Exporting US Tech

I had a question thats been bugging me for awhile. Why does the US insist on selling some of its advanced weapons technology to Tawian, when in all reality China will be acquiring it once it attacks the island.

I think you are underestimating Taiwan abilities to defend themselves. China has no chance to conquer the island.

The US should sell Taiwan some Weapon systems but not the really advanced ones. We keep those for ourselves China will not have an easy time trying to invade the island can you imagine the Chinese forces trying t cross on boats our jets and Taiwanese jests will have a turkey shoot with those boats and ships.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
The US should sell Taiwan some Weapon systems but not the really advanced ones.

Oh yes, what a great idea, we should do this immediately! OH! It just so happens we've been doing that for the past 40 years! *rolls eyes*

Your pride in American technological superiority should not be so carte blanche, everything has a weakness.

china wont attack now.. they arent ready. When they are ready, you best believe thats a sh*t storm you wont be able to stop, and they will then have all our tech we gave to taiwan via the spoils of war.

Originally posted by longbow
I think you are underestimating Taiwan abilities to defend themselves. China has no chance to conquer the island.

Care to explain such a ignorant comment?


Do you even known anything about the Chinese navy/army, other than what they show on FOX?

Taiwan could not stand China, they could win battle or two but not the war.

Even if America would help Taiwan with ships, they would not win the war.

Originally posted by Beast

Do you even known anything about the Chinese navy/army, other than what they show on FOX?

Taiwan could not stand China, they could win battle or two but not the war.

Even if America would help Taiwan with ships, they would not win the war.

But what if they destroy key railroad infrastructure and restrict oil supplies.

Originally posted by Beast

Originally posted by longbow
I think you are underestimating Taiwan abilities to defend themselves. China has no chance to conquer the island.

Care to explain such a ignorant comment?


Do you even known anything about the Chinese navy/army, other than what they show on FOX?

Taiwan could not stand China, they could win battle or two but not the war.

Even if America would help Taiwan with ships, they would not win the war.

Taiwan doesn't need noones help to win a conventional war. Yes China has many man, but how would they get to the island? And they not need to transport the also soldiers, also ammo, fuel, food is needed... Today the invasion would end in the sea beween the China and Taiwan.

I think you are underestimating Taiwan abilities to defend themselves. China has no chance to conquer the island.

Beast is right dude that's a pretty ignorant comment.

If the US and Taiwan thinks they can wage a war against the Chinese with just their carriers and the island they haven't got a chance. A few nuclear tipped Sunburns or Super Sunburns into the US carrier groups and there goes the US's primary ability to force power into the area. After that they'll have to rely on whatever of Taiwan the US and the Taiwanese still hold and from bases in Asia. And i'm pretty sure most governments in Asia don't want to get involved at all in this issue and simply won't take sides (I sure as hell know I dont want Australia involved especially being so close to china and well in range of their missiles). IMO I think a possible US/Taiwan vs China conflict will show finally the obsolescence of the carrier group in modern warfare.

For China to successfully penetrate the US Carrier group I think it will require a massive combined operation between the PLAF and the Chinese Navy because for the aircraft, destroyer or even submarine to get into firing range for the missiles it will require the Carrier group to be literally overrun with enemy forces. I think the best way to go would to use a extremely large amount of fighters and bombers to overrun the air defences of the carrier group while simultaneously launch a large-scale cruise missile strike at the carrier group with conventional warheads then use the submarines to try and attempt to get into range to strike the carrier group.

Or they could just use a crude medium range ballistic missile with a thermonuclear warhead .

Anyone got any information on Chinese Air Defense capabilities?? The latest generation Russian stuff is pretty damn lethal I was just wondering if they have it. It would also be interesting how the US would use their stealth capabilities in such a conflict, perhaps B-2s from Guam?

thanks,
drfunk

Originally posted by WestPoint23
The US should sell Taiwan some Weapon systems but not the really advanced ones. We keep those for ourselves

China will not have an easy time trying to invade the island can you imagine the Chinese forces trying t cross on boats our jets and Taiwanese jests will have a turkey shoot with those boats and ships.

you remember D-Day right?

a huge army of chinese CAN land on taiwan

Originally posted by Beast

Originally posted by longbow
I think you are underestimating Taiwan abilities to defend themselves. China has no chance to conquer the island.

Care to explain such a ignorant comment?

Sure, the ChiCOms lack the nesessary amphibious force to invade. Period. Now if you want to sabrerattle and say you will launch missiles at Taiwan so be it. I can basicaly classify you as one of two people:

1) Someone so brainwashed by the ChiComs propaganda that they have no clue as to thier own miliraty strength

or

2) Someone so deluded with thier own sense of Middle Kingdom worth that they would essentially cause genocide by burning the island down to bedrock

Which of these two sad, pathetic people do you want to be? Go ahead take your pick!

So why are you threatened by an independant Taiwan?

First of all, anyone who thinks that the Chinese would seriously consider using nuclear weapons in any conflict with Taiwan needs their head examined. They are trying to invade and occupy this island, not destroy it. And to think that they would risk a nuclear exchange with the US over Taiwanese independence is moronic.

Second, the Chinese DO NOT have anywhere close the naval sealift capability to get enough troops ashore to make a difference. The Chinese navy is dreadfully short of large, seaworth amphibious landing ships capable of making the trip to Taiwan, carrying enough troops to make a difference, and surviving the journey and assault.

Let us not forget that although China has more than 2 million troops, its equipment is still largely obsolete, and the average Chinese soldier in nothing more than a minimally trained conscript. Compare this with Taiwan's 400,000 troops, highly trained and motivated, equipped with the latest hardware and backed up by a huge reserve of well-trained personnel.

Were the Chinese to attempt an invasion of Taiwan by the sea, the PLA would need an invasion force that would dwarf the allied forces that landed in Normandy in 1944. The invaders would have to cross over 100 miles of sea, and then what was left of them would have to storm the most heavily defended coastline on the planet. It would be a massacre.

Historically, it is always easier to defend than to attack, and Taiwan practices defensive tactics regualrly. Equipped with modern western missiles and aircraft, the ROC defenders would most likely inflict so many losses initially, that the PLA would lose interest and back off.

The Chinese (and they know this, despite all their sabre-rattling) would be better off trying to impose a naval blockade, coupled with selective mining of Taiwanese ports and harbors. But even then, it is doubtful that the US would stand by and do nothing. The Chinese army and navy are mostly paper tigers, and they know it. The aquisition of a few Sovrenmeny class destroyers, sunburn missiles, and a squadron or two of flankers will not change that substantially.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
The US should sell Taiwan some Weapon systems but not the really advanced ones. We keep those for ourselves

China will not have an easy time trying to invade the island can you imagine the Chinese forces trying t cross on boats our jets and Taiwanese jests will have a turkey shoot with those boats and ships.

Here is a news flash: CHINA HAS MISSILES!!!! They do not need soldiers on rafts to take Taiwan. They can launch a couple hundred missiles and "erase" Taiwan with no human invasion.

The whole point of reunification is so China can absorb Taiwans economic capacity not destroy it. I wouldn't be surprised to see an arrangement in the future along the lines of HK.

China may have many missiles but in the end it is the humble foot soldier who holds the ground.

Originally posted by groingrinder
Here is a news flash: CHINA HAS MISSILES!!!!

They do not need soldiers on rafts to take Taiwan. They can launch a couple hundred missiles and "erase" Taiwan with no human invasion.

No WAY? No Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay? They want and need to take the island relativly intact. The want, no need the more modern Taiwanese economy folded into thier own. There never has been any doubt that they can burn the island down to bedrock, but for as brutish as they are, they are not stupid either.

Originally posted by Gwraith
I had a question thats been bugging me for awhile. Why does the US insist on selling some of its advanced weapons technology to Tawian, when in all reality China will be acquiring it once it attacks the island.

I don't see any invasion. Doesn't make sense. China views the world long-term. Over many, many years the Chinese economy will become so dominant Taiwan will become assimilated (ala Borg ).

Chinese economy goals The objectives for the year 2010 are to double the GNP of 2000 so that the people will enjoy even more comfortable lives, and bring a more or less complete socialist market economy into being. (Asiainfo.org)

The result has been a quadrupling of GDP since 1978. Measured on a purchasing power parity (PPP) basis, China in 2003 stood as the second-largest economy in the world after the US. CIA fact book . . . China has benefited from a huge expansion in computer internet use. Foreign investment remains a strong element in China's remarkable economic growth. Growing shortages of electric power and raw materials will hold back the expansion of industrial output in 2004 . . .groups in Burma and Thailand express concern over China's construction of 13 hydroelectric dams on the Salween River in Yunnan Province . . .Natural resources- coal, iron ore, petroleum, natural gas, mercury, tin, tungsten, antimony, manganese, molybdenum, vanadium, magnetite, aluminum, lead, zinc, uranium, hydropower potential (world's largest)

There will come a time when Taiwan either joins or is forced, but I believe that time is many years distant. China will first become the economic power and Taiwan will simply make a decision that it is in Taiwans' best interest to assimilate.

In the meantime the U.S. exports military hardware to Taiwan that probably 'filter' very quickly into China. China keeps the fear factor high enough for the U.S. to gladly dump recent military gear into Taiwan.

[edit on 25/8/2004 by PublicGadfly]

Originally posted by groingrinder

Here is a news flash: CHINA HAS MISSILES!!!!

They do not need soldiers on rafts to take Taiwan. They can launch a couple hundred missiles and "erase" Taiwan with no human invasion.

But China will not launch balistic misilles with WMD. That would be their end (embargo, US naval blockade ... ). The 500 balistic misilles with conventional warheads are not dangerous. Yes they could terrorize the people and destroy some infrastructure but they are not effective. Maybe 10 000 deaths , that's all.

And many of you are forgetting that Chinahas already a lot of countries around, who don't want them to become military superpower, - Japan, Taiwan, S.Korea, Vietnam, and maybe also India. And I think if China attacks Taiwan US and Australia would help them.

[edit on 25-8-2004 by longbow]

Originally posted by PublicGadfly

Originally posted by Gwraith
I had a question thats been bugging me for awhile. Why does the US insist on selling some of its advanced weapons technology to Tawian, when in all reality China will be acquiring it once it attacks the island.

I don't see any invasion. Doesn't make sense. China views the world long-term. Over many, many years the Chinese economy will become so dominant Taiwan will become assimilated (ala Borg

).


[edit on 25/8/2004 by PublicGadfly]

Resistance is futile Taiwan good analogy with the borg as they will no doubt assimilate any US tech they find when they take over Taiwan just like the borg.

Australia ? why?
whats the point?
they pose no threat to china and vice versa.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Australia ? why?
whats the point?
they pose no threat to china and vice versa.

Why did Australians fight in Vietnam? RIGHT NOW the China poses no threat to Australia, but what in the future? I think that in case of Taiwan-China war, when US would be involved, the Australias would be involved too (maybe only some ships but still).

[edit on 25-8-2004 by longbow]