The Microwave Oven: Is it actually hurting us? Likely so it appears...

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Microwaves can not affect DNA.

What's with all the thoughtless statements. Too many microwave meals perhaps. Electromagnetic radiation does indeed damage DNA. Heard of something called skin cancer?

Originally posted by neonitus
isnt this all psuedo-science? microwaves are 100% harmless.
what it does to food is debatable but im convinced its completely harmless.
what makes me laugh is the people who say they stand well back from the microwave when its switched on.
this just shows you know absoloutly nothing about how microwaves work.
pressing your face against the door would make no difference.

That's fine if it's your opinion, but I haven't seen any proof of that claim.

We have massive sets of resources both pro and con. Which studies do you pick and why? Why do you discredit the other studies, care to identify specifically which portions?

At least one person in this thread has provided extensive links and research that provides a counter-point of view on this topic and that is commendable and was what I was looking for in order to continue my research and hopefully so others will look into the matter as well.

Merely coming and saying everything is pseudo-science and then claiming it's 100% safe is just completely irrational. Nothing is 100% safe, that's just the facts of life.

"Relatively safe" is much more reasonable. Or if you are on the other side of the fence, perhaps "Relatively dangerous" would be reasonable as well.

Speaking in absolutes without any reasoning to back it up is pretty pseudo-scientific if you ask me.

Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Microwaves can not affect DNA.

What's with all the thoughtless statements. Too many microwave meals perhaps. Electromagnetic radiation does indeed damage DNA. Heard of something called skin cancer?

That is a big part of the controversy.

Some scientists claim it can, others claim it cannot. (Damage DNA).

The crux of the issue it appears to be over this issue "Can Microwave oven emissions cause covalent bonds to break?" Some think yes, some say no.

The problem is, that if indeed it does somehow cause covalent bonds between atoms to break , we humans do not have scientific understanding yet of the mechanism by which this occurs.

If it occurs, we have no idea how it could happen. This would actually make for an excellent field to conduct intensive research on because we could find out all kinds of science facts we may not know about yet. However getting funding for something like this would be pretty difficult since there are massive appliance corporations who may fear them (for obvious reasons). (?)

Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Microwaves can not affect DNA.

What's with all the thoughtless statements. Too many microwave meals perhaps. Electromagnetic radiation does indeed damage DNA. Heard of something called skin cancer?

Yes, Of course I have. It's primarily linked to excessive exposure to UV light, (the part of the spectrum right above visible light) and here's a little chart:




Perhaps you should be a little clearer on which part of the spectrum you are talking about? That part that causes harm to DNA is ABOVE the visible spectrum, starting with UV, and as the wave lengths get shorter, the more damage that is done. Microwaves, referring to the chart above, are very long in wave length, and quite harmless. Once you have factual information, as above, it makes a bit more sense, eh?

Funny that you would focus on the microwave when you simply could have gone all the way in your reasoning and asked yourself... is cooked food toxic?

It is scientifically known since the beginning of the 20th century that oooking food at high temperatures, for example grilling or barbecuing meats, can lead to the formation of minute quantities of many potent carcinogens that are comparable to those found in cigarette smoke, i.e., benzo[a]pyrene (cooking meats in a microwave oven for 2–3 minutes on the other hand reduces heterocyclic amine (HCA) precursors, which can help minimize the formation of these carcinogens).

The Maillard reaction was discovered in 1916, and typically occurs in all forms of cooking. This is the principle that develops the flavors we favor in food. In short, the Maillard reaction is not a single, but in fact a series, of reactions between proteins and carbohydrates. The reactions occur during storage at room temperature, as well as during cooking, with the rate of reaction accelerating as temperature increases. Maillard molecules are the precursor of carcinogenic compounds called "heterocyclic amines".

Add to that that cooking food destroys the fibers that hold onto water, which will slow down stomach emptying and regulates the digestion process, it destroys the enzymes present in raw foods that equally are of significant help in digesting the foods themselves once they are put into the human digestive system, and it destroys many of the vitamins and nutrients that our body needs.

Any doctor or dietary expert would of course agree that a raw fruit and vegetable diet is the basis of a healthy life.

Eighty million species on earth (about 700,000 of which are animals) feed on raw food. Only humans apply heat to what they eat. Humans on average as a race, die at or below half their potential life span of chronic illness that is largely diet and lifestyle related.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Druid42


Uhm, cd's have a thin wafer of foil inside them. Foil is not water, and it reflects the microwaves, causing the foil to super heat, and combust. Try anything with a LOW moisture content in a microwave, and it will burn.

Agreed. The point of me bringing it up is because it totally debunks the claims made that "Microwave ovens only affect water molecules" which is apparently not matching up with these videotaped experiments too well.

I suppose I was asking questions partially-rhetorically in that particular post, but answers are always good so thanks for replying.

I didn't know there was a thin wafer of foil inside them, thanks for teaching me something new!

what? that is all it is supposed to do when it comes to FOOD. whether or not bombarding metal(which has been warned against since the invention of the thing) doesn't debunk anything.
the claims you guys make is that somehow microwave radiation magically causes other things to food that you have zero proof of.
putting things in a microwave that you shouldn't isn't proof of anything, you aren't putting something in there that you should.

Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Microwaves can not affect DNA.

What's with all the thoughtless statements. Too many microwave meals perhaps. Electromagnetic radiation does indeed damage DNA. Heard of something called skin cancer?

no one is disputing that EMR does that, but microwaves are non-ionizing, they don't cause cancer.
cancer is a mutation of the genetics of a cell, microwaves are a non-mutagen radiation, while UV radiation is a mutagen causing radiation.
about the only thing microwaves will do is burn you.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Microwaves can not affect DNA.

What's with all the thoughtless statements. Too many microwave meals perhaps. Electromagnetic radiation does indeed damage DNA. Heard of something called skin cancer?

That is a big part of the controversy.

Some scientists claim it can, others claim it cannot. (Damage DNA).

The crux of the issue it appears to be over this issue "Can Microwave oven emissions cause covalent bonds to break?" Some think yes, some say no.

The problem is, that if indeed it does somehow cause covalent bonds between atoms to break , we humans do not have scientific understanding yet of the mechanism by which this occurs.

If it occurs, we have no idea how it could happen. This would actually make for an excellent field to conduct intensive research on because we could find out all kinds of science facts we may not know about yet. However getting funding for something like this would be pretty difficult since there are massive appliance corporations who may fear them (for obvious reasons). (?)

what scientists claim it can? non-ionizing radiation doesn't affect the structure of DNA or cells, they don't cause bonds to break that is why they are called non-ionizing radiation.
we don't? are you sure about that? i thought that was the point of all the fancy tech we have these days.
if we don't know know, how could we tell if the radiation causes bonds to break and label it as such?

i'm afraid you are just wrong, we do have an understanding, in fact we can now make an atom appear to be another atom entirely. we could i think turn lead into gold if we wanted.

Originally posted by Heliocentric

Add to that that cooking food destroys the fibers that hold onto water, which will slow down stomach emptying and regulates the digestion process, it destroys the enzymes present in raw foods that equally are of significant help in digesting the foods themselves once they are put into the human digestive system, and it destroys many of the vitamins and nutrients that our body needs.

yeah and eating some foods raw is not healthy for the human digestive system, it is not healthy to eat raw potatos for one.
also it takes longer for your body to break down cell walls, while cooked food gets the nutrients to your cells faster and uses less energy to do so.

Any doctor or dietary expert would of course agree that a raw fruit and vegetable diet is the basis of a healthy life.

maybe quacks, real doctors don't call them "raw", they just call them fruit or vegetables.

Eighty million species on earth (about 700,000 of which are animals) feed on raw food. Only humans apply heat to what they eat. Humans on average as a race, die at or below half their potential life span of chronic illness that is largely diet and lifestyle related.

yeah and it is why we have computers, you can thank cooking food for helping us get large brains. if we just ate uncooked food the meat would be harder to digest and the vegetables wouldn't be as easy to absorb.
fire helped move us to a smaller jaw which lead to a more expanded skull for a bigger brain. fire also made it easier to get the protein needed to power that bigger brain.
yeah and the advancements we have made have given us that lifespan, 200 years ago i doubt most people lived to be 65, much less 2000 years ago when the max age was 45, and before that 35.
we could go back farther, when it was 20.

Honestly I always thought the government or tptb or whatever have been exposing us to radiation forever with microwaves and more recently the japan disaster to "speed~ up" our "evolution" lol

This is totally anecdotal.

I remember back in the early 1980's living in a small rural community. The local appliances shop was not selling many microwaves because the women of the rural community were taught how to cook food properly. The women of the community were not accepting of the new gadget called a microwave... even though they had accepted washing machines, dryers and refrigerator/freezers into their homes.

What did the local appliance salesman do? He held weekly seminars during the evening for the women of the community to come into the store for 'microwave demonstrations'. At the demonstration the salesman would cook various foods and the women would taste it. As we know, taste is not the same as nutrition (see Snickers, see Coke, see the Big Mac).

Soon after these demonstrations we had a microwave in our house and so did a lot of other people. True story, an anecdote, but true. Maybe someone else out there recalls how microwave seminars changed the reluctant attitudes of consumers.

Originally posted by Heliocentric
Only humans apply heat to what they eat. Humans on average as a race, die at or below half their potential life span of chronic illness that is largely diet and lifestyle related.

That's not true. The human lifespan increased an average of 10 years when they first began to cook their food, this is considering that we are omnivores and were eating raw meat.

So scientists say barbecues cause carcinogens by burning fat and the outside of food. Ovens also burn the surface and the area food contacts the container. Uncooked food contains live mold, bacteria, parasites and viruses that cause many diseases and conditions. Now microwaves?

First they outlaw home vegetable gardens, now microwaves?

They came after the gardeners, and I did nothing since I didn't have a garden. Then they came after the microwaves...

Which nations owns the least microwave ovens per/capita ...that is the question.
Some say a virus/cancer can be awoken by a certain frequential event.

reply to post by muzzleflash


i read this a while back and afterward stopped using my microwave. Now i use it about once every couple of months....

Im far more concerned about the effects from Diesel fumes on our bodies than Microwaved food, until there is concrete evidence against it, I'll still use it on the odd occasion...although I've never cooked milk/egg dishes in one.

I have to go with the folks who state that microwaves are not a threat. I don't understand the fear that comes from this, especially when one considers all the many ways of dying and how we're already lasting too dang long as it is.

The thing is, Yes, we're VERY likely to get cancer, but often not until we are of advanced ages. www.disastercenter.com...

The fact that we live to such ages now indicates how far we've come with safety, medicine and healthier practices.
Still, it's pretty clear that by and beyond 70 - we're gonna fail as a life-form. Which is pretty good for the life-forms on this planet.

What strikes me as funny is, that people will "run" from their microwaves, fearing bacon and second-hand smoke and then hop in a vehicle with little to no concern that one tiny thing going wrong could take 'em out instantly.

I have often wondered about using a microwave for cooking, especially with plastics. Mainly because we are applying so much more energy than convential cooking and at high frequencies. I can't say i have looked into it but this automatically makes me think that with the complexities of the chemicals in food it could cause changes in them that normal cooking wouldn't. I also dont trust plastics, some of my "microwave safe" tubs have blistered which suggests to me that i'm getting that plastic in my food!

The problem i have is that i find it hard to trust science papers on either side of the arguement, since the majority of scientists (including myself) work for a company and companies always want results which reflect better on sales, or they have an agenda before starting the experiment so will only present what supports there view. Barely any scientists (only some academic scientists) still research things with an open mind to see the final results are and then present them with unbaised conclusions.

A friend of mine in his early 50's died from cancer not long ago, and he wouldn't have a microwave oven near him. So you can't blame the microwave oven in his case.

reply to post by demongoat


just to bring you up to speed as to where research is currently and where it is going.

1.Barnes, F. S. and C. L. J. Hu (1977). "Model of some nonthermal effects of radio and microwave fields on biological membranes." IEEE Transactions Microwave Theory Tech. 25: 742-746.

2.Brown, P. V., R. H. Lenox and J. L. Meyerhoff (1978). "Microwave enzyme inactivation system: electronic control to reduce dose variability." IEEE Transactions on Biomedical Engineering 2: 205-208.

3.Cheung, W. S. and F. H. Levien (1985). Microwaves made simple, principles and applications. Artech House, Inc. Denham, MA.

4.Cope, F. W. (1976). "Superconductivity - a possible mechanism for non-thermal biological effects of microwaves." J. of Microwave Power 11: 267-270.

5.Davis, C. C., G. S. Edwards, M. L. Swicord, J. Sagripanti and J. Saffer (1986). "Direct excitation of DNA internal modes by microwaves." Bioelectrochemistry and Bioenergetics 16: 63-76.

6.Debye, P. (1929). Polar Molecules. Lancaster, Lancaster Press.

7.Fleming, H. (1944). "Effect of high frequency fields on bacteria." Electrical Engineering 63: 18-21.

8.Fujikawa, H., H. Ushioda and Y. Kudo (1992). "Kinetics of Escherichia coli destruction by microwave irradiation." Applied and Environ. Microbiol. 58: 920-924.

9.Furia, L., D. W. Hill and O. P. Gandhi (1986). "Effect of millimeter-wave radiation on growth of Saccharomyces cerevisiae." IEEE Trans. Biomed. Eng. 33: 993-999.

10.Goldblith, S. A. a. D. I. C. W. (1967). "Effect of microwaves on Escherichia coli and Bacillus subtilis." Applied Microbiol. 15: 1371-1375.

11.Grandolfo, M., S. M. Michaelson and A. Rindi (1983). Biological effects and dosimetry of nonionizing radiation. New York, Plenum Press.

12.Grant, E. H., R. J. Sheppard and G. P. South (1978). Dielectric behaviour of biological molecules in solution. Great Britain, Oxford University Press.

13.Hoffman, P. N. and M. J. Hanley (1994). "Assessment of a microwave-based clinical waste decontamination unit." J. of Applied Bacteriology 77: 607-612.

14.Ishibashi, K., T. Sasaki, S. Takesue and K. Watanabe (1982). "In vitro phage-inactivating action of d-glucosamine on Lactobacillus phage PL-1." Agric. Biol. Chem. 46: 1961-1962.

15.Jeng, D. K. H., K. A. Kaczmarek, A. G. Woodworth and G. Balasky (1987). "Mechanism of microwave sterilization in the dry state." Applied and Environ. Microbiol. 53: 2133-2137.

16.Kakita, Y., N. Kashige, K. Murata, A. Kuroiwa, M. Funatsu and K. Watanabe (1995). "Inactivation of Lactobacillus bacteriophage PL-1 by microwave irradiation." Microbiol. Immunol. 39: 571-576.

17.Kashige, N., M. Kojima and K. Watanabe (1990). "Correlation between DNA-breaking activity of aminosugars and the amounts of active oxygen molecules generated in their aqueous solutions." Agric. Biol. Chem. 55: 1497-1505.

18.Kashige, N., T. Yamaguchi, A. Ohtakara, M. Mitsutomi, J. S. Brimacombe, F. Miake and K. Watanabe (1994). "Structure-activity relationships in the induction of single-strand breakage in plasmid pBR322 DNA by amino sugars and derivatives." Carbohydrate Research 257: 285-291.

19.Latimer, J. M. and J. M. Matsen (1977). "Microwave oven irradiation as a method for bacterial decontamination in a clinical microbiology laboratory." J. of Clinical Microbiol. 4: 340-342.

20.Lechowich, R. V., L. R. Beuchat, K. J. Fox and F. H. Webster (1969). "Procedure for evaluating the effects of 2450 MHz microwaves upon Streptococcus faecalis and Saccharamyces cervisiae." Applied Microbiol 17: 106-110.

21.Mei, W. N., M. Kohli, E. W. Prohofsky and L. L. Van Zandt (1981). "Acoustic modes and nonbonded interactions of the double helix." Biopolymers 20: 833-852.

22.Rosaspina, S., D. Anzanel and G. Salvatorelli (1993). "Microwave sterilization of enterobacteria." Microbios. 76: 263-270.

23.Rosaspina, S., G. Salvatorelli, D. Anazanel and R. Bovolenta (1994). "Effect of microwave radiation on Candida albicans." Microbios. 78: 55-59.

24.Sanborn, M. R., S. K. Wan and R. Bulard (1982). "Microwave sterilization of plastic tissue culture vessels for reuse." Applied and Environ. Microbiol. 44: 960-964.

25.Takashima, S. (1963). "Dielectric dispersion of DNA." J. of Molecular Biology 7: 455-467.

26.Takashima, S. (1966). "Studies on the effect of radio-frequency waves on biological macromolecules." IEEE Transactions on Biomedical Engineering 13: 28-31.

27.Takashima, S., C. Gabriel, R. J. Sheppard and E. H. Grant (1984). "Dielectric behaviour of DNA solution at radio frequency and microwave frequencies." J. of Biophysics 46: 29-34.

28.Vela, G. R. a. J. F. W. (1979). "Mechanism of lethal action of 2450 MHz radiation on microorganisms." Applied