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Is there anything other than the bible that says there is a God

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posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by tom502
 


Oh, so thats allegory?




posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 07:07 PM
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If God had wanted us to be certain that He exists then He would reveal Himself to us. I believe that in our pre-mortal life, there were basically two plans presented for all to decide how coming to this earth, and gaining further light and knowledge, should work. One plan (Lucifers) was for us to come to this earth and be forced to be obedient and have a full knowledge of all things, the other plan (Gods) was for us to come down here and exercise our free-agency, and decide for ourselves what we believe, and how we would choose to live. If we knew for certain of God's existence, then it could be argued that we only chose to follow Him because we knew He existed, and were therefore influenced by that fact. I believe God has intentionally not revealed Himself, so that we could exercise faith. That way, no one could argue that we chose to follow God because of pure knowledge, rather we chose because of faith in something/someone bigger than ourselves. This is why being humble (teachable) is necessary to God's plan. So many people want proof, and there just won't be any, because that would thwart God's own plan and purposes for us. But that does not mean that there is no hope. As we follow God's plan, and obey His commandments, we do receive confirmation from time to time that He is there. We have all felt God's love at times. In my opinion, the very earth, moon, and stars, revolving in their perfect order, are a testimony of God's existence. Our souls are further proof. Sure, we could say that we all evolved from monkeys, but then what is it that makes you, you, and me, me? It is our spirits. Our spirits had to be created, as well as our bodies. We are all spirit children of God. Our bodies were created by our earthly parents, but our spirits were created by God.



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by rigel4
 


I'm an atheist.

I'll openly admit there MIGHT be a god but why should that cause nagging doubts? Are you afraid there might be a Hell? Well then you'll need to be fearful of dozens of different underworlds or versions of Hell as well as what happens when you're reincarnated into a worm instead of a human.... Point is that there's no reason to worry about supernatural consequences and no reason why you can't make up your mind without being absolutely certain one way or the other.

It sounds to me like your agnostic, so are most atheists and so are most theists. Atheism and theism deal with belief, agnosticism and gnosticism deal with knowledge. Only a sith deals in absolutes

edit on 11-9-2011 by Titen-Sxull because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-9-2011 by Titen-Sxull because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


dontreally,

Thank you for such a beautiful explanation. I know in my heart, mind and being that what you have put forth is truth and eloquently done at that. As I may have used other words to describe this series of understandings, the truths remains the same. Thank you so much for expressing it for all to see.

As I was 12, at the time I asked that question, I have come to understand many truths throughout my life, some of them easy to understand and yet others are known to me and understood but have yet to become wisdom within my heart. I am not yet the Soul I wish to be.

I have written many posts and a few threads on these subjects, and I invite you to read through them at your will.

Thank you again for this most precious post.

Agarta



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by Agarta
 


I unconsciously quoted you, and then i just sort of began writing, with not much conscious attention. Sorta weird since youre actually quite a nice person.


Im glad i quoted you.

Also, i have far too much humility, or i hope to think i do, because all i really care about is to be a good person. If my personal philosophy/theology leads me anywhere, let it make me better, kinder, wiser, simpler, more understanding. But may i neve forget the importance of being a good person.

I sometimes read the philosophy of some people; gnostics, satanists ie; dualistic theologies, who make such horrendous exceptions towards evil: lying, stealing, killing, sexual perversity etc and im just sickened.

Yes, i know this stuff can be rationalized, but it deviates too far from real human needs. It pretends man is god, when we are not god. We are so far from being good, and how many tyrants need to fall ignominiously before people realize the futility and pointlessness in fighting against God, and good??? It'll lead nowhere.

Paradoxically, freedom comes when you acknowledge youre not free to do whatever you want. That there is a tremendous power, and awareness that comes from the responsibility of knowing "I am here for a purpose". I am here to be good, and to strengthen the power of good, and righteousness and peace in the world.

Thats all i want. That is what a true, selfless human being wants. It is True, and so we long for its fulfillment, not just in our hearts, but in the world.

If anyone differs, they are egotists. Self absorbed, egotists who are willing to sacrifice others for their egotistical ambitions.



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 09:27 PM
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And might i add. They know they are, and they do not care. In their world, which they believe to be the true world, God doesnt exist. And if he does, hes a demiurge, a projection of mans own faculty of cogitation - order making.

Hence the Anthropos precedes that state of consciousness, and so, being beyond the power of the demiurge, they feel they can do what they want, when they want, without punishment, because they are gods who do not acknowledge the concept of law and therefore do not experience the phenomena of sin... They probably even preserve their ego in a sublte astral body for when they die. So for them, there is no difference between life and death, this world or another. One simply discards one body and puts on another at birth. Or who knows what else sorcerors tricks these people may have? Metaphysics is a strange art, and there is a very dark and evil knowledge which allows people to manipulate these energies.



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by rigel4
You know, all my life I have been pulled this way and that, believing or trying to believe in God and then
changing my mind, but I never truly let it go.

There is always the nagging doubt that there might be a God.

But suppose there is, is there any way to know, does anyone know, or is all down to the bible.
What if we had no bible , how would God be known to us.

I have often wondered about a scenario i have thought out. say a child is born and grows up with no knowledge
of Bibles and Gods. Would this child ever no God, or would the child just go through life wondering the same things we do without ever knowing or wondering about God.

I think the child would never know God!

Just wondering what others thought about this.


Here is a good place to begin on my point of view my friend, but it is worthless tripe at this point.

God is just a word my friend. What that word represents is what matters. No one knows what a child who has never been taught about God will deduce from the experience except a child who has never been taught about God.

God is the experience of existing. You are the "experiencer" of your existence. Your experience will be your teacher, master, and God.

We are all Children to God.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 09:48 PM
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The Majesty of creation, both seen without, and intuited within. We know there is a God deep inside.

"Be still and know that I am God"



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by rigel4
 


The Torah ?




posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by tom502
 


Oh, so thats allegory?



Not sure what you mean.
It's philosophical.

I think many who are raised as Christians are taught to believe there is a physical "God" that is like an old man with a big beard in the clouds watching, and controlling everything. I don't believe that is what "God" is. And I think if one starts to seek "God" in that way, they will be disappointed. But I find for myself, the Eastern approach, such as in the Bhagavad Gita, and I also like Shankara's Advaita Vedanta too, just makes sense to me.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by juveous
 


This is exactly it.

God fills the void as an answer to that void, even if God doesn't exist. Understand? God is simply a placeholder for the unknown and unexplained.

For some, their void is so large that God is everything to them. It's the nightlight in the room to make you feel safe for the dark.

Just an answer for the unanswered. Nothing more.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by rigel4
But suppose there is, is there any way to know, does anyone know, or is all down to the bible.
What if we had no bible , how would God be known to us.


Yes, God is available outside of the Bible. As others have mentioned there are many other religious texts that discuss an ultimate creator. Personally I think every text has its errors, but they all point towards the great truth that there is an ultimate, perfect being that created all things including us.

There's also the Ontological Argument, a philosophical argument that dates back nearly 1000 years that states (in broad terms) that if you can imagine a God as being "that than which a greater cannot be thought" then He therefore must exist simply because it's possible to imagine Him. It's a very deep concept and exceeds what can be typed here, but if you Google it you'll find plenty of resources.

Then there's also the world around us that in my opinion shouts to the existence of a creator. This is how I came to believe in God as a child, I saw structure, order and intelligent design everywhere I looked. And when I called to Him He responded, and has continued to do so in amazing ways throughout my life.

Believing in God is one thing, but determining the nature of God is an entirely different, and much more difficult task. In fact I would argue that it's impossible for us, we don't have the capacity to understand a being that has always existed, can create universes, yet has the kindness to stop to consider the smallest of His creations. I think the Bible comes closest to describing Him, but it's not without its flaws.


Originally posted by rigel4
I have often wondered about a scenario i have thought out. say a child is born and grows up with no knowledge
of Bibles and Gods. Would this child ever no God, or would the child just go through life wondering the same things we do without ever knowing or wondering about God.


There are many, many stories in this world of people who were raised in non-Christian religions receiving visions of Jesus- a figure that for many of them is a complete mystery because they've been raised to dismiss Him as unimportant. It seems hard to believe to someone that lives in the US or UK, but there are still many countries where Jesus is taboo and people are raised to adulthood having heard very little about Him and having read nothing. Anyway, there are many reports of conversions due to these people receiving visions and then wanting to learn more about Him and turning to Christian churches, at great personal peril due to the environments they live in. I'm a skeptic by nature and dismissed these claims when I started hearing about them, but at this point I've heard so many similar stories from different sources that I'm now convinced they're not all being fabricated.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by tom502
 





It gives a rational logical explaination of "God".


You said this.

And yes, the Bhagavad Gita speaks through allegory, as all sacred texts do; including the Bible.

My point was, dont assume the Bible doesnt talk about the philosophical-metaphysical nature of God just because youve never been taught that inner meaning. Just like the Bhagavad Gita, but much more subtly, the stories we read in the Bible have a Metaphysical significance.

You just finished explaing the various aspects of the Hindu Godhead.

In Hebraic thought, God is spoken of in allegorical terms aswell.

The name YHWH, has a metaphysical significance. As does every other name, word, and symbol used in the Bible.

And i also dont think any ancient texts are qualitatively better then the better, It really just depends on your perspective and how feel, or rather, how you reason God relates with his creation.

The name YHWH means "being", "eternity", and is the essence of all reality.

The name Elohim is the name used to create the world. Elohim is the power of contraction, limitation, "the word". It has the same numerical value as HaTeva - nature. Elohim is plural, and can be read as "gods" or "powers" ie; the multitudinous phenomena of existence.

So keep that in mind when youre reading the bible. It too has a profound metaphysical doctrine underneath.

And yes, i agree. Christians should learn the bible at its philosophical level. However, that doesnt seem to be what Christian leaders want. Keep the masses ignorant, and you can control them.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by WickettheRabbit
 


Some people have a strange way of percieving God.

Get this: God is both the cosmos, and the void. And he gives "creation" to both.

People seem to forget that the void is still a concept, percieved by a created being as the essence of nothingness, sort of like the vast expanse of outer space.

But God is beyond both. The void is merely the necessary container for creation to take place. The former merely exists to facillitate the latter.

This is what the Kabbalah means when it says "the higher unity and the lower unity are in truth one".. The higher unity is the experience of the void, where everything is unified in the most radical sense possible. The lower unity is this world, which we percieve to be multifacited.

The void and this world are to be united, not merely through "Gnosis", but through service to the good. By resisting the influence of the impaired cosmic forms - the kelipah - and raising them back to their divine origin, in the original thought and mind of God.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by rigel4
 


Well before christianity there were thousands of other gods made up by the people before them. In early times it was very common to have a god for everything The Romans, Greeks, early Jews etc all pray(ed) to an assortment of different gods for different things. That should help clear things up.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


And I'm telling you that God is a fairy tale...a fable...to help the people that are missing the meaning of life to have a construct of a meaning.

Now catch me in a week and I might be back on to the God thing, but not today.



posted on Sep, 12 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by tom502
 





It gives a rational logical explaination of "God".


You said this.

And yes, the Bhagavad Gita speaks through allegory, as all sacred texts do; including the Bible.

My point was, dont assume the Bible doesnt talk about the philosophical-metaphysical nature of God just because youve never been taught that inner meaning. Just like the Bhagavad Gita, but much more subtly, the stories we read in the Bible have a Metaphysical significance.

You just finished explaing the various aspects of the Hindu Godhead.

In Hebraic thought, God is spoken of in allegorical terms aswell.

The name YHWH, has a metaphysical significance. As does every other name, word, and symbol used in the Bible.

And i also dont think any ancient texts are qualitatively better then the better, It really just depends on your perspective and how feel, or rather, how you reason God relates with his creation.

The name YHWH means "being", "eternity", and is the essence of all reality.

The name Elohim is the name used to create the world. Elohim is the power of contraction, limitation, "the word". It has the same numerical value as HaTeva - nature. Elohim is plural, and can be read as "gods" or "powers" ie; the multitudinous phenomena of existence.

So keep that in mind when youre reading the bible. It too has a profound metaphysical doctrine underneath.

And yes, i agree. Christians should learn the bible at its philosophical level. However, that doesnt seem to be what Christian leaders want. Keep the masses ignorant, and you can control them.


Oh, no, that's not my post. I didn't write all that. That's someone else's text.



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