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The Elenin Haters and a Simple Question

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posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 08:16 PM
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.we WILL have a conclusive answer to the Elenin mystery very soon.


For people who believe in things like Elenin, ascension, channellers etc. THERE IS NO CONCLUSIVE ANSWER.

The past has proven over and over that people can make claims, and even if proven wrong (over and over) they will only change their claims.

Someone predicts the end of the world - it wont happen on a specific date, people are STILL believing that the person who made the prediction is legit.

If Elenin would just disappear, then they would come up with a theory it's a cloaked, invisible space ship etc..etc..

NOTHING IS EVER CONCLUSIVE because the people are constantly bending their own reality for what they want to believe. It goes so far that even with the evidence HIT ON THE HEAD they will deny it and then simply claim its a conspiracy and evidence is faked - just to make them EVEN MORE believe that their own theory is right.

There is no *conclusive answer* when it comes to belief systems, philosophy or religion (it's not science, it's beliefs) - people still go to Church and pray even without "conclusive answers", right?

Since the Elenin hype is also (mainly) a belief system it doesnt matter whether there will be a conclusive answer or not, people will continue believe what they want.




posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 08:17 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by LightAssassin
 


What did the most damage was the first time someone turned Elenin into an anagram. As soon as that loose connection to Nibiru was made Elenin gained a group of hardcore believers and a group that likes to hoax those hardcore believers. The thing is all of this pretty much started with Terral Croft, who has been to have been lying about most of his claims and pretty much proven to be a hoaxer. However, at this point this whole Elenin thing has picked up too much steam to stop regardless of where information came from.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by gwydionblack
It is comments of ignorance and know it all's that make me absolutely despise ATS.

Let me point this out to everyone who thinks they KNOW about Elenin.

YOU DON'T.

You don't know if there is any merit to the Elenin doomsayers.
You don't know if Elenin is going to hit or not.
You don't know if Elenin is going to have any affect whatsoever on the Earth as it passes.
You don't know if Elenin is even broken apart.

YOU DON'T KNOW.


yes i KNOW theres no merit to elenin doomsayers since i have family that works at jpl and they have stated time and time again that there is nothing to this and its just another thing passing through the solar system

yes i KNOW its not going to hit since as i stated above i have family that works at jpl and i have asked, they said its going to pass by millions of miles away

yes i KNOW there isnt going to be any effect on on earth because its a SMALL comet and we have had larger comets pass by with NO effect so its only logical to say this one will be the same,

and last but not least the comet breaking up, nasa has said it has broken up, all those people with telescopes have said it has broken up, i listen to the people that actualy know about this stuff, not internet trolls with more time than brains whos only proof is a youtube video they found from some random person


i can bet millions of dollars that once this passes and nothing happens the same people are going to find another thing thats going to kill us in 2 years and wonder why nobody takes the seriously. ive actualy taken the time to write down all the names so the next time they bring some doomsday prophecy up i can just point back to all the elenin nonsense

and yes i KNOW



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 08:37 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 


My search actually started with Asteroid Apophis. I knew there was a relation to the Earthquakes and Animal deaths. Now I've seen the 188 day link between the EQ's. That is one strange coincidence that even I cannot explain. Can you?

Something is wrong with this whole thing. It may not be Elenin but something is happening.

I can see how the hysteria has come about. I think people are sensing something and are so confused that they are jumping on the first thing that seems to make any sense at all. As I have.
edit on 12-9-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by Xcalibur254
 


My search actually started with Asteroid Apophis. I knew there was a relation to the Earthquakes and Animal deaths. Now I've seen the 188 day link between the EQ's. That is one strange coincidence that even I cannot explain. Can you?

Something is wrong with this whole thing. It may not be Elenin but something is happening.

I completely agree with your statement. I can not say with any proof that Elenin is causing any of the crazy stuff going on on earth right now. But unlike mister D.J. and the rest I will not go out on a limb and call a bunch of people stupid for buying into the fact that things seem like they are changing rapidly. If someone came out and explained why we are experiencing so many crazy earthquakes, animal deaths, volcanos and the like without just telling us we are stupid I would gladly listen. But if people just keep saying (obama) PASS THIS BILL! without any BILL to pass I will be skeptical. Oort Cloud Shmort cloud! Lens Flair!
edit on 12/9/11 by xxspockyxx because: Grammatical errors



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by xxspockyxx
 


I actually did provide an answer to his question. I support the hypothesis that long period comets are disrupted by rogue stars. They could pass within several hundred thousand AU and still have enough of an effect to send comets hurtling towards the Sun from the Oort Cloud.




How is it we know all of this yet we don't know where our own Moon came from? Or how earthquakes get triggered? Or why bees are dying?? Or why whales beach themselves? Or how...........etc.
You get my drift.
We don't know the basic A B C's yet we know "Z" ?

Puh-lease.

They're educated guesses from people who get PAID to have an educated opinion (that's spun into facts)

We can't even figure out how WE got here let alone where a comet comes from!

Here's a news flash: Everything we think we know?......is wrong.
In every single way. Right down to the holographic reality of life.

We know diddly squat! And anyone claiming to know anything more than 'we all die'....... is lying because a 'guess' is all we have.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 


Sorry, but just because you do not know does not mean that others do not know. Elenin has and is passing through the solar system in a predictable manner as have other comets.

There is nothing to the doomsayers claims other than typical fearmongering.
Elenin is not going to hit. That is well known.
Elenin is not coming close to the Earth and will not have an effect. The passage of many other objects tells us so.
If Elenin is one piece or many it does not matter. The pieces will not hit Earth.

To claim that people do not know is really saying you have no idea how this type of work is done.


Unconfirmed rumors have claimed that the comet broken up and thus slowed down.

The comet does not slow down if it breaks into pieces.


IF these rumors are true and the comet slowed down, there is a possibility of a very near Earth pass or even an Earth collision.

No.


Now why is this comet different from the rest? Well for starters the secrecy and the withholding of information for so long. Not only that but a series of (coincidental?) occurrences with alignments of the comet, and the fact that it matches a lot of (coincidental?) similarities to "end times" comets.

Sorry none of that is correct.


the people who post in them making FUN of the posters who are actually trying to research the subject

What I see as troubling is that people falling for all sorts of rumors and taking them as real even when the claims are obvious hoaxes.


If the break up of the comet is true and it is slowing down, it only needs to slow down its projected path by 15 days to either collide or nearly pass the Earth.

Did you realize that the comet is not in the ecliptic? There is no chance of a collision. The fragmentation of a comet does not slow it down.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by quedup
 


The place a satellite crashes is not based solely on gravity. It is based on a number of issues stemming from the shape of the outer atmosphere and the fluid dynamics of a craft as it enters the atmosphere at hypersonic speeds and begins to break up in an unpredictable manner.

To compare the 2 is very wrong.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by Human_Alien
 


There is nothing unusual about Elenin itself. The unusual part is the rush by a bunch of doofus characters on the internet to make up wing nut stories about the comet. How many Wilcock wannabees can there be?

Here are typical claims made and similar claims in other venues:

It doesn't look like a comet (He looks like a shape shifting reptile)
It's not a comet it doesn't act like a comet (It didn't act like a fire collapse)
It was prophesized (The world is ending in 20xx, please insert the xx of your choice)

None of these are believable.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by Char-Lee
 



I think the place to start is why you and people like DJW001 contribute regularly tot he site.

Why do you contribute regularly?

Isn't it okay to bring some facts to the table?
Isn't it okay to be logical and test the issues being claimed?



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by xxspockyxx
 


Animal deaths, volcanoes, and quakes are not increasing. Maybe you are more aware of these issues. I don't know about your awareness or attention to these issues. What is well known is that there has been no change in volcanic activity over the last 50 years. Quakes are unchanged. Animal deaths are unchanged.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by flexy123
 


Arrogant troll.

reply to post by stereologist
 


Holy crap. The information you brought on to prove your point was astounding.



Sorry, but just because you do not know does not mean that others do not know. Elenin has and is passing through the solar system in a predictable manner as have other comets.



Elenin is not coming close to the Earth and will not have an effect. The passage of many other objects tells us so.


Sorry, but just because a flipped quarter lands on heads 9 times in a row, it does not mean it will not land on tails on the tenth flip. Your logic fails. That is not science, it is assumption - guesswork - and it is no better than people on the other side of the table.



Elenin is nohis is the exact t going to hit. That is well known.



If Elenin is one piece or many it does not matter. The pieces will not hit Earth.


Aren't you a prophet. These are the exact kind of statements I was referring to in my OP. Your self righteous assumptions that you think you know something, therefore it has to be true. There is no 100% certainty that Elenin will not hit the Earth, and there is definitely not a 100% certainty that none of its pieces, if it indeed is broken up, are going to hit the Earth either. I'm sorry but science does not take into factor outside involvement in the scheme of things, and regardless of where the path of the comet is going, there will always be a chance that something directs it right at us. To believe otherwise is to be arrogant and ignorant.



The comet does not slow down if it breaks into pieces.


Well I have heard otherwise. Last I looked there wasn't a definite science on it. In fact, I have researched a few quotes from prominent astrologists who claim that it is indeed possible for it to slow down based on if a comet breaks apart. However, you are right, I should just believe what you say.



No.


No? And this simply makes you look more ridiculous. How can you just say, "No". What I said is UNDENIABLE FACT, not just speculation off of what I "think" I know. Based on the current projected path, if Elenin passes through Earth's orbit 15 days later than expected - IT CAN COLLIDE WITH EARTH. Period.



Sorry none of that is correct.


You are misinformed or ignorant. All of that is correct. If you think otherwise, why not saying WHY for starters.



What I see as troubling is that people falling for all sorts of rumors and taking them as real even when the claims are obvious hoaxes.


What I see as troubling is the fact that some people will believe government agencies at everything they say, even though they have been proven liers in the past. What I see as troubling, is when people ASSUME that they can predict the future when it comes to nature, only to have nature time and time again spit in the face of human so-called "intelligence" and do something that we least expect. Lastly, what I find troubling is even though possibility of something exists, people will criticize that possibility simply because it does not fall in line with their current belief.

That is what this is all about and you are stupendously proving my point.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by Human_Alien
 



How is it we know all of this yet we don't know where our own Moon came from? Or how earthquakes get triggered? Or why bees are dying?? Or why whales beach themselves? Or how...........etc.
You get my drift.

That's a brilliant question. The answer lies in the complexity of the issue. The Moon's origins were so long ago that the origins are harder to work out. The death of bees happens every few decades. This time the reason is not clear. All of the usual suspects have been ruled out it seems.

Comet motions are affected by a single force. That makes the work a bit easier. The composition or age of the object are not important. The info needed is where it is, its velocity, and the single force acting upon it.


We know diddly squat! And anyone claiming to know anything more than 'we all die'....... is lying because a 'guess' is all we have.

Not true. Event the ancients learned enough to predict eclipses with great precision. They learned to create calendars. Look at planes and rockets and automobiles and computers and see that we known a lot more than diddly squat.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 



Sorry, but just because a flipped quarter lands on heads 9 times in a row, it does not mean it will not land on tails on the tenth flip. Your logic fails. That is not science, it is assumption - guesswork - and it is no better than people on the other side of the table.

That is a straw man argument. This is not about probabilities. It is science and not guess work. Well, you guessed and you are wrong.


Aren't you a prophet. These are the exact kind of statements I was referring to in my OP. Your self righteous assumptions that you think you know something, therefore it has to be true. There is no 100% certainty that Elenin will not hit the Earth, and there is definitely not a 100% certainty that none of its pieces, if it indeed is broken up, are going to hit the Earth either.

It is a logical fallacy to assign probabilities to the situation.


I'm sorry but science does not take into factor outside involvement in the scheme of things, and regardless of where the path of the comet is going, there will always be a chance that something directs it right at us. To believe otherwise is to be arrogant and ignorant.

Sorry, but none of that is relevant. It is your arrogant belief that people are not capable of determining the outcome. I say they can and do on a regular basis. Yes, people are capable of determining that Elenin is not a danger.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by gwydionblack
 

Did you realize that the comet is not in the ecliptic? There is no chance of a collision.


With all the quoting and rebuttal going on, I noticed this question ignored. Could someone that believes impact is a possibility address this?
edit on 12-9-2011 by aaron2209 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 



Well I have heard otherwise. Last I looked there wasn't a definite science on it.

Sorry, you are mistaken. An object's movements are subject to the forces acting on them. A comet is no different.


In fact, I have researched a few quotes from prominent astrologists who claim that it is indeed possible for it to slow down based on if a comet breaks apart.

Astrologers are charlatans. Please stick to the scientists: the astronomers and physicists. The motion of the parts of the comet are dependent on the forces acting on them. Gravity, the solar wind, and radiation pressure act on comets. The solar wind and radiation pressure are only important on the dust and gasses. That is why the comet's tail always points away from the Sun. The nucleus moves in a path defined by gravity. The solar wind and radiation pressure have so little effect on the nucleus as to not be measurable.


No? And this simply makes you look more ridiculous. How can you just say, "No". What I said is UNDENIABLE FACT, not just speculation off of what I "think" I know.

I said no to your speculation because it was wrong. Fact?



You are misinformed or ignorant. All of that is correct. If you think otherwise, why not saying WHY for starters.

Again, your wild eyed speculations are wrong. Had you anything to back up any of these crazy claims you'd have done that. You still can. Please back up any of these things I have pointed out as false.


What I see as troubling is the fact that some people will believe government agencies at everything they say, even though they have been proven liers in the past. What I see as troubling, is when people ASSUME that they can predict the future when it comes to nature, only to have nature time and time again spit in the face of human so-called "intelligence" and do something that we least expect. Lastly, what I find troubling is even though possibility of something exists, people will criticize that possibility simply because it does not fall in line with their current belief.

That is what this is all about and you are stupendously proving my point.

It is a fallacy to claim that this is all from the government. Most of the work has been done by on government groups such as amateurs. It has been done by private and non-private universities. It has been checked and rechecked over time and the globe.

All you have is a lack of understanding that you are attempting to project unto others. Instead of criticizing others for understanding the issues you should consider becoming someone that knows why these things are known and verified.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 10:08 PM
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I understand this thread has carried on for awhile but I would like to comment on the OP:

What do we know? (besides the data provided by professional and amateur astronomers..)

Is that there are plenty of hoaxers and general idiots making obtuse claims about Elenin. Complete lies and fabrication...

Oh..




posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 

What i do know is that it is at least not a big dwarf star like object that has been claimed so many times here.
Even if it was only as big as lets say jupiter or saturn it would even then already have revealed itself thanks to the gravitational effects on our planet.
I also know that comets have no effects on our planet unless it collides with it, which dosent seem to be the case.
Plenty of larger objects that passes our planet closer on regular basis.

So what exactly do you think it is then?? Blindly assuming it is now on collision course just because of reports about it breaking up is just silly.



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