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A Closer Look at Multiculturalism

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posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 01:25 PM
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Perfect example;

Yesterday an Islamic Group burnt American flags outside the American embassy in London whilst chanting anti-western songs and flying black Jihad flags, whilst throwing insults towards the people who had lost loved ones. Yet the Police allowed them their chance to protest at their own will despite it causing huge offence to alot of people, who especially on this day would feel heated and emotional.

The EDL planned to lay wreaths at the American Embassy to offer condolences to the people who died in New York (67 Brits that included Muslims) but were told to move along or they would be arrested.

Granted there is more to the story (including racism from both sides, violence from both sides and ignorance from both sides) but the two situations alone show the reason why multiculturalism is failing in this country. The rights for the people who hate this country seem to be prioritised above those who love the UK, USA and it's allies. That is why people are getting fed up and that is why society will always be broken in the UK.




posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by allintoaccount

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by allintoaccount

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
reply to post by Bleak
 


so u would rather have all the cultures and peoples living seperately on their own individual countries, only exposed to their own cultures? would your country be the supreme culture and race? so you're basically saying people should just stick to their own kind? if we did that we would all just be a bunch of inbreds! LMAO!!!!

I doubt it, multiculturism is actually putting a break on evolution.


Actually, multiculturalism ensures our genes are mixed MORE...so it's most certainly not putting a break on evolution


I think you should study evolution. evolution happens when a particular branch separates from the main tree by isolation. Multi culturism is just mixing back up the main genes from the main tree. So you are wrong I'm affraid like your views on multiculturism.


I think you should read up on evolution, because if the above is your opinion, you're wrong. Isolation can produce new species, but isolation isn't required or even preferred. Hell, homo sapiens mixed with Neanderthals, horses had dirty sex with donkeys and produced mules...again, isolation isn't a requirement of evolution.

Also, I don't wanna derail this thread, but if you seriously wanna discuss evolution, join the creationism forum. You'll realize that it's pretty much the forum I'm most active in...mostly because evolution is a field I feel comfortable talking about.

Your still wrong on evolution, a mule is infertile just like different human races have trouble breeding, e.g. Sickle cell,near enough separate Specis of human, as for neanderthal ? Humans will mate with anything lol,



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by allintoaccount
 

There is no such thing as a "proverty trap" it is an excuse. Its an excuse in the council estates, its an excuse in the barrio and its an excuse in the ghetto.

Get your ass out of bed, get an education, go do miserable work get paid and push your kids to do better than you have done. Is it going to happen overnight? No it does not happen over night anywhere. It takes a couple of generations for it to happen.

It is the same failed argument that inner city people use to disparage the Koreans who pool their money, open small businesses, work 18 hours a day and send their kids to top schools. The folks in the project could have done that, hell the government wants them to do that and will give them loans to do it.

They don't want to do that because its too hard.

Nobody forced someone in a council house to trash their place or join a gang. Nobody forced them to never look for work. I've been to visit family in a council estate in Birmingham, England and I had a great time. We were at the pub all day, drinking pints, playing darts and generally doing what guys do when they are in their 20s. Problem is that these gents are in their late 30s and 40s. They are quite happy hanging out, drinking doing nothing. Can they see a way out? Of course they do, but it would mean getting a job and they are honest enough to tell you straight up that they are not about to do that.

Back to the point on multi-culturalism. My cousins in Birmingham have absolutely nothing in common with a working white person other than their race. They are idle, anti-social drunks. They know it. Getting out of bed and going to work is foreign to them. They have never done it, don't ever plan to do it and have accepted that as their deal. Does it have to be their deal? No and they readily admit it. They also know folks who got out, hence its possible.

Translate that to a Buddist who came to the US out of the killing fields of Cambodia, not speaking English, with nothing where in two generations their kids are going to college and becomming doctors, scientists, engineers. What does he have in common with the traditional "Protestant work ethic"? Everything. Its what they do, its who they are and it defines their values and goals. Those values shared, coupled with cultural and ethnic differences are what made the US a great society. It is the acceptance of the rejection of those values that is degrading the society.

The black gent sitting on a doorstoop in a US ghetto drinking malt liquor has much in common with the white gent living in a council house. The irony is that they likely both have negative feelings about the other and consider them different.

Both have little in common with the person who gets up and goes to work each day, be that person a small business owner, trade union worker or a hedge fund manager.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by tanser
 


Actually, the leader of the EDL is a complete Nazi. He's even been arrested because of violent conduct, and then skipped bail...and they're wondering why they don't allow their "protest" (which is basically a racism cycle jerk).

Having said that, I believe in free speech. If the EDL/BNP want to make themselves look like the clowns they are, I say let them. Same goes for other fundamentalists and bigots. On the Muslim side the fundamentalists burn US flags, on the US side you have silly nutcase pastors burning Korans. In the end, we shouldn't let those village idiots influence our lives. They're an extreme minority who's views are so far from reality, they're pretty much a bad joke. And the normal people around us should just do the same they do when zapping into a bad comedy program on TV...change the channel and ignore that nonsense.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by juleol
 


While the rest of your post clearly shows you didn't even read the OPs posts, let alone the entire thread, you did make a correct statement here:



The problem in my opinion is immigration politics and lack of integration.


Exactly, now how do we fix that? Segregation? Racism?

Or....

Do we actually force the government and society to treat those people as equals so they can enjoy the same standard of living the rest of us do?

Crime statistics show it all. Income level + education dictates crime rates. It has nothing to do with race or religion, it has everything to do with the environment around them.

Toss a bunch of "whites" into that same ghetto, with the same limited opportunities, and you get the same damn crime rate. But it's much more beneficial to blame it on their race and lock them up, as that creates jobs for WHITE people.
edit on 12-9-2011 by phishyblankwaters because: (no reason given)

I dont know how it is over there, but here immigrants are first thrown into "immigration asylums" with all kinds of cultures and ethnicity mixed. Some end up living there for years before they are either accepted into country or sent back to where they come from. Years in such a asylum not knowing about your future, being around maybe other cultures that completely clash with your own is surely going to have a impact on you.
Some of these people seem to actually get mentally ill by the time they are "integrated".

When they are finally being "integrated" into society they are all thrown into same area left on their own, which leads to ghettos like you were talking about.
Something is wrong when you have whole communities with only immigrants. If you want to integrate someone you have to also expose them to the culture of the country.
Of course this isn't the case with all and there are also plenty of stories with a more happy ending.

Another problem is that extremists sometimes take over these whole communities and implement their own "laws". Some community near Malmø in Sweden is a nice example of that.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by allintoaccount
 


The FACT remains, isolation isn't a prerequisite for evolution


In fact, most of the time such an isolation simply didn't happen...apart on some islands like New Zealand.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by allintoaccount
 

There is no such thing as a "proverty trap" it is an excuse. Its an excuse in the council estates, its an excuse in the barrio and its an excuse in the ghetto.

Get your ass out of bed, get an education, go do miserable work get paid and push your kids to do better than you have done. Is it going to happen overnight? No it does not happen over night anywhere. It takes a couple of generations for it to happen.

It is the same failed argument that inner city people use to disparage the Koreans who pool their money, open small businesses, work 18 hours a day and send their kids to top schools. The folks in the project could have done that, hell the government wants them to do that and will give them loans to do it.

They don't want to do that because its too hard.

Nobody forced someone in a council house to trash their place or join a gang. Nobody forced them to never look for work. I've been to visit family in a council estate in Birmingham, England and I had a great time. We were at the pub all day, drinking pints, playing darts and generally doing what guys do when they are in their 20s. Problem is that these gents are in their late 30s and 40s. They are quite happy hanging out, drinking doing nothing. Can they see a way out? Of course they do, but it would mean getting a job and they are honest enough to tell you straight up that they are not about to do that.

Back to the point on multi-culturalism. My cousins in Birmingham have absolutely nothing in common with a working white person other than their race. They are idle, anti-social drunks. They know it. Getting out of bed and going to work is foreign to them. They have never done it, don't ever plan to do it and have accepted that as their deal. Does it have to be their deal? No and they readily admit it. They also know folks who got out, hence its possible.

Translate that to a Buddist who came to the US out of the killing fields of Cambodia, not speaking English, with nothing where in two generations their kids are going to college and becomming doctors, scientists, engineers. What does he have in common with the traditional "Protestant work ethic"? Everything. Its what they do, its who they are and it defines their values and goals. Those values shared, coupled with cultural and ethnic differences are what made the US a great society. It is the acceptance of the rejection of those values that is degrading the society.

The black gent sitting on a doorstoop in a US ghetto drinking malt liquor has much in common with the white gent living in a council house. The irony is that they likely both have negative feelings about the other and consider them different.

Both have little in common with the person who gets up and goes to work each day, be that person a small business owner, trade union worker or a hedge fund manager.

no such thing as a poverty trap? Wake up! Study social mobility in the u.k. And then you will see there isn't any, the system is set up to keep people down, 2 people earning the minimum wage would have to work 70 hours each just to reach the poverty line,. I don't know any family not receiving benefits even though they work.
You would not survive on a council estate , get an education you say ? By moving to an area with a good school ? Jeeze ,what about those with low i.q? Shoot them? And how can your friends afford to go to a pub? I smell b.s big style, you my friend should really change your aftershave.
I suppose the africans in poverty should take your advice the lazy good for nothings, Jeeze this is why we need a revolution. The mind boggles!



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by allintoaccount
 


They raised education fees to HELP those poor people, don't you get it?



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by allintoaccount
 


The FACT remains, isolation isn't a prerequisite for evolution


In fact, most of the time such an isolation simply didn't happen...apart on some islands like New Zealand.

I think you will find that it is,unless you can give an example?


edit on 12-9-2011 by allintoaccount because: double lines? glitch?



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by allintoaccount
 


They raised education fees to HELP those poor people, don't you get it?

says it all doesn't it?



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by allintoaccount

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by allintoaccount
 


The FACT remains, isolation isn't a prerequisite for evolution


In fact, most of the time such an isolation simply didn't happen...apart on some islands like New Zealand.

I think you will find that it is,unless you can give an example?
I think you will find that it is,unless you can give an example?


How about human evolution? It's not as if we evolved in complete isolation on some island.

In fact, most don't happen in isolation. Take some random monkey for example. It has an ancestor, and it's very likely that one of those ancestors is also related to some other monkey living today. And sometimes those species mix with species that aren't originally from that geographical location. Homo spapiens and Neanderthals are a good example of that. Or take some species of bees in Europe that have genes from African bees.

Tons of examples.

The important thing to note is that only a small variety of species developed in complete isolation. Like the Tasmanian devil, or the Platipus, or some other species that couldn't leave their geographical location or mix with species from somewhere else. There's not that many locations on earth where you stand zero chance at leaving. Islands come to mind, an oasis maybe, some super remote mountain valley...but that's about it.

Or look at the evolution of canines. Wolves often live alongside foxes and domestic dogs. They evolved side by side, not in isolation.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by allintoaccount

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by allintoaccount
 


The FACT remains, isolation isn't a prerequisite for evolution


In fact, most of the time such an isolation simply didn't happen...apart on some islands like New Zealand.

I think you will find that it is,unless you can give an example?
I think you will find that it is,unless you can give an example?


How about human evolution? It's not as if we evolved in complete isolation on some island.

In fact, most don't happen in isolation. Take some random monkey for example. It has an ancestor, and it's very likely that one of those ancestors is also related to some other monkey living today. And sometimes those species mix with species that aren't originally from that geographical location. Homo spapiens and Neanderthals are a good example of that. Or take some species of bees in Europe that have genes from African bees.

Tons of examples.

The important thing to note is that only a small variety of species developed in complete isolation. Like the Tasmanian devil, or the Platipus, or some other species that couldn't leave their geographical location or mix with species from somewhere else. There's not that many locations on earth where you stand zero chance at leaving. Islands come to mind, an oasis maybe, some super remote mountain valley...but that's about it.

Or look at the evolution of canines. Wolves often live alongside foxes and domestic dogs. They evolved side by side, not in isolation.



Oh dear , how can a Specis diversify if it is breeding from the the same gene pool? How does a Specis become a Specis ? By chance ? And then adapt to the environment ? I don't think so. A Specis by definition is seperate, lol . Have fox genes always mixed with domestic dogs? No the dogs have evolved in isolation from foxes or wolves or dogs, foxes and wolves would still be all exactly the same. I'm right you know I am and keep this on topic from now on.......



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by Bleak
Race and culture are inherently linked.


No they're not.

Are you saying that a white Englishman is culturally linked to a white Frenchman ?

Perhaps Greeks, Georgians, Albanians, Bulgarians and Armenians are culturally linked to Icelanders, Swedes and Norwegians because of their ''whiteness'' ?

Many of the ex-British colonies ( white and non-white ) are extremely British in terms of the overriding philosophical ethos which was installed by the British, and which still permeates throughout their nations.

You can't seriously believe that a white Englishman has more of a cultural commonality with a white Albanian than he does with a black Jamaican or Bajan.


Originally posted by Bleak
Regardless, I'm trying to tread lightly here, as I know how PC this board is.


I don't think that ATS is ''PC'' at all. I, personally, am one of the biggest detractors of ''Political Correctness'' that you'll find.

What you'll generally find on ATS is a community of open-minded ( sometimes
) people who want substance to support and back-up their theories and views, rather than reach an uninformed, knee-jerk conclusion.

I'm sure that if you approach the issue of multiracialism in an intelligent manner, with sound arguments to back your viewpoint, then you'll be just fine.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by Bleak
Race and culture are inherently linked.


No they're not.

Are you saying that a white Englishman is culturally linked to a white Frenchman ?

Of course they are. Greco-Roman western culture.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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double.

edit on 12-9-2011 by FOXMULDER147 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
Of course they are. Greco-Roman western culture.


Right. So, if you're defining the similarities between an Englishman and Frenchman as the fact that their cultures are ''Greco-Roman'' ( I always thought that was a type of wrestling
), then that doesn't matter what race the Englishman or Frenchman is, does it ?



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
Of course they are. Greco-Roman western culture.


Right. So, if you're defining the similarities between an Englishman and Frenchman as the fact that their cultures are ''Greco-Roman'' ( I always thought that was a type of wrestling
), then that doesn't matter what race the Englishman or Frenchman is, does it ?

Well, race does not = culture today. You're correct. But it certainly did in the past. And it's from those past Western cultures that we descend, and identity with. And the same vice-versa with people of Eastern origin.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 06:07 PM
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multiculturalism does have something fishy about it.
perhaps from the perspective of a resident in the uk it is what we accept as diverse cultures and races and ethnicities mingling together in the ways that we all do.
so it is not a bad thing from that perspective , it is an environment conducive to sharing and learning.

contribute that the practises of incoming cultures are subject first and foremost to multiculturalism> there is a line drawn on polygamous marriage for example.

the op needs to find out where it becomes a tool on people , it the idea or its enforcement and targeted propagation may have a use of some sort



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:29 PM
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Just to make it clear, I am indeed speaking of race; it's literally impossible to avoid. I thought I made that clear enough in the OP.

Once again, I would like to welcome all liberals to come to a town like mine and experience firsthand the "blessings" of racial diversity. Regardless, I want nothing to do with such a thing; allegations of "racism" and "intolerance" mean not a damned thing to me. I'm the one who actually has to deal with this rubbish, and I think I have every damned right to be angry.

Lastly, it's clear that this board does NOT value truth and free speech; I've already been banned once for trying to speak my mind in a civil fashion, and now I'm getting "warnings" for my activity in this thread. I think this all speaks for itself.

Please, stop running from the truth, people.

Mod Note: The END of Hate Speech, subtle or otherwise, on ATS
edit on 9/12/2011 by maria_stardust because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by Bleak
 


Running from the truth OP isn't Insulting people with the truth.
I value free speech as the next man but all you're force-feeding us is closeted racism.
You'll fit in at Stormfront but as for over here, half of us won't stand and will not take your bull#. If you want to take it somewhere else, go ahead because we can argue this all night.

I've got time and do you ? I'm sorry that you don't like me or any other minority, we're not going anywhere but if you want to leave, the door is wide open.
edit on 12-9-2011 by Heartisblack because: (no reason given)



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