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Saudi Arabia threatens split with US if Obama vetos Palestinian statehood bid

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posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 

Somehow, I get the feeling that no matter what happens, Saudi Arabia and the US are friends behind the scenes. We can't really go on without their oil, yet. So it makes sense.

Remember, most politicians use doublespeak and can speak through the corner of their mouth.
edit on 12-9-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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If the US uses it;s veto not only will all the Arab world be disgusted, but half the western world would too. The fact the the US would go against a majority vote shows traces of it's arrogance. The fact it would presume to imply therefore that every other nation that voted for this has got it wrong is certainly telling of what hides behinds they smiles. Or are they just so openly brazen about their political self interests and brown nosing the Israel state that they don't care what any vody else wants or thinks? I don't know.

I never understood why after thousands of years there is still such a lack of ability to talk in that part of the world. You would have thought that by now we would have learned from history, but instead we seem to want to honor past battles by perpetuating the fight. It is no secret that Israel continues to break international laws, building its settlements, imprisoning an entire people. And there is no doubt that the internation responce to this has ben muted, to say the best - mostly due to American world power, I would add. And I draw no distinction here - Hamas, the IDF, Palistinnian, Isreali....... They are all quick enough to blame the other. They won't talk to me, say both sides. We are retaliatinng, say both sides.

An independant Palistinian state is justified moraly, ethicaly, and legaly. There is no doubt it will happen sooner or later. Don't underestimate the power of demographics. Someone said that once. It may take another generation, but it will happen. I hope sooner rather than later.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 11:06 PM
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Here's another sobering article concerning this. For those who underestimate, the implications could be immense!




The United States must support the Palestinian bid for statehood at the United Nations this month or risk losing the little credibility it has in the Arab world.

If it does not, American influence will decline further, Israeli security will be undermined and Iran will be empowered, increasing the chances of another war in the region.

Moreover, Saudi Arabia would no longer be able to cooperate with America in the same way it historically has. With most of the Arab world in upheaval, the “special relationship” between Saudi Arabia and the United States would increasingly be seen as toxic by the vast majority of Arabs and Muslims, who demand justice for the Palestinian people.

Saudi leaders would be forced by domestic and regional pressures to adopt a far more independent and assertive foreign policy.


www.thejakartaglobe.com...

Actually after re-reading it's pretty much the same article as the original just reworded and a bit longer, lol.
edit on 12-9-2011 by concernedcitizen519 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 11:08 PM
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I hope people realize that we receive a TON of oil from Saudi Arabia.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by concernedcitizen519
Here's another sobering article concerning this. For those who underestimate, the implications could be immense!




The United States must support the Palestinian bid for statehood at the United Nations this month or risk losing the little credibility it has in the Arab world.

If it does not, American influence will decline further, Israeli security will be undermined and Iran will be empowered, increasing the chances of another war in the region.

Moreover, Saudi Arabia would no longer be able to cooperate with America in the same way it historically has. With most of the Arab world in upheaval, the “special relationship” between Saudi Arabia and the United States would increasingly be seen as toxic by the vast majority of Arabs and Muslims, who demand justice for the Palestinian people.

Saudi leaders would be forced by domestic and regional pressures to adopt a far more independent and assertive foreign policy.


www.thejakartaglobe.com...


I completely agree.

There is also another fact to add in there. I was watching a program last night about the US army pulling out of Afganistan. It was described as "Leaving without winning" and that the Arab perspective of this is that they beat the Americans. (And this is the opinion of an ex CIA officer - I will attempt to find a link, but this was on Australian TV so I may not be lucky) So US crdability is already at an all time low. Add in the blocking of a Palastinian state, and it is just lots more tinder to an already overheated situation.

I do beleive that with this backdrop, the Soudi's may well put up a public face af anger and make some political moves.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
so that extremists in Hamas will lose their credibility if Palestine get their state.
Giving Palestinians a state, finally, will be a big step towards that.


Seriously.. how exactly will giving them a state will be a step towards extremists in Hamas losing their credibility? I just can't see how the two relates.

If anything, giving them a state will make them an official government, which will be even worse since when Israel will be attacked by an official governments order, it will no longer hold restraint and you can kiss your Palestinian statehood goodbye in a flash of an F15 bomb run.

Obama doesn't threaten with Veto because his evil Zionist overlords told him to do so. He is doing this because he knows with Hamas in power Palestinians are going no-where with statehood recognition or not.

Do explain how giving them a state while Hamas is completely in power, is going towards any positive position.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 02:14 AM
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What a joke!

Like the relationship with the arabs and America is already NOT TOXIC

These people crack me up...



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 02:42 AM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Ron Paul was right again blowback



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 02:44 AM
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Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Ron Paul was right again blowback

Consider my above question addressed to you aswell. How would giving the Palestinians a statehood under Hamas' complete control over them will get them anywhere?

..I will not be surprised if you choose not to answer me based on my nickname tho.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by OldCorp
 


There are elements of Hamas which are disgusting in their behavior, that is without doubt. I do not back strikes on civilians by either side.

However, to state that the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights for that matter are spoils of war 'it's not stealing when annexed in war' for Israel to amuse itself with is incorrect.

Resolution 242 from the security council, issued after the 1967 pre-emptive strike by Israel on Egypt & Syria preceded by Egyptian grandstanding and rhetoric directed towards Israel.


"Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles: (i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;


daccess-dds-ny.un.org...

The resolution is quite clear and legally binding.

It may have been permissible to hold territory once conquered in the past but international law is in place to prevent this kind of thing. Obviously it is continuously flouted by the major powers, but this has been such an egregious, long running occupation that it is quite unique.

Your reading of what happened in 1948 is quite different to mine. Around 750,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from Palestinian villiages and towns within and without the mandated state of Israel as set down by the UN. This was a pre planned operation initated by Ben-Gurion.

Thousands were murdered and the rest forced in to a destitute future in Jordanian, Syrian & Lebanese refugee camps.


In a letter that David Ben-Gurion sent to the commanders of the Haganah brigades he stated, ‘the cleansing of Palestine remained the prime objective of Plan Dalet.’


Pappe, I, ''The Ethnic Clensing of Palestine'', P 128.

There is much debate over 'Plan Dalet', but for me at its heart was the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians within the mandated state of Israel. As this was carried out successfully, large parts of mandated Palestine became included in this as Ben-Gurion and his commanders hubris grew.

Israel knew it was never in serious danger of destruction by the Arab 'armies' as the Jordanians had agreed to stay out of the fighting in exchange for E Jerusalem and the West Bank.

They were the only effective fighting force in the region compared to the Israelis, as was proven when Israel reigned on its agreement and attempted to take by force both East Jerusalem and parts of the West Bank, they were repelled.

At this point in Israel's history, when it had only just become a state and was not a military superpower as it is today, would it really have been possible to carry out this huge ethnic cleansing operation whilst fighting a supposed 'existential' war?

History aside I hope for a permanent, just peace between the two sides as I am sure you do as well.

edit on 13-9-2011 by Peruvianmonk because: Spelling



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 02:51 AM
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Wow, talk about being between a rock and a hard place, I would hate to be Obama at this stage, does he call SA`s bluff and veto, thereby risking the vast oil imports as well as loss of standing in the middle east?

Or does he disappoint the Israelis and face the lashing from the Israeli lobbyist and congress.

The one option doesnt bode well for America and the other doesnt bode well for Obama. The question is in whose interest would he act. If he doesnt veto he wont be re-elected considering the strong influence of the Israeli lobbyist.

I think he is going to call SA`s bluff and veto, I dont think America really cares about SA`s opinion and they dont think the Saudis would really stop the oil exports.

I think this is a great move by Saudi Arabia, good on them, Palestinian statehood is long overdue and so is an Israeli ass kicking.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 02:51 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


You need to understand, that israel out of israel means zionists grabbing land off the palestinians, wich no one cares if they were there 2000 years ago or not, no one, really. Fact is Israel has occupied and behaved pretty much like a bully, thanks to the US and UN aid.
What I dont get, is how is it possible to support a government that talks about genocide and holocaust but kills dozens a day, youd think they may have learned from being whacked. Now you can tell me they dont kill dozens a day, it will not change my point, go ahead...



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 03:00 AM
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I think Obama will support Netanyahu unless he is ordered not to.

And everything is pointing to Israel being set up to back down or be taken out.

But I don't see how this can happen before the end of September.

If those controlling this decide to stall, I don't see any player there who can force their hand.

The stall might be for a month, or for a year. But obviously, things are being set up to change in that region.

Try thinking of it as a chess game being played by unseen players. The politicians you see are the visible pieces. You can't see the players so the pieces seem to me moving themselves. But the unseen players may have already agreed who will win and who will lose this round. Then again, perhaps they haven't...



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 03:06 AM
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Originally posted by Saltarello
reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


You need to understand, that israel out of israel means zionists grabbing land off the palestinians, wich no one cares if they were there 2000 years ago or not, no one, really. Fact is Israel has occupied and behaved pretty much like a bully, thanks to the US and UN aid.
What I dont get, is how is it possible to support a government that talks about genocide and holocaust but kills dozens a day, youd think they may have learned from being whacked. Now you can tell me they dont kill dozens a day, it will not change my point, go ahead...

How the hell does this answers my question even remotely? I ask about one thing and you say another. Just the typical logic of the people who are on your side of the political spectrum.

I asked, and I now bold my question - How does giving the Palestinians statehood recognition while they are completely under Hamas' control, will lead them anywhere?.

You wish to talk about the creation of Israel I will be more than happy to shut you up, in another thread so you won't be able to avoid my questions in this thread any further. Just link me to any thread of your choice and for all I care we can have this debate over there. However, in this thread I expect you to answer the questions regarding this thread's issue, which is Why does Obama veto the Palestinian's bid for statehood recognition.



...I wonder what type of avoiding the issue will you resolve to now.
edit on 13-9-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 03:10 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


Theres nothing to address, I think I made my point clear. I was not trying to argue with you, just stating facts, look around you.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 03:20 AM
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Originally posted by Saltarello
reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


Theres nothing to address, I think I made my point clear. I was not trying to argue with you, just stating facts, look around you.

How convenient. Saying there is nothing to address when I lay the question in front of your eyes, numerous times, bold and underlined. As I said, that is nothing more than the same typical behavior on behalf of people from your side of the political spectrum.

You made one point clear - you are not here to discuss thing rather to moan and whine while trying to make my question fade away.

It will not.
I repeat it once again:
How does giving the Palestinians statehood recognition while they are completely under Hamas' control, will lead them anywhere?

"look around you" .. ?
I am, and all I see is you trying to confuse facts with opinion, mostly your own biased one. I say again - if you wish to discuss what you are saying feel free to make a different thread about it (hell, even hijack an existing one I don't care) and I will be more than happy to shut you up using real facts, not made up ones that suit my agenda.

But seeing the nature of your posts you are not up to debate on anything, rather to shove your opinion at people's ears and ignore what others has to say (also ignore that this thread is about a completely different subject) until you will be tired of doing so. Very much like a headless chicken dancing around until it dies.
edit on 13-9-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-9-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by IsraeliGuy

Originally posted by Vitchilo
so that extremists in Hamas will lose their credibility if Palestine get their state.
Giving Palestinians a state, finally, will be a big step towards that.


Seriously.. how exactly will giving them a state will be a step towards extremists in Hamas losing their credibility? I just can't see how the two relates.

If anything, giving them a state will make them an official government, which will be even worse since when Israel will be attacked by an official governments order, it will no longer hold restraint and you can kiss your Palestinian statehood goodbye in a flash of an F15 bomb run.

Obama doesn't threaten with Veto because his evil Zionist overlords told him to do so. He is doing this because he knows with Hamas in power Palestinians are going no-where with statehood recognition or not.

Do explain how giving them a state while Hamas is completely in power, is going towards any positive position.



correct, statehood would cause so many problems for the pali's.

the UN or israel will not put up with these attacks as a sovereign state.

i bet the arab nations will block the bid. they have the most to loose.

obama will ok it, i bet.

eta; it doesn't matter how the saudi's vote, it's in the bag, no state for the pali's.

obama should call their bluff, we can get oil from anywhere. drilling our own is the best way.

they would crap their whatever they wear.


edit on 13-9-2011 by fooks because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 03:27 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 





How would giving the Palestinians a statehood under Hamas' complete control over them will get them anywhere?


Well it would give Palestine recourse to the UN. Since the annexing of Palestinian territory is against international law they would have grounds to approach the UN for intervention, the same goes for the wall and the apartheid being practiced by Israel all of which is contrary to International law.

However in practice I dont think it would make a difference as Israel has more than shown that they dont care about international law and just do what they want, however it might help to remove the wool of the eyes of those who view Israel as a victim and get them to see that they are more like a bully.



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 03:29 AM
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Ah, such lovely examples of white American supremacy on this thread.

/sarcasm

Personally Obama is scratching his head right about now, but since he's been nothing but a status quo guy all along, he's going to let the Jewish propaganda that feeds the American economy win him over like they always do.

heh



posted on Sep, 13 2011 @ 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by demoncleaner
Well it would give Palestine recourse to the UN. Since the annexing of Palestinian territory is against international law they would have grounds to approach the UN for intervention, the same goes for the wall and the apartheid being practiced by Israel all of which is contrary to International law.

That would be true IF Hamas wasn't in power. This is what you don't seem to get. Hamas is a recognized terror organization, not only by Israel, but by the European Union aswell.
The UN will not rush to solve Hamas' biddings even if they are an official government as they are recognized for what they are.

That is one issue.

The other issue is that Hamas has stated more than once it's refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist, which means they are not headed for peace, official statehood or not.
As I said - firing at Israel while they are an official government will open the hunting season as far as they are concerned. If Israel has remained quiet about a few rockets a day hitting on unpopolated areas, you can bet it will not stay quiet after they are a state. How can I put it so you would get the picture... It's enough that a single militant wakes up on the bad foot and decides to launch a Qassam rocket at Israel, it will be considered as a sovereign act of war.

Since Hamas cannot even hold off it's own men from doing such attacks, let alone other small militant organizations, what makes you think it would be able to do so after a "cosmic" event such as a statehood recognition? What would it matter?

Another issue is the harm presented by Hamas towards the Palestinian people themselves.
If you are interested in this specific issue I can provide plenty of evidence to show how Hamas really treats it's own citizens and what are the citizens think of them, when not discussing Israeli politics. Do you wish for the Palestinians to have murderous middle aged tyrants who believe in holy religious wars only to earn some political points?

Hamas steals aid for itself

Seriously just watch these videos (2 parts of the same video) and tell me if you with this to be the governing factor of ANY population on earth.


edit on 13-9-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)




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