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Originally posted by firekoral
I can only get that you think that christianity is a "myopically limited" point of view (in which case thats fine thats your opinion, but last time i went to the optometrist i was diagnosed as far sighted.)
Being verbose may make others think you know what you're talking about and can even replicate relevance but not here. And for argument's sake, everyone has a myopically limited view on God, so we aint that different and your point is moot. unless ofcourse....You are God
You want to have a immortal daddy who you think takes care of you..... hey, many children have some fantasy friends, why not you or your neighbour, if it helps to improve your life.... I have no problem with that but never forget that the believes that people have make them vulnerable and that my friend is how you getting exploited by others who does not give a damn about what you believe in. I know this for a fact, because I do the same - I exploit people through their believes and FEARS! Do I feel bad about that? Absoultely not, I even enjoy it.
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” I think Gandhi was on to something there... Being unlike how their faith teaches many people to be isn't just limited to "Christians" but people of all different faiths who suffer from this as well. So please, I have nothing against true "Christianity" but rather those who call themselves Christians yet walk right by a homeless starving man on their way to a "Church Meeting or ice cream social" etc
Originally posted by whatsinaname
its quite simple really, firstly, you don't replace anything, you just allow people to be able to live their lives freely and go back to farming communities, getting rid of mass production at least in your community and reducing the utter crazyness of life back down to a manageable level.
as for morals, forget about it, its not going to work or happen. which is pretty much why if and when ww3 happens the above is somewhat of the plan when it comes to the safety of my family and friends. tptb will do whatever and probably not struggle to do so, so the key is to just ignore them and go native, with cannon, else everyone could be stuck in some foul place and 1984 would become a reality, and at that point you might as well shoot me in the face, if you don't get why read the book.
my opinions here, if you wanted a realistic look at things there it is, I don't care about the world as a whole and nor does anyone else, so leave the morals in the bag for the brains to poke at while they try to solve the problem with money.
ed: I don't mean that in a harsh way, but what can we really do for eachother in such a situation, when half of the people would be going crazy or looting. my plan includes neither of those.edit on 13/9/2011 by whatsinaname because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Drunkenparrot
To begin with, I agree with some of the previous posters who believe the "TPTB" are all of us, as in contemporary society and no more or less dangerous than your neighbors and co-workers.
I also believe "TPTB" are a necessary product of this stage in human social evolution.
The vast majority of the more radical opinions on the matter are kids and young 20 something's acting out their versions of teen angst and idealism, which is a right of passage into adulthood but preaching Anarchy and violent revolution is typically the diatribe of someone who has little clue and even less grasp on what makes a society work.
I cant help but feel those from western first world societies who feel the system is broken, their human rights are being somehow violated and they are somehow getting a raw deal are terribly ignorant about the history of human civilization.
The quality of living and the civil rights afforded to everyone posting in this thread are far superior to anything the human race has enjoyed in its entire history.
The concept of freedom is not the right to do whatever you choose without consequence, the concept of law is one of the most important tenants of civilization.
Freedom in the context of the state is the freedom to stand or fall on your own device, to voice your opinion publically without worry of consequence.
Freedom does not imply a guaranteed standard of living, free education, accessible healthcare...
That is the place of elected government which in turn necessitates bureaucracy....
The average human lifespan has gone from an average of twenty 5000 years ago to an average of thirty 100 years ago and is currently sixtyseven today.
All due to the medical, environmental and nutritional advantages of modern society and the system we have created aka "TPTB"
In time that will change because it has to, but for know the vast majority of the worlds people depend on it. If mechanized commercial agriculture were stopped tomorrow and people were forced to survive by their own devices billions would starve including most posting on this message board and their families.
How many proponents of returning humanity to an self sufficient agrarian life style are willing to sign the immediate death warrants of billions?
The strongest, most deeply rooted primal drives of everyone is self preservation and procreation of the species, we are hard wired and not likely to change anytime soon without radical social conditioning and forced medical treatments, so how many are willing to empower a government to enforce such policies?
The idea that returning to a aboriginal culture as an improvement to the world we live in today is a hollywood fantasy.
ATS poster mamabeth beautifully expresses an ideal held by many in this eloquent post romanticizing a way of life that never existed...
A great number of species were hunted to extinction by the early Paleoamericans. The bison, deer etc. survived because their populations were able to absorb and adapt to human predation, not so for the american camel, columbian mammoth or first horses (all of the modern horses in the America's were introduced by the europeans in the 1500's).
Killing for sport? Do people count? How about the massive scale of the blood sacrifice of the mesoamerican tribes which was often connected with sport or the territorial aggressions of the plains tribes warrior culture where it was a game for the strong to take what they pleased from the weak and individual status was measured in trophies like human scalps on the medicine pole?
Regarding wildlife, Just last month a Umatilla tribal member here in Oregon caused a bit of an uproar when he was caught shooting a federally protected golden eagle just to pluck its tail feathers in an ages old, time honored Native ceremonial tradition.
Call it what you will but I see no difference in killing something to spiff up your headdress or totem and killing something to spiff up a blank space over your fireplace. They are equally wasteful and disrespectful to the life of the animal.
Growing enough food to sustain your family through the winter without machinery or beasts of burden (remember, the europeans brought them) is miserable,back breaking work. It is also a gamble that without modern irrigation and pesticides you will have any crops to harvest.
Hopefully your water from a river is clean and pure, your taking your chances drinking from a lake and are playing russian roulette drinking from a pond. Modern chlorination and other water purification techniques protect us from with all manner of pathogenic bacteria.
Have you ever baked bread from scratch in your kitchen much less had to pick the weevils out of the grain before grinding the flour to prepare to bake bread that is hard as a stale pretzel because leavening bread with yeast was a european invention?
By making your own clothes you would be tanning hides for buckskin and stitching furs ( is it harmonious with nature kill something just to wear it?). You could embroider animal hyde to your hearts content but linen, i.e. woven fabric of any kind, was brought by the europeans as well.
You wouldn't be milking any cows, feeding any livestock (unless you count dogs as livestock) or canning any food.
Domestic livestock (cows,pigs,wool-bearing sheep, goats) and the idea of raising food animals arrived in the new world with the europeans, the pre-columbian natives did not keep so much as a chicken.
Canning is a modern convenience invented by the europeans. Smoking,drying,pickling and salting were the only options available to anyone prior to the 1800's
The reality is pre-columbian native life was harsh and brutal, and few died from old age. Most met their end through disease,infection, in childbirth and the at the tip of a spear. The average lifespan was 25 years, how many here are willing to trade 40 or 50 years off of their lives?
Barring a thermonuclear world war, asteroid impact or similar holocaust, I believe that something like the social utopia depicted in the Star Trek universe is our likely fate in the near term of the next few centuries.
The basic rationale being that shortly we will develop cheap sustainable energy and intelligent mechanization freeing humanity from the necessity of waging war to control finite resources and working for survival in turn allowing all of mankind to pursue greater endeavors (such as the evolution to a type 1 civilasation).
Originally posted by playswithmachines
reply to post by Unity_99
I'm with you, bro
I'm an atheist, and not even really social type of person, but i do recognise that we need to help & support each other in peaceful & mutual co-operation if we are going to survive the next 10 years.
@Darklord; Technology can help, free energy will solve most of the world's problems overnight, that's precisely why it's being supressed.
The new generation of scientists must & will learn that science is merely a tool, that can help or harm us, just like a hammer. We must learn to use it wisely, especially the technologies that are coming in the 'new renaissance'
This one's going to be big!
Originally posted by Desolate Cancer
reply to post by darkl0rd
Free energy, with free used in general way, can provide the basis for all those things you mention. With advanced energy creation and use we can power more advanced recylcing equipment and localize manufacturing, it can provide the grounding for which to build other technologies around.
So yes free energy by itself is of limited use, but when it is coupled with new and more advanced technologies then we are beginning to see a real solution.