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9/11: Blueprint for Truth. The Scientifically Disproven Official Story.

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posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by TupacShakur
I have a few problems with the NIST report. First off, they didn't test for explosive residues.



See, this is exactly what he was saying.

You do not question their results here. You ask a question about why they didn't do something that you personally think should have been done.

BTW, since ATS'ers seem to love videos, Gage's "Blueprint" video is challenged from top to bottom here:




edit on 16-9-2011 by Joey Canoli because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by Joey Canoli
 


I don't think they should have done that, the NFPA 921: "Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations" does.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by TupacShakur

I don't think they should have done that, the NFPA 921: "Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations" does.



That's a guideline for firefighters to use when investigating a fire of suspicious origin. the origin of the fires is NOT of suspicious origin. Remember the planes/jet fuel?

And again, you have defelected from the fact that you don't have any direct criticism of the NIST report?

Wanna do that? Question their fire models/gas temp findings by running your own analysis and publishing your findings in the J.O.N.E.S.

the software that NIST used is identified and is available for purchase. NIST gave their fuel loading estimates without any coverup. There is nothing preventing you.

That is but one example. Others exist:

1- plane impact damage
2- SFRM removal estimates/claims
3- load transfer results from plane impacts

there is nothing preventing you.

But the TM will do, and has done....... exactly nothing of consequence.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by Varemia

Um, if you say so.



Yes, I do say so ... and the sentence below, just proves it beyond reasonable doubt.




They weren't non-operational, they just weren't prepared. Don't know if you remember 2001, but the US wasn't at war yet.



The US wasn't at war? The United States, has been at war since it was founded. No nation, in the history of the entire world, has been at war as often, as far, and as many times .... period.

The US wasn't prepared ... the media was echoing for months, that UBL was going to attack America. He was said to have attacked the embassy's ...

You seem to have the view, that your government are imbeciles... idiots, that don't plan ahead. idiots, that just go around playing golf, and think it's all going to go away. Is this the same government, that was in grenada, nigaragua, the middle east ... is sending seals and black ops all over the world. Is this the same United States, as was filmed and documented killing women and children in Vietnam?

As I said, you are just a religious freak ... an ignorant redneck, who goes around saying "sieg heil", and "god bless our fuhrer". There is no difference, only the kind of funny accent used.




This is a lot of assuming based on nothing concrete that I can find. The building is held together by horizontal beams,



Really? wow ... I don't care how cheap you build buildings, I wouldn't hire you to build anything, except for a tent ... and even then, I'd expect you to have the intellect to know that even a tent, has vertical beams that are responsible for it to have air inside.

edit on 16-9-2011 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by Joey Canoli

BTW, since ATS'ers seem to love videos, Gage's "Blueprint" video is challenged from top to bottom here:



As I said earlier, this is just religious fanatism, no different than that of the muslims. Set up in a "church" like environment, for the "obvious" purpose of having "church" like or "religious" like truth behind it.

NOTHING that fails a-symmetrically, will change it's nature in mid-event and collapse symmetrically. It defies physics. Unless by design.

There are numerous problems with the NIST. The most obvious is the computer model. You can program a computer, to do just about anything you want it to do. Such a model, is not a proof for anything. It is more suspect, than a proof.

The NIST, and OS ... are setting up a theory ... they need to prove this theory. And it should be very simple to do so, you just make a down-scaled model of the towers, and show me ... that it fails the way it did.

Without such a model, the NIST is just a bunch of paper use ... that defies physics.

Maybe, if you make a tower by cards or dominos, the towers can fail this way. Maybe if you make one out of match sticks, but if you make one, following any rules of building a structure. There is not even a chance in a trillion, that it will ...

But, what it basically comes down to is this ... the structures were faulty, built like dominos or matches, without sufficient fastening between them. So basically, you went to war and killed over a million people, including women and children, to cover up undercut building projects.

I mean, this official conspiracy theory ... isn't going well ...


edit on 16-9-2011 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-9-2011 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by bjarneorn
Set up in a "church" like environment, for the "obvious" purpose of having "church" like or "religious" like truth behind it.


LOL.

Mohr is actually a pastor. that is in fact his church.


NOTHING that fails a-symmetrically, will change it's nature in mid-event and collapse symmetrically. It defies physics. Unless by design.


that's right. It is an unplanned for consequence of this type of building construction.


The NIST, and OS ... are setting up a theory ... they need to prove this theory. And it should be very simple to do so, you just make a down-scaled model of the towers, and show me ... that it fails the way it did.


It doesn't scale. let me explain a little and see if you understand.

First, there is the initial collapse initiation - ie, the first gross downward mavement of the building. It falls "x" distance. And since acceleration due to gravity depends on the time/distance involved... it can't be expected to gain the same velocity in say 2 feet as it can in 12 feet. Therefore, the impact forces will be all wrong, given a building model that is scaled to the same safety factor, since that safety factor is based on statics.


But, what it basically comes down to is this ... the structures were faulty, built like dominos or matches, without sufficient fastening between them. So basically, you went to war and killed over a million people, including women and children, to cover up undercut building projects.


this is basically Skeptic Overlord's belief.


I mean, this official conspiracy theory ... isn't going well ...


Really?

10 years and nothing from truthers?

No arrests of the perps?

LOL.....



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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But, what it basically comes down to is this ... the structures were faulty, built like dominos or matches, without sufficient fastening between them. So basically, you went to war and killed over a million people, including women and children, to cover up undercut building projects.


No way would they have taken a chance on the sub-standard construction of two massive skycrapers located in the heart of America's financial center. If those skyscrapers would have toppled over, they would have caused an incredible amount of property damage to their precious real estate. We know they do not give a damn about lives, but they will kill to protect their property and prized possessions.

Yeah sure...all you debunkers can keep dreaming that this conspiracy is about some currently dead former NYC building inspectors and politicians who received kickbacks to put the precious assets of the elites at risk. What a nice convenient theory that passes the buck off to some dead guys. Whoever came up with this garbage must have really went out on the line.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by bjarneorn
As I said, you are just a religious freak ... an ignorant redneck, who goes around saying "sieg heil", and "god bless our fuhrer". There is no difference, only the kind of funny accent used.


Now that's just silly.


Really? wow ... I don't care how cheap you build buildings, I wouldn't hire you to build anything, except for a tent ... and even then, I'd expect you to have the intellect to know that even a tent, has vertical beams that are responsible for it to have air inside.


I wouldn't hire me either. I'm not an architect, have not gone to any kind of engineering school, and have not had any experience in building anything, let alone tall buildings. I don't see how this has any bearings on how the towers were constructed, and how a collapse would have effected the beams.

And yes, the United States wasn't at war. The reason we weren't prepared is all politics. If you didn't already know, our government is severely corrupt, meaning that peace is bought and war is fought for gain only. 9/11 was just an excuse, really, and I think it's likely that our government allowed it to happen.

I just don't subscribe to the demolitions theory. That's all. I guess that makes me a redneck hillbilly with a PHD in Nazism and segregation, right?



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 



How the tilt was arrested?

I explained that.


That's a stupid ass "theory"... It wasn't "arrested". The potential for it to collase down was stronger than the potential for it to magically slide off.

It just kept tilting to larger and larger angles then? No.

Sliding off =/= tilting.


Unless you know of some horizontal force none of know about the tilting was simply the inital stage of the vertical collapse.

I never said it wasn't. The lack of any significant horizontal forces is exactly what makes the reduction in angular momentum suspicious.


As far as seeing the core goes you, like seemingly EVERY truther don't seem to realise that the outer skin was LOAD BEARING.

I'm aware the exterior columns take a portion of the load, thanks.


You can't bring down the walls, one floor at a time, by destroying ONLY the core.

Oh kay, so you can only do that by NOT destroying the core and having a stronger structure. Got ya.


The explosions would have been timed as well and would have should up as SPIKES at a regular intreval on the .wav of any video taken... guess what... they don't... they didn't happen...

They would have been at the same interval as the floors impacting.


As for free fall velocity, you're right, shouldn't have used the word speed...

You shouldn't have used the word velocity either.
Go read an introduction to mechanics textbook then take a fresh look at 9/11.


this DID NOT look or behave like ANY known demo... and people saying that are being dishonest.

7


You can try and imagine a fanciful scenario where they, for some reason, did all of this elaborate timing nonsense, but it's just soooooo highly implausible...

So getting the timing right would have been the most elaborate and difficult aspect of the plan and therefore makes it implausible?


However the French demo system has these attributes:

No explosives
Accelerating top down collapse
Building falls straight down
triggered by the destruction of a weakened floor in the building...

Deceleration
^ You forgot to mention that one.


Which is more likely? This this which produced EXACTLY the same scenario...

If acceleration instead of deceleration is "EXACTLY" in your book.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by Varemia

I just don't subscribe to the demolitions theory. That's all. I guess that makes me a redneck hillbilly with a PHD in Nazism and segregation, right?




You don't subscribe to the demolition theory, is not a problem ... and no, it doesn't. But if you believe what the Government says, and do like many here, say the government doesn't lie ... then, that does.

GW Bush, like father like son ... everybody in the Universe knew what this guy wanted. And 911 gave it to him, on a gold platter ... not a silver platter, but a gold platter. "bring it on", "We will win this war". Hey, the only difference here, between these words and those of Adolf Hitler, is the language and funny accent used. Most of us, in the modern world, have bashed the Germans for not being more constructive in their critisism against the nazis. Don't you think, we should acquire thoise traits ourselves? huh? seriously? Take a look at these aspects, Vietnam, Mai Lai and Colin Powel. Colin Powel, UN and Iraq. Same guy, two different countries ... both have lots of dead women and children. DO you really think, for one god damn second, that these murderers don't have the audicity to do a false flag operation to get what they want?

We hanged the Germans in Nurnberg, for following orders and not voicing suspicion and questioning their superiors. Well then, in the wage of all the wars ... don't you think we should try on size, the very judgement we put on others, and start questioning our OWN superiors? They are leaving mutilated women and children all over the place.

edit on 17-9-2011 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by bjarneorn
 


I'm pretty sure every single person I've encountered here, including the "debunkers" all say that that the government lies. Hell, I know for an absolute fact that the government lies. My father even remembers in the NSA, looking at classified documents and seeing the president denying everything that was related to them.

In my opinion, it is likely that the government allowed 9/11 to happen by "opening the gates" as you will. With little resistance, the terrorists probably thought Allah was on their side, and strengthened their resolve, managing to hijack four planes in one morning.

I also think that the government agents who would have done it were not expecting the extent of the damage the terrorists would manage to cause.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by Varemia

I'm pretty sure every single person I've encountered here, including the "debunkers" all say that that the government lies. Hell, I know for an absolute fact that the government lies. My father even remembers in the NSA, looking at classified documents and seeing the president denying everything that was related to them.



There is only one problem with this theory ... and that is the fact, that all terrorist attack are singulare attacks. They are suprise attacks, and usually only attack one target. You have to put your bias aside here, and read some military books ... terrorism, is what you will call "insurgency", when the terrorists are on your side. UBL is a CIA asset, used by the allies in Afghanistan, against the russians. The aim, to make Afghanistan something like Saudi Arabia ... west friendly ... I assume.

Now, what you have to see is that 9/11 is amongst terrorism, like a lion amongst cats. It sticks out from the rest, in such a way, that you have to wonder. Sure, it uses a planes and terrorists often do the same ... but we're talking about massive, several incidents at the same time. Not just about the incident themselves, we are also talking about the failure of structures, that defies physics. We're talking about destruction of papers and investigations.

We're talking about something, that defies logic ... something that does not benefit UBL. Does not benefit muslims in general. And here is where you MUST place your logic. Not on the cliche, that terrorists are mad unabombers.

The politics of the world, around 9/11. Is one where the United States is the only superpower in the world. It is unchallenged, but it also a world, where nobody wants to go to war. We all have enough to eat, enough jobs, housing ... virtually everything we need. But in this same world, the Israelis feel themselves threatened in their little territory, while at the same time the US is bound by our passifism, not being able to help them remove the threat around them. The israelis can't go to war, if they do, they virtually face inhialism ... Europe would cut their financial aid, and you'll ask, what? Europe, financial aid? Yes, Germany has to pay them yearly ... still do. If israel went to a war, to remove all the surrounding threats ... they'd face losing that. They can't survive without it. And the US would probably have to follow Europe, on that issue ... leaving Israel, virtually pennyless.

And then you have Iraq, where GW Bush's daddy ... GW Bush the older, really wanted to get Saddam. And the US had been trying every trick in the book, since then. Making new resolutions, after new resolutions, anything to have this guy go on a frenchy, but he always complied, after nagging, but Europe, with France in the lead, always had him comply and a real war, always ended there. So, GW Bush's biggest dream, was to make this happen ... to become a "war president", but nobody wanted it.

This is the political environment you are living in, before 9/11.

And then you have the right wingers, of the United States. The same people that faced shame and defeat, in the Vietnam war. They had to leave, with their tail behind their legs ... because of the way the people in the US, were against the war. These rightwingers, wanted nothing more ... then a revenge of the jockey's. Since the nerds, already had theirs.

You basically had the right wing of the US, pleading for war ... but not getting their wishes.

So, this benefits the right wingers of the US. Not UBL, Europe, the middle east or Russia. The only other element, that has benefitted, financially ... is China.

This you must concider ... and what you have today, is an uprising in the nationalistic parties in the world. The US of A, Europe, even China ... you might think that it was Shanghai Sheck won the war, and not the communist party ... and never have the israeli nationalists been as annoying, as they are today. This is their rise to power ... but we do have a struggle, this struggle you can see on the financial market. What we see here, is that nobody wants to go to war, for real ... they fight, in the finance.

In the end, all you have left. Is the trail of who benefits from the act ... it sure isn't UBL, he's dead. It sure isn't Saddam Hussein, he's dead, nor is it any other islam nation, for that matter. And don't say they calculated this wrong, because those of us who always believed this to be a false flag operation, already predicted at day 1, that what happened, happened as it did. You think UBL, miscalculated GW Bush, the son of GW Bush the elder, who wanted to inhialate Iraq? No. You think the Israelis, miscalculated GW Bush, in that he would do what his father failed to do? No.

Who benefits ... you follow that trail, and you will find who did it.

In reality, it wasn't enough for UBL to hijack planes. He had to know, there was a stand down, to even risk making such a massive attack. No, you don't put all your cards on, unless you are certain it would succeed. So, you're not just talking about the US "letting" it happen. Remember the attack on the US Navy ship, originally thought to be a terrorist attack, but ended up being a "mossad" mistake?

This smells like a false flag operation, and as they saying goes, if it walks, looks and quaks like a duck ... it's a duck.

edit on 17-9-2011 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 09:27 AM
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But the TM will do, and has done....... exactly nothing of consequence.


Yeah sure...that's why you and your associates are on "alleged" conspiracy sites over ten years later pleading your case by parroting disreputable mainstream media/government lies. Seems like a lot of time and effort being expended countering something that is "nothing of consequence".



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by micpsi
9/11 truthers still don't get it. This is not about proving scientifically that the official 9/11 story is false. It's not about proving conspiracy.


This is all I read here ^^^
"This is not about _______"
"This is not about_______"
and "even if we could, the establishment won't allow us to prosecute those responsible...

Call the waaaaabulance for this poster, please!

So tell me...WHAT is it about?
The fact of the matter is: The DEAD? Are already DEAD. They don't rest in peace because they are DEAD.

ASKING questions does not (I repeat) does NOT tarnish their memory nor image Why?
BECAUSE their image and memory do NOT represent HOW they died...but rather HOW they lived...Make sense?


Originally posted by micpsi
9/11 truthers made the fatal mistake of treating the subject as though it was an academic problem and then playing the game of one-up-manship with their fellow truthers over who possessed the correct answers. They never paid attention to the REAL problem: how to sweep aside all the political and judicial obstacles that the American establishment would put in the way of any REAL, public attempt to open the can of worms that would tear America apart for years if this ever happened.


1st and 2nd sentences are nothing but conjectural BS.
The FACT is: WE, the people demand and deserve the TRUTH.
if you perceive this as a pissing contest: then you have mighty issues with deduction and problem solving.

Not to mention YOU blame an entire group (called truthers) for the continued usurpation of our American Freedoms
yet your precious pro-establishment sheeple neighbors (you included) have no issue in walking the streets
like zombies chanting "We are Free" while bending over to pay illegal taxes and become self-corporations
in order to contract with Private Businesses just so you can pay $100 on a $20 widget using a fiat currency and
fraudulent banking system. You're in collusion with said establishment.


Originally posted by micpsi
So keep presenting all your (mostly old) evidence and winning your brownie points on conspiracy theory forums that only a small minority take seriously. It won't bring justice for 3000 murdered people.


Simple math...

Empirical DATA and FACTS > your entire useless and pointless diatribe as well as the official story.

My goal is NOT to bring back the dead, nor to crap on their legacies (that have NOTHING to do with
the way they died) Only that their lives ALL perished in vein BECAUSE the truth, which has been quite apparent
from the perspective of astute observers and keen intellectuals FOR the past 10 years no less, has been demonized and ridiculed (by people like you) because you cannot or will not see reason.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by SphinxMontreal

Yeah sure...that's why you and your associates are on "alleged" conspiracy sites over ten years later pleading your case by parroting disreputable mainstream media/government lies. Seems like a lot of time and effort being expended countering something that is "nothing of consequence".



You should check out my posting history as of late.

I only destroy truther's religious beliefs when I notice my typing skills beginning to slip, for that's all that debating the willfully ignorant is good for...
edit on 17-9-2011 by Joey Canoli because: LOL. typo....



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 12:44 AM
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It's also amazing that no one saw any plane pieces when they got to the pentacon ... but mysteriously appeared later. Because that is exactly what I noticed when they first started videoing the pentacon ... it wasn't until later ... oh look ... where did the plane pieces come from!

This whole thing reminds me of OKC. I was at home watching it all on tv too when it happened. Bombs bombs bombs ... then ... who said anything about bombs. Oh, bombs? They must have belonged to the ATF who had an office in the building. Whatever.

And no one was sniping the Davidians as they tried to escape their church while they government burned it down. Right?

Nawwwww ... our government wouldn't do that! And they are to stupid to cover it up.

But they don't have to cover it up. They can do it in plain sight and then TELL YOU you are stupid for believing in "conspiracy theories."

And of course they can cover it up. National Security. Want to go to prison? ANd of course, we have the PATRIOT Act. Want to disappear? Hell, they're hiding all those pentacon tapes under the guise of National Security. What could possibly harm National Security by releasing all those tape? You mean if we see a Jumbo Jet hitting the pentacon, National Security will be breached?
edit on 18-9-2011 by AgentC because: Add



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:43 AM
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Originally posted by Joey Canoli

That's a guideline for firefighters to use when investigating a fire of suspicious origin. the origin of the fires is NOT of suspicious origin. Remember the planes/jet fuel?


Yeah but when there are dozens of videos of police and firefighters and civilians saying they heard multiple explosions like bombs were going off, then you might think they would suspect some bombs somewhere?



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 05:12 AM
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reply to post by Dystopiaphiliac
 


This is only because you aren't paying a lot of attention.

Many people said it SOUNDED like bombs, which is not saying "We thought there were bombs".

Many others may have THOUGHT there were bombs, but this if minutes after people flew jets into the WTC. I think ANYONE could've thought there were more attacks, bombs, gunmen, etc.

But, something sounding like a bomb, or someone thinking an explosion was caused by a bomb is NOT evidence of bombs.

Here's some evidence of bombs:

Seeing a bomb
Seeing an explosion
Finding bomb parts

None of those things happened on 9/11. In addition to that, demos of two hundred stories would require HUNDREDS of timed explosives, which would be audible and visible. And guess what... that wasn't reported by ANYONE on 9/11.

Even hearing 30 bombs wouldn't be enough.

We're talking about multiple charges for each floor, all exploding BEFORE the floor collapsed. That's say 10 charges for each of the 200+ floors. So... 2000 explosions, give or take.

CAN ANYONE SHOW EVIDENCE OF 2000 EXPLOSIONS?



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 08:44 AM
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reply to post by captainnotsoobvious
 


once again your inability to think comes into play here.....STRATEGICALLY placed charges is how all demolitions work....and if you just need to take out the core of a builing.....then where do you think charges would be placed.

now...i will leave that up to your brain....now thinking that okay...BASE of the building........and on say every ten floors.....suprise......you might find something amazing in these two particular buildings....and also what the dropping hat truss and the Antenna represents.

And yes it is speculation...but all i am doing is showing how your completely over exaggerating what is necessary.....as in any demolition you promote free fall.....do we know this is the case....yes we do...but is it a senario that should have been looked at...yes it is.

once again you have embellished the truth...made assumptions and guessed...without backing up anything your saying in any way shape or form.....if you say a building will take 200 hundred charges.....SHOW IT.

you say charges for each floor....now i don't know ao any demolition that requires each and every floor to be wired...once again show people that it is the case.

HOW STUFF WORKS

now this is simplified but hey it might help you to bash us....also keep in mind that if someone was going to demo the towers....which people seem to always feel...THE typical rules DO NOT apply....this was a demolition....but one must remove the term...CONTROLLED...WHY?....because there was absolutely no need to put in controls were there....all that was needed was to bring the buildings down in the quickest manner possible to make it look like the planes did it.

Also people keep asking why bldg 7 was brought down if this was the case....well we have flt 93 don't we...the unknown target.....well it was heading towards new york.....hmmmmmm....could the target have been bldg7 afterall....

anyways....keep up the good work CAPT.....always glad to see your on the ball



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by plube
 


Check this out


Radio, television, and radar transmitters create fields of electrical energy that can,

under exceptional circumstances, detonate electric blasting caps. Certain precautions must be taken to prevent accidental discharge of electric blasting caps from current induced by radar, radio transmitters, lightning, adjacent power lines, dust storms, or other sources of extraneous or static electricity. These precautions shall include:
Ensuring that mobile radio transmitters on the job site which are less than 100 feet away from electric blasting caps, in other than original containers, shall be de-energized and effectively locked;
The prominent display of adequate signs, warning against the use of mobile radio transmitters, on all roads within 1,000 feet of the blasting operations;
Maintaining the minimum distances recommended by the IMES between the nearest transmitter and electric blasting caps;
The suspension of all blasting operations and removal of persons from the blasting area during the approach and progress of an electric storm.
After loading is completed, there should be as little delay as possible before firing. Each blast should be fired under the direct supervision of the blaster, who should inspect all connections before firing and who should personally see that all persons are in the clear before giving the order to fire. Standard signals, which indicate that a blast is about to be fired and a later all clear signal have been adopted. It is important that everyone working in the area be familiar with these signals and that they be strictly obeyed.


www.osha.gov...

How did they manage to ensure that there would be no accidental detonations or mistakes during the explosive placing procedures over the months before 9/11?

I really think you are overestimating the abilities of the government.




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