So, You Hate TPTB. Whats your solution?

reply to post by nenothtu


thanks for not jumping on my spelling mistake enemy should have been enema

i chose that word spefically cause there is nothing pleasant about experience with our government

reply to post by LightAssassin




I can appreciate that.
But is it applicable to all?

reply to post by randyvs


Forgive my bit of redundance but it really is all about my beliefs. The PTB are just the perfect example of how it's truely mankinds heart that must change. They are in everyone of us. This bands lyrics seem fitting.

reply to post by SLAYER69


'Whether' it is applicable to all does not matter.

Going back to nature is the way it should be. No other animal in the animal kingdom gets a choice to lose respect for nature. Only with our detachment have we brought about an attitude where the situation 'needs' to be applicable to all.

We are in a situation where to do the above is almost impossible now. Hence why, in my opinion, people want doom and gloom. Wiping the slate clean, literally, could really be the only way to do it. Once worldwide electricity is destroyed we won't have a choice.

That situation won't be applicable to most humans. Suck eggs.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Hi, Slayer69, thanks for the opportunity to spew.

Get your spew-shields on ATSers..

We are The Alpha and The Omega; We are TPTB.

So I can't honestly hate them (TPTB); I is them.

I would like to be as honest as possible with this post with no intention of being right or wrong; when I honestly assess myself I can come to no other conclusion; I am the source of all suffering.

Anyone trying to understand that please refer to The Stanford Prison Experiment, for starters. Maybe Siddhartha for enders.

en.wikipedia.org...

What do they and others [still to be mentioned] all have in common?

The obvious thing that they seem to have in common to me is the mutual need for some target for their hate. I don't know what else to add that is constructive. Maybe this: I am learning about ancient Greece. It is actually a little stunning to realize that we know next to nothing about how these people lived their daily lives. I have to say that what little we do know reinforces my belief that people just have not changed at all. In fact I think that is one of the great lies that we consume by consensus; that we are different somehow from 'the ancients'.

Anywho, one thing we know is that they lived in Phratries (Greek word). This means that they did not live in little nuclear families like we do but in large, loosely related groups that usually had some historical claim to a god or hero as an ancestor. In other words tribes. We also know from fragmentary legal texts that citizens claimed citizenship not based on patrilineage or matrilineage but upon inclusion in a phratry's religious ceremonies.

That means that if you were not a practicing something or other (Zeus cult, Hera cult, whatever) you did not eat and did not belong in society. That's crazy thinking to us, isn't it. But I can't help think that some similar societal force is at work that creates this intense need to kill one another over religious differences.

"Solutions? We don't need no stinking solutions."

Mahatma Ghandi (Just Kidding)

Well, my solution is probably going to upset people.

When the time comes and all opposites under the sun have been reconciled*.

We do Nothing.

We simply do not participate. Non-participation, weaponized.

We weaponize Nothing. And then deploy it.

Take no shape and you provide no target.

One does not turn the other cheek to express submission. One turns the other cheek so 'They' have to look you in the eye as they raise the other hand. Our Humanity will get the work done.

That being said, my solution might not be for those that are overly fond of their meat wagons.



I am so sorry that I don't have any real suggestions for what we might replace our current system with. In a nutshell: If we are at a place where society can maintain Real Civilization (not the barbarism that we have been told is civilization; or rather that we, by consent, agree is civilization) then I say we seek out the world's best candidates for a balanced group of Philosopher Kings ala Plato.

This guy would have been an easy no-brainer, pick for my vote...

Pierre Bourdieu


en.wikipedia.org...

I would say that we are going to have to learn to trust one another again but somehow, I think if we get there, the trust will be implicit.

What kind of world do you want?

I have been asked this before, directly and indirectly over the years and my answer has changed, though the theme is probably consistent.

When I think about what I want the World to be like lately I think of this quote...

"Dogen studied with Master Rujing. One evening during the intensive summer training, in the first year of Pao-chang, 1225, Rujing shouted at a disciple, “When you study under a master, you must drop the body and mind. What is the use of single-minded intense sleeping!?”

Sitting right beside this monastic, Dogen suddenly attained great enlightenment. Immediately, he went up to the abbot’s room and burned incense. Rujing said, “Why are you burning incense?” Dogen said, “Body and mind have been dropped off.”

Rujing said,

“Body and mind dropped off. The dropped-off body and mind.”

Dogen said,

“This may only be a temporary ability. Please don’t approve me arbitrarily.”

Rujing said, “I am not.”

Dogen said, “What is that which isn’t given arbitrary approval?”

Rujing said, “Body and mind dropped off.”

Dogen bowed.

Rujing said, “The dropping off is dropped.”

www.mro.org...

That is my wish for a future world; that the dropping is dropped. It seems to me that the very first and the very last thing we must do is drop the dropping.

Thanks again.

I firmly trust in the fact that ‘we as a growing "Global" community’change after I change myself.
The structure itself is innocent - it is I who is the rebel.

I firmly trust in the fact that any worthwhile revolution only occurs within one self.

I would like to offer my ‘realistic fact based suggestion’ with a personal example. An example anybody reading here will have something in common with, I think:

It is based on a proposition that I have learned from Japanese masters who say “honour your enemy”.
Enemy can be substituted with any kind of perceived adversary.

My personal experience I would like to discuss here has to do with the antagonistic position that I sometimes come across here on ats.
It hurts and it sends me into turmoil, to read some answers.
Then I feel like attacked, as if I have an enemy, an adversary.
Then I know: this is my opportunity to stay focused within myself.
Stop blaming and feel sorry for myself.
Sometimes there is some valuable input in the statements, sometimes there isn’t, but there is always a valuable lesson to grow above my own negativity.

Not only receiving opinions
it’s also sending my own opinion to others.
It is a strange phenomenon, that I do have the best intentions in any reply, I am careful, but sometimes I only really grasp the extend of my input, after I hit the send-button.

That’s what I totally love about ats: that level, that provides me personal growth not only through information but also through self-recognition.

So, difficulties out there are not set to conquer and squash me but to give me the chance to improve myself and to grow from it. It is up to me to choose what I do.


An other example if I may, that clarifies more how I effect all:

We all make up tptb
Social engagement and responsibility is total and indivisible
If I balance myself, everything falls into balance

I think we all are familiar with the experiment that when we paint with watercolour and we have a clear glass of water, then drop even the smallest of brushes covered with colour even of the palest hue into that clear water and twirl, all of the water is effected.

I imgine all of us being water in a glass
we all make up the particles of the water

Now if the water is murky
I imagine that is because we as particles have all got some colour (or quality) in our hearts and our actions effect the water.

To the same degree that ‘darker shades of some particles’ cloud the water ‘clearing out one’s own shade as a particle’ will effect the water.

Every particle is blessed with the truth
The truth is inherent in all of us and access to this truth usually occurs when we focus on ourselves and not on others.

‘Will everybody ever really be 100% happy and satisfied with.......’ well, I guess that is the day that we all have achieved excellence. but before that there is the possibility of achieving personal excellence.

Thank you slayer for the invitation that we share our opinions constructively.

I have thought I would prefer life the way the Native Americans lived, at least the Dakota. Though I do understand the negatives of their culture, especially for women and the lack of modern medicine, which I'm a huge fan of. Sometimes I wish I could go back in time and experience the different cultures to see what would be best. But since that isn't possible, I try to live a life that is little and not so terribly materialistic. If I could I would live on an island with a moat filled with hungry gators and a drawbridge because some days people drive me crazy!

You certainly don't ask an easy question, slayer.... I think of the book Lord of the Flies when these kinds of topics come up and get disheartened because I pretty much know there is not a one good solution to the question you have posed. So, for me I am grateful to live where I live with the freedoms I do have and will do my best to ensure they stay protected for the future generations. That's the only legacy I can leave and maybe those future generations will figure out the answer to this difficult question.

There ya' go, Slayer making me think deep again.

It's dangerous for me because I risk getting a catch in my brain like you get in your back sometimes that hurts like heck and this kind won't let up 'til I stop thinking.

I think "morality" is nothing more than trying to do everything with love in it. Since I--or no one else--is likely to have a solution to this conundrum, I resort to the fantasy of Utopia.

I have met and socialized with folk from just about every major religion and persuasion there is. Embracing brothers and sisters of all ilk seems to me the natural order of things.

As a kid, I LOVED the idea of America as a melting pot. I truly believed we could all love our own cultures and learn from each other at the same time. I still want that. Extremists suck no matter what their philosophy. We're stuck with 'em though.

Here goes: My utopia consists of beautiful huts by the sea. Huts without doors where the children run and play and learn as they move freely thru all.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/87c47e6468e5.jpg[/atsimg]

The phrase, "It takes a village to raise a child" is not a cliché for Pacific Islanders. Children raised in Fiji, Tonga, and Tahiti are taught they are part of an extended family, one that works together for the good of the community. Tongans call this nofo a'kainga, which means everyone counts on one another.

Cooperation starts in the home, continues at the village level and on through to the country. Children are taught to respect everyone, especially their elders. In the Tongan household, the father is head of family. Children usually remain at home until they marry.
www.everyculture.com...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9ea340 3eb9e3.jpg[/atsimg]
And other than a lil' cannibalism (yes and war) every once in a while the sociological dynamics they successfully created fostered a community culture that strengthened their bond to one another:

...Polynesian tradition involved family and community life. The family extended to grandparents, aunts, uncles, and other relatives, as well as the village. Family members looked after one another, respected their elders, and shared with the community. When fishermen returned with their catch, they took what they needed and left the rest for others.
www.everyculture.com...

They seemed to be fine without TV and iphones:

Polynesians were noted craftspeople who built boats without nails. They had no system of writing. Instead, history and traditions were relayed through songs, dance, poems, and stories. For centuries, Pacific Islanders believed that gods controlled their lives.
www.everyculture.com...

And ya' gotta love this:

Centuries of island life are reflected in South Pacific legends that sometimes have some truth. According to an ancient Fijian myth, the sound of women singing lures massive turtles from the sea to hear their voices. The Calling of the Turtles is a reality that continues today. Turtles rise to the water surface to hear the singing of women villagers from Naumana on the island of Kaduva.
www.everyculture.com...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cf2ee17a1bcd.jpg[/atsimg]
Stuff like this would be the school curriculum:

Tongan proverbs relate wisdom based on the island people's reliance on nature. The proverbs include: "There is a silver lining in every cloud"; "You will know the expert navigators when it comes to a rough time in the ocean"; and "Treat your plantation well for you are not the last person to use it".
www.everyculture.com...

But, alas & sigh, of course, I dream and try to love here a little, there a little.

Some of you have posted some rather interesting replies.
It will take some time to read through them all and reply.

Let me take this opportunity to thank everyone who has replied thus far and kept it civil. This topic could have gone South fast.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by OldCorp
At their core, human beings are nothing but animals. We've put laws into place to keep the chaos to a minimum, but nearly everyone is always looking out for themselves and their immediate family; any association other than blood is quickly dissolved, and even then history is replete with sons murdering their noble father for the crown due to impatience or greed.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d419bb971b81.jpg[/atsimg]

I wonder how well hammurabi's code would work or apply themselves in our supposedly "Modern" World?

Well...Babylon hmmm. I'm not sure they got it right, but Hammurabi's code from your link would be a detterent, eh?

The code then regulates in clear and definite strokes the organization of society. The judge who blunders in a law case is to be expelled from his judgeship forever, and heavily fined.

The witness who testifies falsely is to be slain. Indeed, all the heavier crimes are made punishable with death. Even if a man builds a house badly, and it falls and kills the owner, the builder is to be slain. If the owner's son was killed, then the builder's son is slain. We can see where the Hebrews learned their law of "an eye for an eye."

If them Babylonians is gonna thumbs down a negligent builder I'm thinking the "Judge that blunders" should AT LEAST suffer the same fate.

Sometimes, I just feel like I am on the ignore list of everyone on ATS.

Second line.

reply to post by gwydionblack


Since I'm feelin' all sympathetic tonight..., I gave you a star. Sorry you're feeling ignored. That's terrible. I read your post. Your opinion was heard.

reply to post by gwydionblack


Did you say something, bro? I drifted off there form a second....

Nah, I just pretty much agreed with your first post, and had nothing I could add to it.

I think city-states, each it's own independent, autonomous, sovereign polity, with "free range" in between 'em is a grand idea. every body gets what they want on their own turf then, and no one extends their "law" to other folks' turf. Of course, it wouldn't be long before one city-state got the idea that it was necessary to take over another... then another.... then another until they got jerked up short, but then war is always gonna be with us for one reason or another, right?

It's just a matter of scale and reach. Smaller polities have less of both.

Originally posted by gwydionblack
Sometimes, I just feel like I am on the ignore list of everyone on ATS.

Second line.

I wasn't ignoring your post just trying to figure out a good way to respond.
That was very well written

To create an organisation and start playing their game.

One day our organisation will be big enough to finish them off.

One great way to start is this.

I would create a thread outlining all the rules, objectives and intentions of my organisation. Anybody that wants membership between now and the time where we make a physical headquarter gets it for free. That changes from the day we have a headquarters in a certain location. From that day on, membership will have to require background checks and tests. If he/she passes all and is proved "clean" (not a potential double agent), they get membership.

People with certain fields of expertise are especially welcome.

If my thread is successful we can go on to make our website.


This is merely my solution to this problem.

It's actually not complicated. Not at all. Each individual should strive to be more loving. That is the solution. The solution will never change. It will never be more complicated. There will never be a more clever, smarter or better way. We are in a process that never ends. You are actively participating in the process. If you want to see more goodness than be it. Simple. No one can bypass this basic requirement.

labeling the "evil" outside of ourselves is a way to avoid our part in the solution. Recognizing and resisting evil is part of the process, but it is not the whole of the process as you are (in a way) pointing out.

The solution is simple. If you want to be free and good, you do it for yourself right now. Most people prefer drama to reality though..

reply to post by DaddyBare


Ladies your attention please...Our secret has just been
revealed by this member here on ATS.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Admit it, you just wanted to make a thread so you can use those pictures

My thoughts on the PTB are simple. Follow the money. Money is the root of all evil. I think our future will be brighter when we learn to give up our addiction to money, only then can we be free.

And what's wrong with unicorns?! They real yo!

The problem posed could be considered a sort of psychological/psychoanalytical question.

Though my knowledge on such matters is -admittedly - relatively recent and somewhat limited, I wonder if it can be likened to the Id/Ego/Superego, Parent/Child/Adult and Victim/Persecutor/Rescuer dialogues?

"TPTB" would be the Superego, Parent and Persecutor

"We" would be the Id, Child and Victim.

"The solution" would be the Ego, Adult and Rescuer.

With that said, there is also a dialogue problem within each of us in our own states of Id/Ego/Superego, Parent/Child/Adult and Victim/Persecutor/Rescuer playing out our own Drama Triangles.

All of which leads me to conclude that finding inner, or "self", balance would be the first steps we need to take in order to solve the problem posed, before implementing the same approach to society at large.

Other than the observation offered, I can't think of a solution per se.

Love the thread, Slayer, you got my grey matter gooey

P.S To anyone with a more comprehensive knowledge of Psycholgy/Psychoanalysis, please do correct any of the above that has been mis-interprteted and/or misunderstood. Always willing to learn!

reply to post by DaddyBare


Daddybare,
Like how you always tell it like it is... Always enjoy reading your posts.