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Saudi Arabia threatens split with US if Obama vetos Palestinian statehood bid

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posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 



I repeat it once again:
How does giving the Palestinians statehood recognition while they are completely under Hamas' control, will lead them anywhere?

Hamas only controls Gaza, not 'ALL" Palestinians as you suggest..
Once given statehood I'd say they'd hold elections and then you'd have something to gripe about IF Hamas won..




posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 03:47 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


how come no one understands that stuff?

they got it great as an "occupied" territory! tons of money and face time with the press.

as a nation, they can't play the oppressed card anymore.

no sympathy from the idiot world.

i bet israel wants them to get the vote!

make things a lot simpler.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 03:56 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 



I repeat it once again:
How does giving the Palestinians statehood recognition while they are completely under Hamas' control, will lead them anywhere?

Hamas only controls Gaza, not 'ALL" Palestinians as you suggest..
Once given statehood I'd say they'd hold elections and then you'd have something to gripe about IF Hamas won..

Elections? Hah! They have executed their opposition in streets to the eyes of many, what makes you think they will even consider elections?



And you know what, even IF they will consider, they are obviously going to win any election against anyone in Gaza. I believe this will happen mainly because of people who are afraid to die when voting against Hamas. See, it's kinda hard voting AGAINST someone with an AK47 that forces you to vote for Hamas.
I bet the only vote that did not went for Hamas, was by Hamas themselves, trying to show there is any democracy in their rigged elections.

Rest assured, if Hamas will not be in power, I will be the first to say Gaza deserves to be independent. Until that happens (Hamas losing power? Sounds like a fairytale), it is you who needs to look for something to gripe about, as they are in power and it doesn't look like it's going to change.
edit on 13-9-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 

how come no one understands that stuff?

People get over emotional on subject like these. For all they care, Hamas could be the most barbaric ruling force in the universe - as long as they are opposing Israel it's all sugar and candies.

It's either that or they are really stupid for not looking into the stuff they support.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 04:13 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


It is NOT just Gaza that makes up Palestine..

Seems even when someone answers your question you didn't really want an answer anyway..

Your mind is made up, Hamas bad, Israel Government good..

Many disagree.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 
It is NOT just Gaza that makes up Palestine..

Seems even when someone answers your question you didn't really want an answer anyway..

Well what kind of answer is that then? What is it implying? You are simply stating something with unclear meaning.

Is the meaning that once the Palestinians receive statehood recognition Hamas will no longer be in power? Or what? Be clear, use comprehensive language and your answers will satisfy anyone.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 04:24 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 



Well what kind of answer is that then? What is it implying? You are simply stating something with unclear meaning.

Is the meaning that once the Palestinians receive statehood recognition Hamas will no longer be in power? Or what? Be clear, use comprehensive language and your answers will satisfy anyone.


What a joke..
You leave out the part of my post that says they would hold elections and then ask me to answer you??

What kinda propaganda you running.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 04:30 AM
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Take a look at the top of the page honey, I have already addressed the claim about elections.

ONCE Hamas will truly be out of power, as I said, I will be the first to say let the Palestinians have their independence. Seeing as they are not out of power even one tiny bit, as they control Gaza to a full extent and ALL of the militants (which control the West Bank, eg: the other part of "Palestine") are submissive to their whims, they are currently in complete control over the Palestinian entity in Israel.

Furthermore, democracy don't mean much in the eyes of Hamas. The only democracy they stand for is 'he who got the guns controls the population'. How else would they be able to execute their opposition members otherwise? Democracy is like acid for them.

Anything further you'd like to add?
edit on 13-9-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 04:39 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


Yeah who controls Hamas??

I have my opinion on it, what's yours?



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 04:39 AM
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If Øbama sinks the Statehood for the Palestinian peoples... the whole of the Arab Peninsula should close their Diplomatic ties with DC/Washington for a week at first & subject to future Embassy closings...

Peace Prize receipient my butt-can
the man is a joke & likely favors himself as a cool Sammy Davis Jr personality
edit on 13-9-2011 by St Udio because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


Yeah who controls Hamas??

I have my opinion on it, what's yours?

Wow, lol, am I mistaken or are you now claiming Israel controls Hamas?

Hahahah this is becoming one of the funniest arguments ever.

Seeing as I am done with you, based on your defeat (Claiming Israel controls Hamas is admitting defeat in this argument, seriously. There is no worse defense statement than that), I will now repeat my original question that remained unanswered:

How does giving the Palestinians statehood recognition while they are completely under Hamas' control, will lead them anywhere?
edit on 13-9-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 04:51 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


Sure mate, you win..


Now go back to blaming Hamas for everything..

Funny thing is though, the situation with Israel and Palestine has been the same for many decades..
How long have Hamas been in power?
What was your excuse prior?
What will be your excuse if they are defeated at an election?

There is ALWAYS an excuse, Hamas is merely the current one.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 05:00 AM
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As opposed for your accusations for everything?
Israel suffers from rockets - False flag!
US decides to veto something - Israel controls US!
News station does not report badly of Israel - Zionists took over that station!
Hamas is acting like a bunch of goons - Israel controls Hamas!

You took accusing stuff into a whole different level. And right now you took it even further to point of being downright stupid when you accused Hamas of taking orders from Israel.

This is the third time I'm saying this - If Hamas loses their power, let the Palestinians have their independence.

Do note that while you're accusing me of accusing Hamas for "everything", I am positively sure that IF a following Palestinian government (not Hamas) will make the same mistakes Hamas has, you are most definitely going to rush at their defense and upon losing your arguments you will claim that said government is under Israeli control.

Are we done yet? I sure think so. However I do know that even after you have been pummeled in this argument you are going to do your best to divert the subject of discussion, twist words and try and make my main question (you know, the one that got you in this deep hole) go away. However, it will not.

How does giving the Palestinians statehood recognition while they are completely under Hamas' control, will lead them anywhere?

Anyone that claims the Palestinians should receive their independence fast and now should answer that to atleast base his claims.
edit on 13-9-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 



How does giving the Palestinians statehood recognition while they are completely under Hamas' control, will lead them anywhere?

Anyone that claims the Palestinians should receive their independence fast and now should answer that to atleast base his claims.


You're a little full of yourself mate..
Your OPINIONS pummel no one..

Firstly, I have condemned the actions of Hamas on many occasions and yes, it almost seems like they are working for Israel..

Having said that, ANY people have a RIGHT to defend themselves from an INVADING force and that is exactly what Israel is..

ALL actions by Hamas could be considered in that vein..
Now you'll go on about attacking innocent women and children and I can say Israel have attacked many times more..
They are BOTH guilty of that though Israel is by far worse given numbers..

Now, I will only discuss the thread topic from now on..



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 

You're a little full of yourself mate..
Your OPINIONS pummel no one..

My opinions so far have been supported by evidence whereas your's have not. Then again, your opinions can barely be called opinions for their lack of consistency.


Firstly, I have condemned the actions of Hamas on many occasions and yes, it almost seems like they are working for Israel..

This is what I'm talking about. What kind of opinions are these?
How can you, at the same time, condemn Hamas yet rush to have a statehood recognition once they are in complete control over the Palestinians? Not just Gaza, their fractions control the actions of militants in the West Bank aswell. Seeing as there is no real political power in the West Bank, the only ruling factor there is the militant one, and that is under Hamas' control. So yes, it is safe to say Hamas is controlling the entire Palestinian entity in Israel.

What reason do you have to believe that they are working for Israel? Oh yeah, the fact that they make every possible error in being a governing power? The fact that their iron fist rule is so horrible it almost seems like it is being orchestrated by someone else? Well, it's not being orchestrated by anyone else than the head of Hamas. They are just that - one of the worst ruling factors the world has ever seen. From stealing aid, to operating their militants from civilian neighborhoods, to brainwashing kids into suicide bomb in Israel, to execute their opposition members in the street so everyone can see who the 'boss' is - they are downright a pitiful excuse for human lives, each and every one of them. Are these the bunch of hooligans you want to give the present of being a government to? These mad men will lead every last of the Palestinian people into doom.
I can't understand how anyone that wishes the Palestinians a happy ending will want them to have their own independent country which is led by Hamas under conditions that make it impossible to overthrow them or elect them out of office. It's simply digging your own grave even further.
You fail to realize that, and choose to throw the blame at some invisible enemy. "Israel is controlling Hamas", this is why they are so bad. A very convenient yet pitiful and self-harmful way to side with the Palestinians.


Having said that, ANY people have a RIGHT to defend themselves from an INVADING force and that is exactly what Israel is..

Sure, but what does sending rockets into civilian houses have to do with defending yourself? The only reason the Palestinians have to defend themselves is from unproportional retaliation on IDF's behalf. When you think about it, the only thing you have to complain about is the fact that the IDF's response to Hamas' puny rockets is not proportionate. But then again, would you like to see a constant barrage from Israel to Gaza that consists of random rockets that are aimed mainly at civilian houses, or insert suicide bombers to explode inside malls? Would that make you feel better? Would that be a fine proportional response that would satisfy everyone in saying the response is not equal? I highly doubt it.

They can defend themselves from an invading force, yes, but Israel is not an invading force anymore. The land is Israeli as it was declared not only by Israel but by the UN. Yes, the declaration now speaks of the 67' borders, but until a sane government which will not use it's territories for attacking Israel (like Hamas has) will rise, they can forget about that idea and get used to settlers that colonize unpopulated areas.
Boo hoo, they have to "suffer" the Israeli presence until they have a sane government. A real drama! Excuse me for not weeping in agony and sorrow.
If you think this is wrong, if you don't justify it, and you support "defending themselves" in the forms of rocketing civilian homes in Israel and exploding in malls and bus stations thinking its going to get them anywhere, you are horribly deluded. Keep in mind, Israel can sustain itself for many years ahead in this status quo, it is the Palestinian's time that is running out.

Anyhows, so far the dis-engagement plan have only brought more violence. Many settlements have been evicted since, and the territories now use as ground holders for Hamas and other militants.


ALL actions by Hamas could be considered in that vein..
Now you'll go on about attacking innocent women and children and I can say Israel have attacked many times more..
They are BOTH guilty of that though Israel is by far worse given numbers..

This is where you're wrong. Israel has not bombed civilian targets on purpose. Infact, the only one to blame for 99% civilian deaths in Gaza are Hamas and their tactics. You would be a fool not to realize that once you are shooting from civilian populated areas, civilian population isn't going to be harmed in the following retaliation. Rest assured, when a single militant fires from a desolate area (very rare), only the launcher is being bombed - and not a school as you would like to believe.
Firing from civilian population (VERY clear footage) - Also in this link is a footage of shooting from a graveyard. They don't stop shooting from civilian population even when they are dead! So much for honoring the ones that passed away.
Firing from a foreign press building - Did I mention I just LOVE this clip? Watch the reaction from the broadcaster, terribly funny.
Firing from UNRWA school(!) - That building is a UN funded school. So much for saying thanks, and so much for wanting the youth to progress anywhere beyond armed conflicts. High quality governing! Let these men have their independence! Lol.
Hiding ammunition inside mosques - Don't watch this link if you don't want to see a mosque exploding. Well, I guess it's alot safer to pray to when tons of explosives are right beneath your ground. Yeah.


Now, I will only discuss the thread topic from now on..

Oh good, perhaps you'll now be able to answer my original question. Do I need to remind it? Heh.
edit on 13-9-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


how come no one understands that stuff?

they got it great as an "occupied" territory! tons of money and face time with the press.

as a nation, they can't play the oppressed card anymore.

no sympathy from the idiot world.

i bet israel wants them to get the vote!

make things a lot simpler.



Why wouldn't they be able to play the oppressed card? Israel plays the oppressed card all the time. If that doesn't work they scream everyone is anti Semitic and if that doesn't work then it's time to bring up the holocaust.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by buster2010
Why wouldn't they be able to play the oppressed card? Israel plays the oppressed card all the time. If that doesn't work they scream everyone is anti Semitic and if that doesn't work then it's time to bring up the holocaust.

Let's see why.. because the world doesn't work like ATS?
Because you can't just star and flag someone in the real world politics just because he has the same racial opinions as you do?

I can't believe I'm even about to explain the following subject, it's so elementary I refuse to believe I'm telling it to someone who is of legal age. I hope so, for the sake of hope of man kind and IQ preserving.

Let's start by saying I don't support "playing" the "oppressed" card as long as it isn't highly justified.

Anyway, Israeli oppressed card is about anything racial, not anything political or national.
You won't see Israel going into Gaza/Lebanon/Syria with the claims that they were once oppressed by the Germans. It's irrational to even think so.

The Palestinian oppressed card on the other hand, is played every day and every time the Palestinians suffer from an Israeli attack. Once they turn independent, they will have a year to maintain an army, security force, and a political structure that does not allow them to simply launch rockets at Israel whenever they are upset. After this is done, they will no longer have any oppressed card to play since they will have everything they asked for - an independent state, their borders, their army etc.


Thinking about this again, this is so simple to understand I'm not even sure you're not trolling on purpose. Even if you are, consider my post a present.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 07:03 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


I think the Saudi's are worried, hence the tone. They would be Public Enemy number 1 in the Middle East.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 07:25 AM
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The Palestinian should be run out of Gaza into the arms of the other Arabs that love them so to take care of. What do you mean the other Arabs don't want them.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 08:11 AM
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Come on guys, we all know whats gonna happen.

A false flag terrorist attack which undermines the whole Palestinian state hood bid.




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