Geoengineering Trials Get Under Way

reply to post by intergalactic fire


Thank you for that information, there intergalactic fire!

According to your posts, this mad attempt to engineer the climate then could
be totally in vain, a waste of money, time and resources.

Gee, I wonder why they would ignore that science?
Could it be, that they have the public almost duped, and
need to milk them for more tax's? You know, carbon tax and all of that?

reply to post by burntheships

Unless you consider spraying water to be a mad attempt to engineer the climate there is no evidence that such thing is being done.

The science isn't being ignored. It's interesting but in the words of the lead scientist:

But, Kirkby adds, those particles are far too small to serve as seeds for clouds. "At the moment, it actually says nothing about a possible cosmic-ray effect on clouds and climate, but it's a very important first step," he says.

www.nature.com...

Nothing conclusive, only that cosmic rays can produce aerosols. Aerosols too small to produce clouds. Aerosols far smaller than the dust and salt spray which are perfectly capable of producing clouds.

See...they're studying it. In your mind that would seem to be a bad thing?

Originally posted by burntheships

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by burntheships
Now, the race will be on to prove that aluminum and barium could adversly affect human health,
now that its out in the open they may move ahead with it.

Isn't this thread about spraying seawater, as a study for the possibility of spryaing sulphur dioxide?

Once again, from the OP...I know it must be hard to come to grips with, you have been betrayed.

Airplanes! You know...modified 747s!

I know it is hard for you to understand what yuo write - but the 747's in the link you posted in hte OP were about spraying sulphur dioxide -

But the option that is taken most seriously is altogether grander in conception and scale. The scheme proposes nothing less than the transformation of the chemical composition of the Earth's atmosphere so that humans can regulate the temperature of the planet as desired. Like volcanic eruptions, it involves injecting sulphur dioxide gas into the stratosphere to blanket the Earth with tiny particles that reflect solar radiation.

Various schemes have been proposed, with the most promising being adaptation of high-flying aircraft fitted with extra tanks and nozzles to spray the chemicals. A fleet of 747s could do the job.

www.guardian.co.uk...

So, again - what has Aluminium & barium got to do with it?

and you never did answer my question as to whether you think all the research into the effects of climate change has finished now??

BTW why would you think I have been betrayed??

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by burntheships

 

Unless you consider spraying water to be a mad attempt to engineer the climate there is no evidence that such thing is being done.

Phage, usually your more comprehensive, its odd your stuck on only the first lines of the
article. I know you would not purposely ignore the fact that they plainly state
they will proceed further.

reply to post by burntheships


No they don't - they say they MIGHT proceed further - IF it succeeds.

From your OP:

If it succeeds, a larger-scale version could one day pump sulphate aerosols into the stratosphere, creating a sunshade that will offset the greenhouse effect

Please don't make statements as fact when they are not true!

Originally posted by burntheships


Phage, usually your more comprehensive, its odd your stuck on only the first lines of the
article. I know you would not purposely ignore the fact that they plainly state
they will proceed further.

No it doesn't. It says this:

If it succeeds, a larger-scale version could one day pump sulphate aerosols into the stratosphere, creating a sunshade that will offset the greenhouse effect.

Unless you think you think "could one day" plainly means "will".
www.newscientist.com...


edit: What he said.

Originally posted by Phage

If it succeeds, a larger-scale version could one day pump sulphate aerosols into the stratosphere, creating a sunshade that will offset the greenhouse effect.

Unless you think you think "could one day" plainly means "will".
www.newscientist.com...

They have every intention of proceeding. Yes, I think in this case "one day"
equals out to "will".

reply to post by Phage

Phage,
If you're interested?
www.sciencebits.com...
www.sciencebits.com...
Due to these experiments we are getting a bit closer in understanding ice ages and climate change.
For me this confirms my thought on Al Gore.

Well, they wouldn't be trying these idiotic and dangerous stunts if we collectively all agreed to start doing something concrete about Global Warming. Want someone to blame for this insanity? Try the oil companies who've spend countless billions trying to convince people that there IS no problem - just shut up and keep burning gas folks! Screwing with the atmosphere of our planet in the hopes that 'maybe' it may work is no solution. "GM crops will eradicate hunger on the planet!" Remember that little nugget of corporate nonsense too?

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by intergalactic fire

 

Thank you for that information, there intergalactic fire!

According to your posts, this mad attempt to engineer the climate then could
be totally in vain, a waste of money, time and resources.

Gee, I wonder why they would ignore that science?
Could it be, that they have the public almost duped, and
need to milk them for more tax's? You know, carbon tax and all of that?

edit on 12-9-2011 by burntheships because: (no reason given)

Have you ever thought that perhaps it's you who have been duped? Duped by the endless propaganda bankrolled by the big oil companies who don't want to see an end to their mega profits? Profits that would disappear for good if an alternative to oil energy is pioneered? Sure, they'd rather have you believe it's a conspiracy by the government to tax you for something you don't need. But that's just the oil companies playing the 'ol 'double-think' con game...

At this point I am not sure what to believe. Remember that british university that got caught manipulating data to make a strong case for global warming? If scientists are willing to cook the books for attention it makes you wonder what their true motives are.

Now I am not saying humans play no role in global warming, but what percentage is man made and what percentage is beyond our control. I have heard the theory that the sun is in a strong turbulent phase thus sending more heat our way and occasional bursts of energy called flares so perhaps this is the number one reason for the melting glaciers in antartica and greenland that everyone seems so concerned about. [sarcasm]Maybe nasa should declassify the relevant data so that the hypocritical greenpeace activists stay off industries back[/sarcasm]

Industry is necessary but it should be nationalised imo. Private companies have no business running nuclear powerplants, oil exploration and drilling, gas exploration and drilling. They take too many shortcuts in the name of profit and cannot be relied upon.

reply to post by burntheships

And this is a much bigger threat to this planet than global warming ever was.
We are in fact moving towards a ice age and here they want to even spray the atmosphere with aerosols to cool it even further...

Originally posted by jimbo999
Have you ever thought that perhaps it's you who have been duped? Duped by the endless propaganda bankrolled by the big oil companies who don't want to see an end to their mega profits? Profits that would disappear for good if an alternative to oil energy is pioneered?

"They" wont get rid of oil untill they have another way to enslave us. Hence...
Carbon tax via Milking the Climate Cash Cow.

Sure, they'd rather have you believe it's a conspiracy by the government to tax you for something you don't need. But that's just the oil companies playing the 'ol 'double-think' con game...

I would strongly suggest your educate yourself by reading the links I provided here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You see, "they" are all one big they. The idea of Big Oil vs The Environmentalists these days
is all but a front, with a handful of honest scientists that dare to speak the truth about
Global Warming Hysteria, led by the Poster Boy Al Gore.

www.washingtontimes.com...

24 Hours of Reality, a worldwide, live streamed event on September 14-15.

During the 24 Hours of Reality event, people all around the globe living with the impacts of climate change will connect the dots between recent extreme weather events — including floods, droughts and storms — and the manmade pollution that is changing our climate. From Tonga to Cape Verde and Mexico City to Alaska, the event will feature scientists, celebrities, business leaders and concerned citizens, along with former Vice President Al Gore. It will be broadcast live online over 24 hours, in 24 time zones and in multiple languages. newsbusters.org...

newsbus ters.org

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/190a1b27dec8.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by pianopraze
EVEN THE SCIENTISTS say this is a LAST CASE SCENARIO...

They list MANY many ways that this could cause more harm than good.

1. There are lots of disease particles floating up there that would bond with aerosols and come down causing untold harm to people, animals, and plants.

2. There is no way to accurately predict all the ramifications of introducing aerosol particulates on the ecosystems of both the ocean and the land.

Great information there again, Piano!

Just those two reasons alone should be enough to stop these mad men from spraying chemicals into
the atmosphere.

Let alone the fact that they are hell bent on this scheme has a lot more to do with money
than a care of the planets environemental health.
Hoaxes

A high-ranking member of the U.N.'s Panel on Climate Change admits the group's
primary goal is the redistribution of wealth

and not environmental protection or saving the Earth.
www.investors.com...

edit on 13-9-2011 by burntheships because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
At this point I am not sure what to believe. Remember that british university that got caught manipulating data to make a strong case for global warming? If scientists are willing to cook the books for attention it makes you wonder what their true motives are.
.

Exactly. Thanks for your comments! And, they are still doing this today!

Another IPCC prediction fails


In a paper published in Geophysical Research Letters of the American Geophysical Union (AGU) earlier this month, climate researchers have found that another prediction in the UN’s IPCC reports — what Al Gore likes to call “settled science” — is simply wrong, and that IPCC’s predicted rise in sea level over the next century is likely not going to happen.

First let me quote from the AGU’s own description of the paper, sent out to reporters to highlight important new findings:

With the power to drown low-lying nations, destroy infrastructure, and seriously affect sensitive
coastal ecosystems, sea level rise may be one of the most readily apparent consequences of global warming that is already under way. However, the sources of the rising waters, and the dynamics driving them, are not so clear. Melting land-locked glaciers, shrinking ice sheets over Greenland and Antarctica, and the ocean’s thermal expansion will all play a part, but the expected contribution from each of these sources is still up for debate. Previous studies have suggested that thermal expansion driven by rising sea surface temperatures will account for up to 70 percent of sea level rise in the near future, but research by McKay et al. suggests this may be a drastic overestimate.www.agu.org...

What McKay et al. found is that the thermal expansion of the oceans actually contributed less than 1 percent of sea level rise during the last ice age., which means that the Antarctic ice sheet had to have contributed the bulk of the water for the almost 20 feet of sea level rise that occurred.

The problem this poses for modern predictions of sea-level rise is that the Antarctic ice sheet today does not appear to be melting. Thus, in order to produce the end-of-the-world scenarios that the global warming scientists like so much, the IPCC scientists assumed that the thermal expansion of the ocean would contribute most of the sea-level rise. behindtheblack.com...-11464

IPCC report:


In all scenarios, the central estimate for thermal expansion by the end of the century is 70 to 75% of the central estimate for the sea level rise. www.ipcc.ch...

Originally posted by juleol
reply to post by burntheships

 

And this is a much bigger threat to this planet than global warming ever was.
We are in fact moving towards a ice age and here they want to even spray the atmosphere with aerosols to cool it even further...

I would give you 100 stars if I could for that! Thank you!
To qoute a famous genius from here on ATS, Zorgon...

Originally posted by zorgon

HOUSTON We have a problem!!

Why on Earth are they even worried about Global Warming when the next Ice Age is just around the corner literally? I have posted this before but its relevant

Lake Vostok... a fresh water lake deep beneath the ice in Antarctica, kept from freezing by geothermal vents, has been buried by the ice for about 420,000 years. So what? Well scientists have been taking core samples, and like tree rings, each layer in the ice shows what the Earth's temperature was in a given year... by how thick the ice is...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e8bf7ab3f8d8.jpg[/atsimg]

Not going to go into detail here will do a thread on this but the point is what the data from the core samples shows...

Looking at the graph below, there have been six periods in the last 415,000 years when global temperature exceeded today’s temperature by as much as nine degrees. 10,000 years ago, the global temperature was five degrees higher than today.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by burntheships

please some one tell me how they are going to pump water up a kilometre high pipe ?

i am sure i remember being taught at school that there is a limit in height that water can be pumped
in one go ,
now i left school in 1963 so my memory may not be as good as i thought .

reply to post by tom.farnhill


Yes, well I really wish I could say that this was a sad joke, but unfortunately,
these men are planning on doing this, and they have it all set up already to proceed,
far beyond the water.

Let me share with you a photo from the publications of The Royal Society,
and The Spice Panel, the mad men who are doing this.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0e49cc2d7fc7.jpg[/atsimg]

Before the full-sized system can be deployed, the research team will test a scaled-down version of the balloon-and-hose design. Backed by a £1.6m government grant, the team will send a balloon to a height of 1km over an undisclosed location. It will pump nothing more than water into the air, but it will allow climate scientists and engineers to gauge the engineering feasibility of the plan. Ultimately, they aim to test the impact of sulphates and other aerosol particles if they are sprayed directly into the stratosphere.

If the technical problems posed by controlling a massive balloon at more than twice the cruising height of a commercial airliner are resolved, then the team from Cambridge, Oxford, Reading and Bristol universities expect to move to full-scale solar radiation tests. www.guardian.co.uk...

gow.epsrc.ac.uk.../I01473X/1

www.newscientist.com...

www.newscientist.com...

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I think we just have to forget (man-made) global warming and don't use that word, but rather use climate change. This has been happening for millions of years and we humans play a small part in it. Our co2 emissions can't be the cause of major climate change, such as warming or cooling. As shown in previous ice core data on co2 levels in the atmosphere.

The paper talks about a link between climate change and cosmic rays.
From other papers i read they link it to solar activity, where solar winds affects the amount of cosmic rays that helps the production of cloud cover. From what i understood from it, solar wind causes some sort of 'stop, filter, change' in cosmic rays, so in times when solar winds are at a minimum, more cosmic rays can come through which stimulate the formation of clouds which could lead to a cooling effect.

So why dont we see every 11 years a cooling?
I think this has to do with the amount of cosmic rays, so our position in the milky way.
This has been studied by different scientist, Cosmic rays are more concentrated within the spiral arms of the milky way.
Although later studies don't support this theory no more.
I don't count that theory out for some reason, It's really difficult to make a good and reliable model of our galaxy. It just needs more study.

Although the paper on "cosmic rays may drive the climate" doesn't yet prove the direct effect.

As Phage quoted

But, Kirkby adds, those particles are far too small to serve as seeds for clouds. "At the moment, it actually says nothing about a possible cosmic-ray effect on clouds and climate, but it's a very important first step," he says.

The SKY-experiment says:

The SKY experiment unequivocally demonstrates that more cosmic rays would imply more condensation nuclei in the atmosphere. In many circumstances, it is reasonable to expect that more of the small condensation nuclei would also imply more of the larger cloud condensation nuclei which form the seeds of clouds. Namely, there would be a link between atmospheric ionization (i.e., cosmic rays flux variations) and climate, in regions devoid of other condensation seeds (such as dust over land).

This is from wiki on the results of the CLOUD-experiment:

They show that vapor traces, assumed until now to account for aerosol formation in the lower atmosphere can explain only a tiny fraction of the observed atmospheric aerosol production. The results also show that ionization from cosmic rays significantly enhances aerosol formation

Is this the same as what Kirby said?
I'm having difficulties in understanding the results now.
Someone clear this out for me.

For now i know that these experiments have to continue and will reveal new options and facts on climate change.
The balloon experiment can clear some things out, waiting out the results.

Originally posted by jimbo999
Well, they wouldn't be trying these idiotic and dangerous stunts if we collectively all agreed to start doing something concrete about Global Warming. Want someone to blame for this insanity? Try the oil companies who've spend countless billions trying to convince people that there IS no problem - just shut up and keep burning gas folks! Screwing with the atmosphere of our planet in the hopes that 'maybe' it may work is no solution. "GM crops will eradicate hunger on the planet!" Remember that little nugget of corporate nonsense too?

Please educate yourself. Try to read up on past history and you will see there is absolutely no significant link between co2 and global temperatures.
The only so called evidence they have are their flawed computer models that dosent really simulate anything since there is still so many unknowns when it comes to climate system.

You dont have to go back far to find higher global temperatures and lower ice extent levels. The problem is that a bunch of politicians have decided that the average over last 3 decades is what is considered normal even though climate cycles work in longer time periods.

How can you explain it being warmer several times throughout the holocene period even though co2 was at pre industrial level?
Also maybe it has something to do with the fact that we have gone through the strongest solar cycles in 8000 years over the last few decades? Past history shows there is a link between grand solar maximums and so called global warming periods. Global cooling periods and little ice age also all coincidences with grand solar minimums.
Now that solar activity is back to lower than normal i expect temperatures to come down over the next 10-15 years.

If you look at the long term trend instead of just the last decades you will see that earth is infact cooling:

The real climate driver is a combination of milankovich cycles and solar activity. Solar activity seems to mainly affect climate over decades-century while milankovich cycles is the cycles responsible for interlglacial and glacial periods. We are currently due for a ice age according to the milankogich orbital parameters.
What we should prepare for is the coming ice age that could begin in anywhere from decades-1000 years or so.
These ice ages have come and gone like clockwork over the last million years:


When this happens most of humanity will be WIPED out. North America and Europe will be buried under a thick sheet of ice and only the low latitude regions will be liveable.