrow and people were forced to survive by their own devices billions would starve including most posting on this message board and
How many proponents of returning humanity to an self sufficient agrarian life style are willing to sign the immediate death warrants of billions?
The strongest, most deeply rooted primal drives of everyone is self preservation and procreation of the species, we are hard wired and not likely to
change anytime soon without radical social conditioning and forced medical treatments, so how many are willing to empower a government to enforce such
Mandating reproduction is contradictory to basic human rights, one needs to look no farther than the current mess with the 1 child policies of China
to see the ugly reality of implementing forced population control.
The critical biomass of humans on the planet with our current technologies is estimated by many to be around 10 billion.
A stabilization of population growth with an eventual reduction in world population is the ideal solution but is an impractical fantasy at current
human social development.
The idea that returning to a aboriginal culture as an improvement to the world we live in today is a hollywood fantasy.
ATS poster mamabeth beautifully expresses an ideal held by many in this eloquent post romanticizing a way of life that never existed...
( I am using Mamabeth's post as an example for rebuttal because it is well written and typifies the mind set of many with similar beliefs. I have
nothing but respect for either her, or any others who are in agreement with her ideals and have no agenda behind the following other than the hope of
educating some of the ATS readership with fact)
Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by SLAYER69
I would like to see the U.S. go back to the way it was before
europe invaded it.People respecting the land,nature and animals.
Killing animals for food and not for sport.Growing your own food
and feeling the earth in your hands as you plant your crops.Drinking
water that is pure and clean from any river,lake or pond.
Women baking bread and cooking real food not something thrown
in a microwave. Making your own clothes and embroidering your
linens.Milking the cows,feeding the livestock and canning food from
A great number of species were hunted to extinction by the early Paleoamericans. The bison, deer etc. survived because their populations were able to
absorb and adapt to human predation, not so for the american camel, columbian mammoth or first horses (all of the modern horses in the America's were
introduced by the europeans in the 1500's).
Killing for sport? Do people count? How about the massive scale of the blood sacrifice of the mesoamerican tribes which was often connected with sport
or the territorial aggressions of the plains tribes warrior culture where it was a game for the strong to take what they pleased from the weak and
individual status was measured in trophies like human scalps on the medicine pole?
Regarding wildlife, Just last month a Umatilla tribal member here in Oregon caused a bit of an uproar when he was caught shooting a federally
protected golden eagle just to pluck its tail feathers in an ages old, time honored Native ceremonial tradition.
Call it what you will but I see no difference in killing something to spiff up your headdress or totem and killing something to spiff up a blank space
over your fireplace. They are equally wasteful and disrespectful to the life of the animal.
Growing enough food to sustain your family through the winter without machinery or beasts of burden (remember, the europeans brought them) is
miserable,back breaking work. It is also a gamble that without modern irrigation and pesticides you will have any crops to harvest.
Hopefully your water from a river is clean and pure, your taking your chances drinking from a lake and are playing russian roulette drinking from a
pond. Modern chlorination and other water purification techniques protect us from with all manner of pathogenic bacteria.
Have you ever baked bread from scratch in your kitchen much less had to pick the weevils out of the grain before grinding the flour to prepare to bake
bread that is hard as a stale pretzel because leavening bread with yeast was a european invention?
By making your own clothes you would be tanning hides for buckskin and stitching furs ( is it harmonious with nature kill something just to wear it?).
You could embroider animal hyde to your hearts content but linen, i.e. woven fabric of any kind, was brought by the europeans as well.
You wouldn't be milking any cows, feeding any livestock (unless you count dogs as livestock) or canning any food.
Domestic livestock (cows,pigs,wool-bearing sheep, goats) and the idea of raising food animals arrived in the new world with the europeans, the
pre-columbian natives did not keep so much as a chicken.
Canning is a modern convenience invented by the europeans. Smoking,drying,pickling and salting were the only options available to anyone prior to the
The reality is pre-columbian native life was harsh and brutal, and few died from old age. Most met their end through disease,infection, in childbirth
and the at the tip of a spear. The average lifespan was 25 years, how many here are willing to trade 40 or 50 years off of their lives?
In conclusion, we simply cannot have it both ways and the truth the world we have now would be an unfathomable paradise for the common man to even
our immediate ( 3 or 4 generations past) ancestors. While by no means perfect, one only has to look at our history to see how far we have come to get
to where we are.
Many forget the basic fact that humanity model A.D. 2011 is not the end product of social evolution. It takes a little humility, however some need to
realize that 500 years from now people will read our history and see us in the same primitive light we use to view our own ancestors lifestyles and
cultures of the 1600's.
I think that by looking at the last millennia, over the next millennia society has no choice but to evolve into a single global entity.
Barring a thermonuclear world war, asteroid impact or similar holocaust, I believe that something like the social utopia depicted in the Star Trek
universe is our likely fate in the near term of the next few centuries.
The basic rationale being that shortly we will develop cheap sustainable energy and intelligent mechanization freeing humanity from the necessity of
waging war to control finite resources and working for survival in turn allowing all of mankind to pursue greater endeavors (such as the evolution to
a type 1 civilasation).
Those are my few cents on "TPTB"
edit on 14-9-2011 by Drunkenparrot because: (no reason given)