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Enough with the dishonest behaviour Truthers - I'm calling you out.

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posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 


Hi There.

I appreciate your stance, but I cannot agree. On the day of 9/11 this year I wrote this about what I believe, just for some sanity amid the media reporting and official version:

"Today is the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks. I have had to turn off the television because I cannot stand the propoganda and lies being spouted yet once again.

My opinion is that the 9/11 attacks were carried out by Islamic Extremists who did not know who their bosses and superiors really were and what the agenda for these attacks was truely about. I believe that those who orchestrated the attacks were a group of men from many nationalities, including U.S, who used these extremists to create an act of terror that would allow for clandestine legislation to provide states with greater control of their citizens through fear and terror (The Millitary Industrial Complex). It was a means by which governments could establish a new kind of authoritarian rulership under the veneer of democracy. "

My opinion is based on everything I have read on both sides of the arguement. I wish it was not this conclusion as it is disturbing, but I want to get a clear and truthful understanding of this event.

This kind of event has happened many times when the purpose fits; Nero setting fire to Rome and blaming his enemies, Hitler burning The Reichstag and may be even Pearl Harbour. For wars to exist means there is an agressor and an initiator so even World War 1 and World War 2 were started deliberately as a means to an end. It is the nature of the world of power.




posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 


Good post. As always any attempt to get at the real truth and actually deny ignorance gets few flags while threads based on nothing but fabrication get hundreds and I think that is a shame and speaks poorly about us as a group.

I however do think that WTC7 did come down as a result of pre-planted demolition devices to protect sensitive documents. I even agree with the reason I believe they did it. Part of the reason I think so is the care they took over multiple hours to make sure nobody was inside or around it when it came down.

As to all the rest; utter nonsense. I think a lot of it is coming from people who's visions is so clouded by hatred of authority they accept anything negative without question. People who will argue it is true regardless of the fact there simply is no evidence and its all conjecture and fabrication.

That Terrorist attack has caused this country enough pain and the Truther Movement is adding to that pain for no good reason. It's just become an Anarchist tool and a vehicle for the haters in our society to use as a weapon. Not to mention the Truthers have actually been helpful to the same Terrorists who did kill those innocent people; so helpful in fact I wonder if there are not some Terrorists involved in pushing the Truther agenda. That is a real Conspiracy.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by mileslong54
reply to post by wrkn4livn
 


Flight 93 was shot out of the sky by the order of Dick Head (of Defense at the time) Cheney and he admitted it.

I happen to believe this too. Terrible call but I think it had to done. You,in that same position, would probably have done the same. What are you to do? Let the plane fly back to DC and nose dive into the streets!? No. Could not be allowed.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 06:56 PM
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reply to post by tristaneldritch
 


Honestly i couldn't tell ya. They never let me in the loop,
but there's plenty of agencies with plenty to gain who've commited atrocities so I wouldn't put it past them.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by tristaneldritch
Again, any takers for a good explanation as to WHY Building 7 might have been demoed by the 9 11 Cabal? Without a good reason for actually taking the risk of doing it, it would seem more plausible that it was just accidental collateral damage from the collapse of 1 and 2.


The first thing I can think of. Money.

It is my understanding that Silverstein Properties’ estimated investment in WTC 7 was $386 million and the payout from the insurance was $861 million.

Aside from that, it is well known that on sept, 10 2001 Rumsfeld admitted that $2.3 trillion of USA money was "missing" it is thought that the evidence to track this money was held in WTC 7. Speculation but a compelling reason, no?

When Rumsfeld was asked why building 7 fell down he said "What is building 7?" So does Rumsfeld really want people to believe he has never heard of the 3rd building that fell on 9/11? Seems kinda guilty for him to state he has never heard of building 7. This is the secretary of defense we are talking about here. Him denying seems to play into the missing 2.3 trillion evidence being covered up by the collapse. Sure, still just speculation though.


Aside from that, the SEC was in that building. This is a huge deal. The loss of evidence caused by the sudden collapse of the building would be priceless to those the SEC was investigating.

The CIA also had offices in WTC 7. I could speculate that some High ranking CIA members wanted to destroy any paper trails of evidence of other crimes?

I can speculate like this until the cows come home. What is needed is an actual investigation. If you just want some motive to exist though, there are 3 off the top of my head. Imagine if someone actually looked into it.





edit on 12-9-2011 by sageofmonticello because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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I find your loose use of the label 'Truther' to be rather' disheartening.

You are generalizing those who prefer the truth in all areas of study, to only having an interest in the 9/11 case by using this term without being precise i.e 9/11 Truther...just reuse 9/11 Conspiracy Theorist


Just my opinion but gosh...Truther is such a silly name...By separating oneself from 'Truthers', one could understand it as one is not in favor of the Truth in all areas of study....
edit on 12-9-2011 by Comet2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:03 PM
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I call you out on denial on a massive scale, sorry don't have time to post what I have posted hundreds of times in these very forums.
But I will say when professional demolition experts say WTC7 was controlled take down, I kind of believe them...that means the rest was planned too, enough said.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by sageofmonticello
 





Aside from that, it is well known that on sept, 10 2001 Rumsfeld admitted that $2.3 trillion of USA money was "missing" it is thought that the evidence to track this money was held in WTC 7. Speculation but a compelling reason, no


Umm, no and no. The 2.3 trillion wasnt actual missing money, it was accounting adjustments made to the DoD inventories. It was never missing money and it was public record before Rummy was even the SoD. And the evidence wasn't in WTC 7...I would love to know what moron started that rumor.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to post by smurfy
 





Even the cut columns are covered in dust, that means circulating dust does it not.


I see slag from a torch cut.

Still there is no date or time in the photo. Am I supposed to take the word of you guys


I see dust everywhere in the picture, now, do you get the picture? + am I supposed to take your word, not that it matters, I am not talking about whether columns have been cut before or after.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 


Belongs in the Rant forum.

2nd line



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:11 PM
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So, your answers to everything is "not true." This argument has been used by believers of the official story before. It is just as convincing when you use it as all of those other times. That is to say, not very.

As for flight 93, I think it was shot down too. As family of the passengers, what would you rather hear? That they died heroes or that your own government shot the plane down to protect themselves? I think the former. That's why they rushed out a movie real quick to get the story out.
edit on 12-9-2011 by TheComte because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by spav5
 

c) skyscrapers never collapse by burning - NOT RELEVANT



Uh, how is this not relevant exactly? That three buildings all collapsed within the one day due to office fires; an amazing feat considering the fact that no steel-framed skyscraper has ever collapsed soley due to office fires.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by vipertech0596
 


You call it an accounting adjustment. I call it missing money. what is your point? either way it was 2.3 trillion of unaccounted for money. Anyhow, perhaps you missed it, even though you quoted it, I said "speculation"

speculation = a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence.

Furthermore, Rumsfeld has been tied in with the government and defense spending since 1975.
edit on 12-9-2011 by sageofmonticello because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:20 PM
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Please refrain from posting buildings that are completely structurally different.

These buildings are concrete block and pre-cast concrete, no steel girders.

WTC Steel girder construction, completely different.

With the explosive-less demolition below the building collapse is possible, because of the type of construction.

Bad analogy and comparison.

But thanks for posting a controlled demolition regardless, you just contradicted yourself.



Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
- The French use a demo technique, that doesn't use explosives, but does use the weight of upper floors to crush the lower floors. And guess what, a building destroyed this way looks EXACTLY like the Twin Towers.




edit on 12-9-2011 by Realtruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 

Most of the points here are not accurate or are not ideas held by the mainstream Truth movement.

For example, your first point:


1. No other building ever collapsed from fire - A BS argument:".

More accurately, I think the argument is that there are other buildings which have burned for hours on end (much longer than the WTC) which did not collapse.


9. The Pentagon had a missile defense system - NOT TRUE

This is definitely not a core argument of the Truth movement.


2 .The building looked like demos/ There's no other explanation a rational, intelligent person can reach -

Here you actually contradict yourself. First you dispute the argument that the WTC collapse looked like controlled demolitions but then you go on to provide a video of French demolitions which look similar to the WTCs...


The French use a demo technique [that] use[s] the weight of upper floors to crush the lower floors. And guess what, a building destroyed this way looks EXACTLY like the Twin Towers.


edit on 12-9-2011 by gladtobehere because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by sageofmonticello
 


You just dont get it do you. It was an inventory of ALL of the DoD's equipment....ships, tanks, aircraft, rifles, parts MRE's everything and the adjustments made to make the records match. Not missing money. 2.3 trillion dollars is YEARS worth of Dod budgets, and anyone who thinks that it was 2.3 trillion dollars in money that came up missing is flat out foolish.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:30 PM
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I quoted your whole post because this is an exampe of "truther fail". You did not post any links to the pictures. You are scalding the op for links and facts and you support no facts what so ever. A picture is just a picture......... No dates, no times, no links, no nothing Empty words Like your post that has two stars already. This is a perfect example of not doing the proper homework


Liejunkie01,i was trying to point out the angled cuts,nothing more,nothing less.
You can toss around all that "truther" is and "truther" that as much as you like.
It doesnt make them angled cuts go away...

Like i said,i was just illustrating the angled cuts.
My post was asking questions to the OP,you can answer them if you like,but if you don't want to discuss any of the questions i asked,then so be it.
I'm asking honest questions.
Maybe it is from being cut when they were cleaning the site up.

What about the molten iron?
edit on 12-9-2011 by BillyBoBBizWorth because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 


Good post. As always any attempt to get at the real truth and actually deny ignorance gets few flags while threads based on nothing but fabrication get hundreds and I think that is a shame and speaks poorly about us as a group.

I however do think that WTC7 did come down as a result of pre-planted demolition devices to protect sensitive documents. I even agree with the reason I believe they did it. Part of the reason I think so is the care they took over multiple hours to make sure nobody was inside or around it when it came down.

As to all the rest; utter nonsense. I think a lot of it is coming from people who's visions is so clouded by hatred of authority they accept anything negative without question. People who will argue it is true regardless of the fact there simply is no evidence and its all conjecture and fabrication.

That Terrorist attack has caused this country enough pain and the Truther Movement is adding to that pain for no good reason. It's just become an Anarchist tool and a vehicle for the haters in our society to use as a weapon. Not to mention the Truthers have actually been helpful to the same Terrorists who did kill those innocent people; so helpful in fact I wonder if there are not some Terrorists involved in pushing the Truther agenda. That is a real Conspiracy.


Blaine what you say just fortifies the thread as being null and void since it is about dishonesty. not what anyone may believe, rightly or wrongly. As for protecting documents, the numbers of investigative files lost, is not known, but one organisation alone lost 5000, with an unknown number of those backed up elsewhere.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:35 PM
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I admit I am not totally convinced 9/11 was an inside job, HOWEVER ... I think there is even less evidence that it was done by Osama Bin Laden. So even though i don't feel certain it was an inside job, I would consider myself a truther because I DEFINITELY think 9/11 is still highly mysterious and unsolved, and the actions of the US government and the powers that be imply some kind of malice or at the very least foreknowledge and exploitation.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:44 PM
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Enough with the dishonest behaviour [sic] Truthers - I'm calling you out.

Oh, really.....

Any how many stars? Well, balanced against how many members, maybe not all bad news...

I realize this is ATS, and there are T&C rules. But, how do you convey to the author of the thread that ATS cannot be an intelligent place to post ideas if it is NOT AN INTELLIGENT PLACE TO POST IDEAS?

Someone has an avatar of two dummies whacking each other. That is THIS thread, and I mean no disrespect to those that truly CARE about the truth, sometimes, not always, called TRUTHERS.

This thread helps no one. Nothing.



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