Pope accused of crimes against humanity by victims of sex abuse

reply to post by Blanca Rose


maybe if the masses stand up and actually do something

Originally posted by UniverSoul
reply to post by Blanca Rose

 

maybe if the masses stand up and actually do something

Agreed. If the masses who attend masses would do it first, and hit the pocketbook of the vatican, then maybe there will be a chance that something could happen!

Originally posted by Blanca Rose

Originally posted by UniverSoul
reply to post by Blanca Rose

 

maybe if the masses stand up and actually do something

Agreed. If the masses who attend masses would do it first, and hit the pocketbook of the vatican, then maybe there will be a chance that something could happen!

A hard thing. Roman Catholicism is not a democracy, it is a theocratic monarchy...

Unfortuneatly, I think that the Vatican has too great a hold on the Western World. The Vatican Bank is one of the richest in the world for a start.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by JohnySeagull

 

Woohoo. The church is finally crumbling. The bible even mentions this, and I'm not religious.

Man, I am so happy to read that on a mainstream website.

Now they just need to show they are part of the Illuminati, not the Bavarian one, and how sodomy of Children is how they create mind slaves!!!

edit on 13-9-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-9-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)

hold your horses! as others have replied, there's a huge difference between filing a case and having that case dealt with. I would be very surprised if actually anything comes from this.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
reply to post by JohnySeagull

 

Excuse me? What makes this any different than any other time a case has been brought against a member of the clergy?

Is the ICC going to storm the Vatican and haul the Holy See into international court?

It's just more poor publicity against the Catholic Church, nothing more.

Poor publicity that that the catholic church brought on themselves by being one of the largest conspiritors of continuing pedophelia that the world has ever known. You can add brainwashing to the laundry list of charges as well.

Like it or not, the tide is turning against the catholic church. And it's not turning their way either. It's being turned by the common man, not the authorities, as evedenced in the article. That's a good thing because the common man is the entity that can affect positive change. If you don't want to stand up against a very negative and destructive authority, that's your peorgative, but don't sit there and try to tell people that doing something is having no effect while doing nothing is. That makes no sense.

I can understand that some people need religion. There are many people who need the comfort of knowing that something bigger than them is in charge. That there is some sort of meaning, purpose and structure in their lives. But that comfort shouldn't come at the expense of their children getting molested by the same people giving that comfort. That's not only wrong, it's sick.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
reply to post by JohnySeagull

 

Excuse me? What makes this any different than any other time a case has been brought against a member of the clergy?

Is the ICC going to storm the Vatican and haul the Holy See into international court?

It's just more poor publicity against the Catholic Church, nothing more.

Poor publicity that that the catholic church brought on themselves by being one of the largest conspiritors of continuing pedophelia that the world has ever known. You can add brainwashing to the laundry list of charges as well.

Like it or not, the tide is turning against the catholic church. And it's not turning their way either. It's being turned by the common man, not the authorities, as evedenced in the article. That's a good thing because the common man is the entity that can affect positive change. If you don't want to stand up against a very negative and destructive authority, that's your peorgative, but don't sit there and try to tell people that doing something is having no effect while doing nothing is. That makes no sense.

I can understand that some people need religion. There are many people who need the comfort of knowing that something bigger than them is in charge. That there is some sort of meaning, purpose and structure in their lives. But that comfort shouldn't come at the expense of their children getting molested by the same people giving that comfort. That's not only wrong, it's sick.

reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien


Indeed... So by your logic, I should be able to hold you accountable for every instance of an atheist murdering another person for their religious beliefs, correct?

Originally posted by TheLoneArcher
Unfortuneatly, I think that the Vatican has too great a hold on the Western World. The Vatican Bank is one of the richest in the world for a start.

Where did you get this information? I would love to see the details.

As far as I am aware the catholic church is close to bankruptcy.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
reply to post by JohnySeagull

 

Excuse me? What makes this any different than any other time a case has been brought against a member of the clergy?

Is the ICC going to storm the Vatican and haul the Holy See into international court?

It's just more poor publicity against the Catholic Church, nothing more.

I will tell you why it is different this time.

I have seen people stand up. People are not afraid anymore.

This summer the country I live in finally stood up to the vatican;
www.irishexaminer.com...

Then the vatican responded;
searchtopics.independent.ie...

And the Irish government responded again;
www.irishtimes.com...

I have witnessed my country finally stand up to the Vatican.
Now we are going to see this happen on a world stage.

People are not scared anymore.

That is why it is different. Very different.

Is this supposed to be a surprise ? If they let their priests or popes, get a girlfriend or have a wife, # like wouldn't be happening!

While it is in vogue to hate the Catholic Church and presume all her priests are pedophiles; while it is warm and fuzzy to be joined in chorus as we trash the institution and those people who have nothing to do with her abuses, while those who adhere to the big book of "Haters' Gonna Hate" score points for their zeal... I must call forth some facts to consider....

First the offense: Abuse of trust is unconscionable - but not criminal. Sexual abuse is criminal. Of the two the shame of the Church is the former, of her errant clergy the latter.

Second the culture: The tradition of the church judging and punishing her own became dysfunctional once the importance of the "image" of the church became of more value than the flock. This is an institutional disease (which affects far more institutions than just the Catholic church.)

Third "Litigancy": There is no desire for justice in most of these cases. They are about money from deep pockets. The crimes alleged here cannot be 'undone' nor the victims 'made whole' by application of money; but perhaps years of therapy and even then, it has more to do with the sensitivities of the victims than anything else. The attendant attorneys, however, are not looking for therapy for their clients... they are looking for 7-8-9 figure settlements - feeding on the victims' desire for punishment and retribution.

So why the ICC?

The International Criminal Court is a permanent tribunal to prosecute individuals for genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, and the crime of aggression.

It was founded on 1 July 2002 by treaty, (the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court,) and it can only prosecute crimes committed on or after that date.

The Unites States is not a member of that treaty, yet the US-based Centre for Constitutional Rights (CCR) is bringing this case.

The ICC can exercise jurisdiction only under the following limited circumstances:

• where the person accused of committing a crime is a national of a state party (or where the person's state has accepted the jurisdiction of the Court);
  
• where the alleged crime was committed on the territory of a state party (or where the state on whose territory the crime was committed has accepted the jurisdiction of the Court); or
  
• where a situation is referred to the Court by the UN Security Council.
  

It is also a court of "last resort": meaning it can intercede only where prior courts have been unable or unwilling to rule on the matter.



All of this information is shared here to allow you to better assess what it means. While I know that there are people who have been shielded from the social consequences of their actions, it appears that this court's acceptance of the case may have more to do with the 'revenue' the settlement will generate than the 'justice' we would hope it would engender.

There is no doubt that sex abuse cases are relevant past the 2002 limitation of the court's ability to prosecute... but really... can we not see this is not about reforming the church, rehabilitating the victims, (or criminals for that matter), or in fact anything other than legal theater for profit?

I want priests who are criminally culpable prosecuted as much as anyone does... but something tells me this is "Hate theater." Charging the members of the Holy See and the Pope is just public flummery to make an obtuse point, not a means to end the abuses that probably persist to this day in many places, not just including, but beyond, the church and her clerical jurisprudence.

reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes


Something already has come of this. It's gotten the attention of the MSM and, as a result, the attention of all the people who only take stock in news that come from the MSM. As I said in my previous post, the tide is turning. Don't expect a large amount of convictions of these "people" by the courts becasue you will be sorely disappointed.

Do expect though more and more people waking up to what the catholic church really is and turning away from them in growing numbers as each generation passes. It's happening before your very eyes and it's going to continue to happen. The death of this cult is on the horizon and, deep down inside, I think everyone knows it. It's just a matter of time now.

Originally posted by Maxmars

Charging the members of the Holy See and the Pope is just public flummery to make an obtuse point, not a means to end the abuses that probably persist to this day in many places, not just including, but beyond, the church and her clerical jurisprudence.

edit on 13-9-2011 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)

I beg to differ. It may be an obtuse point to the courts, but they don't matter in this case. The real point it's making is to the people of the world. Those who haven't woken up yet are slowly being nudged by news like this.

reply to post by JohnySeagull


Thank you for those links. It does my heart good to see stories like this. I'll do my part to help distribute them around the web.

reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien

We should prosecute all religious people for their crimes against humanity, hey you may not be a high up priest, but if you support a religion, i'm going to charge you for aiding and abetting, crimes against humanity.

That is the most ridiculous statement I've read in awhile. Since when are the followers of a doctrine responsible for what the leaders and other members of a congregation do?

On another note..if someone you voted for..was found guilty of crimes against humanity.. are you held accountable for voting for this person..not knowing that this was going to be one of their choices? Why could I not charge you for crimes.. in aiding abetting crimes against humanity for voting for this person?

Makes more sense you should be held accountable for doing that..than all the innocent people who try and practice their faith..but don't have much say as to who their priest, bishop or cardinals.and pope are.

Should all teachers be held accountable for aiding and abetting if one of their teachers is convicted child molesting in the school system..?
They support the system...and are a part of it..does that make them guilty by association?

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes

 

Something already has come of this. It's gotten the attention of the MSM and, as a result, the attention of all the people who only take stock in news that come from the MSM. As I said in my previous post, the tide is turning. Don't expect a large amount of convictions of these "people" by the courts becasue you will be sorely disappointed.

Do expect though more and more people waking up to what the catholic church really is and turning away from them in growing numbers as each generation passes. It's happening before your very eyes and it's going to continue to happen. The death of this cult is on the horizon and, deep down inside, I think everyone knows it. It's just a matter of time now.

If only I could join in your optimism. Unfortunately I can't.
I was observing people's reactions over here (in a small EU country with some pedo-priests scandals) when the news broke. While they were "shocked" when then learned about that pedo-bisshop, some months ago, on average they don't approve with the legal action that was announced in the MSM.

While you see more people "awake", I see a slow but sure return of the power of religions... the restoration is ongoing... as Zappa predicted way back in the 80ies: we're going for a theocratic fascism.

Personally I do not understand what would get anyone to worship the likes of this type of cult. I find it mind-boggling reading these type articles knowing the sheep keep comming for more. It is out there the world knows catholics love the little children..yet the sheep keep going back and bowing as they hand their innocent children to the animals. The blame needs to be broadened to include the ignorant parents that place the littleones directly into the lions den.

reply to post by gabby2011


In the beggining of catholic formation I would agree the innocent followers did not know. However many years,decades centuries later, yes the sheep know what is happening, it has been all over the medias for at least 30 or more years. so yes the adult followers are equally to blame for the mishaps of their children.

Originally posted by User8911

Originally posted by LightAssassin
Woohoo. The church is finally crumbling. The bible even mentions this, and I'm not religious.

That doesn't mean we should discard the fact that the devil is real, never forget that!

The devil was a tool, made up by religion in general in order to control the masses.

Never forget THAT.