Bush is showing weakness, Kerry was a hero

When playing poker (or politics) and someone "hedges" their position it's because they are unsure of it.

Bush has backpeddled on Kerry's war record claim

now-

Bush praises Kerry's war record Melbourne Herald Sun "John Kerry served admirably and ought to be proud of his record," Mr Bush told reporters at a press conference after a meeting of his top military and defence aides at his Texas ranch.

Milwaukee Jouranl Online Attack on Kerry's war record riles GOP rep "I just think it's wrong." That's not one of Kerry's fellow Democrats talking. It's Terry Musser, a Republican state rep, longtime chairman of the Assembly Committee on Veterans and Military Affairs, and the co-chairman of Wisconsin Veterans for Bush.
"Kerry was saying he was in Cambodia, and you have some of the other ones saying he wasn't in Cambodia. It's like, who do you want to believe. I was in the Central Highlands. They could have sent us into Laos. I wouldn't have had a clue. There are no signs saying, 'Welcome to Thailand,' 'Welcome to Vietnam.'

HUNDREDS of stories world wide and all within hours.

Now that Bush has retreated the OLD attack dog of the Republican party (AKA Bob Dole) chimes in

Bush has long wanted a real slime issue to paint on Kerry, now he is hedging his bets. While he withdraws a vinagary Bob Dole steps up.

Oh crap.

Bush won.

He slung enough dirt that even if none was true Kerry is soiled in everyone eyes (where there's smoke there's fire thinking). Kerry can't use his war record as a part of his campaign, nor can he now point the finger at Bush's LACK of a war record. (which is the real crime)

By backing off now Bush also gets the kudos for being a good sport. So he wins BOTH ways.

Originally posted by Netchicken
By backing off now Bush also gets the kudos for being a good sport. So he wins BOTH ways.

We can't BUMP on this board, so-

I agree

Originally posted by Netchicken
Bush's LACK of a war record. (which is the real crime)

If Bush's lack of a war record was a crime most male baby boomers would be in chains. Bill Clinton would be serving life without parole.

What about your war record, NetChicken?

Bush served honorably in the Air National Guard. Not the most heroic of ways, but nothing to sneeze at. The ANG is a very potent fighting force in its own right.

The whole "War record" thing should be dropped...period...both served...and both deserve atleast that much respect for doing so...

Originally posted by BasementAddix
The whole "War record" thing should be dropped...period...both served...and both deserve atleast that much respect for doing so...

Why? Kerry made it the cornerstone of his campaign. He opened the pandoras box. Now he is desperate to close it as his record comes under scrutiny. The heavy handed SLAP suit at the Swift Boat Vets, the lying about Cambodia, etc etc. No dount the Dems want to put an end to it lest they actually have to answer the questions with facts!

He shouldnt have lied about it...I agree with that...and it was DUMB AS HELL for him to make it such a huge point in his campain...and believe me...Im no fan of the man...but even still...he was there...on his own accord...he should get respect for that....Now him marching along with fonda...thats a entirely different story...

Originally posted by BasementAddix
He shouldnt have lied about it...I agree with that...and it was DUMB AS HELL for him to make it such a huge point in his campain...and believe me...Im no fan of the man...but even still...he was there...on his own accord...he should get respect for that....Now him marching along with fonda...thats a entirely different story...

I for one have never questioned his service. No doubt he was there and he was under fire. But as I pointed out above he chose to embellish his record into a larger than life image of himself in Vietnam. Hero? Not a chance. My grandfather who softly spoke about his exploits in WWII (purple heart, bronze star etc) was much more of a hero than Kerry was or claims to be.

And I dont doubt that...Like I said...I dont think it was wise for Kerry to make himself such a hero in regards to his service...but still...I do give him credit for going...its just not something Id read about book about if you know what I mean...

Originally posted by BasementAddix
And I dont doubt that...Like I said...I dont think it was wise for Kerry to make himself such a hero in regards to his service...but still...I do give him credit for going...its just not something Id read about book about if you know what I mean...

Kerry went to Vietnam because he had political aspirations. When he volunteered for Swift Boats, they were only being used to ferry VIP's from ship to shore and back. It was after he was on his way that their mission was changed. He was stuck then, But hey it only took him 4 months to get out. How many vets left vietnam after 4 months because of the three purple hearts.

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by BasementAddix
The whole "War record" thing should be dropped...

Why? Kerry made it the cornerstone of his campaign. He opened the pandoras box.

100% agreement. Why Kerry chose to be another (in a long list) of one of the ex-military that campaign on their military service is beyond me.

What was going on when they both entered the service and was there a draft were they gogin to be inlisted on way or another ? Or maybe both of them knew that if they were Drafted how well that would look or what kinda crap they would have to put up with the over booked Basic training camps and everything ... that goes along with it ... maybe they are both wusses that whimped out of everything George Bush being the bigger wuss ... b/c he stayed here when Kerry went there ... They both graduated from the same college and then took different paths from there maybe someone should do more research on which classes they took during college maybe we should do a psychalogical evaluation of both of the men to see which one would better be fit for the presidency or maybe we should put together a questionaire for the election and whomever scores best out of 100 questions wins and becomes president bt what would the questions be ???? I bet if you have to narrow it down the fact of the past wars that we have been in and the "war on terrorism" ... would not even be brought up it would be the believs of each man and exactly what he or she believed in ... Does it really matter about the past when ever we are voting for the future ? Or does history repeat itself and the fact that John Kerry has 3 purple hearts going to make him a better president and also that he still hass a peice of shrpnel in his leg going to make him a better president ? Or the fact that in the last 4 years through all of the Oil Prices rising up and down and all the other stuff thats going on the COLA .. has only increased by .01 % that is .0001 that is just tremendous increase of Cost of Living is it not ... ??? I wonder what would have happend if the 17 bills that George Bush voted to pass and Kerry voted not to Pass would have passed and we would have Better equipted armour on our soldiers I wounder if that would have saved one life would that really have mattered to the mom and dad and sisters and brothers that have lost family over there ? I wonder I wonder I wonder ? we coudl sit here and wonder all day long ... what if what if the FACT is that no matter what anyone sais noone really knows anything about anything so if you do get the chance to vote then vote ... who knows ... What may happen ... The only and Best advice I can give to all of you is make sure you feel like you are doing the right thing and realize that eeryone makes mistakes ... like me not voting thi year that could be a mistake but that is not going to change the fact .. =-) ... Toodles ..

Originally posted by PublicGadfly

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by BasementAddix
The whole "War record" thing should be dropped...

Why? Kerry made it the cornerstone of his campaign. He opened the pandoras box.

100% agreement. Why Kerry chose to be another (in a long list) of one of the ex-military that campaign on their military service is beyond me.

Simple. It's all he has. His congressional record is an embarrassment and wouldn't standup under the scrutiny it would be put through in the media. You can catch glimpses of it now, even though he isn't putting it in the forefront of his campaign.

Originally posted by bet555
. . . put together a questionaire for the election and whomever scores best out of 100 questions wins and becomes president. . .

Great concept. In a way we are in the 100 question phase now. Postures, past records, pronouncements all get scrutinized.

Look at Howard Dean! He was running hot and heavy until his 'milk-toast' Israel statements. This should tell people something in and of itself.

The only ones worrying about this are the Media Heads, since they want to boil every serious issue down to a hissy slap fight for mass consumption by the great unwashed hordes.

"Bush served honorably" - Bush has not done a single honorable thing in his life of overt priveledge, and especially not in the circa 1960's National Guard. The Guard of today is everything claimed about being a capable fighting force. Back then, it was a country club. Even if you throw out the legitimate facts that he bailed out early and was absent from drills and refused the physical exam that would have showed his drug use, thus being grounded from flight, just look at his test scores of record to get into flight school.....200 men scored higher. Complete lack of honor there in being a Senator's son jumped to the head of the line.

"Congressional Record an embarassment" - You mean like uncovering the Iran/Contra crimes against the US? He's done more than the Senate stalwarts ( Stom Thurmond, Jesse Helms, Bill Frist, Newt Gingrich) combined.

"Kerry made it the cornerstone of his campaign" - WRONG. I know amnesia is a critical tool in the mental blinders mode needed for supporting our first president with a criminal record, but follow me here:
- Rove Republicans demanded Kerry's military records be opened when Bush's were being clamored for ( they had the shredders working O/T then, huh!?! )
- They then brought up "Leadership", after somehow forgetting that Rove/Cheney had 12 deferments between them and Bush went AWOL from a stateside assignment. Kerry, a decorated war hero who served in battle AND stayed on reserve duty until the late 1970's.

As for wanting to "put an end to it" - it serves the Dem contenders cause because it will blow up in the Rove Republican's faces. There will be tremendous backlash because of it. The win-win in on the Dem side....stop it now - Bush must talk about the issues, don't stop it now, American's get more disgusted.

I would also comment on something here: The GOP has been hijacked, and it's not a new phenomenon. It lost me from being a Republican after my first Regean vote. It's lost numerous board members to the Libertarian & Democratic parties. But for those who blindly remain: you deserve better. You have the first encumbent in the modern era not running on his first term, but running a negative campaign as if he were not one. You deserve better. Answering questions, showing solutions, all of it. That's not been happening.
I'd also recommend at least learning something about the other people running; the frequency that your misquotes & misrepresentations of Kerry's position clearly shows that you're single sourcing your information.....and it's all GOP partisan.

Both of the men have made mistakes everyone agree ?? OK good glad we could get that outta the way now which one would make a better president, Commander and Cheif, ... which one is willing to listen to there advisors I mean they have a whole PANEL of president advisors so Ithink that is what we are voting on not really the president himself but the presidents ability to take september , 11 break it down in less than a month know which country to attack is not even close to what he has to figure out he has to figure out what is going to keep us in good standing with the rest of the world first which is going to take time because believe it or not they have to communicate with one another they do not just read each others minds .. I know that is a hard concept for some to believe but it is just like in anything else if someone sais something you better write it down and record it ... so it is not just held in good faith ... people lie cheat and steal everyday ... not just on a small scale .... you just have to keep that in mind .. so all the stuff that happend in the last 4 years look at are economy and look how poor it is ... and look round you noone is spending money ... YEAH RIGHT !!! The economy is looking up ... Everything is goign to be ok no matter who you put in this election president bush made sure that he woudl put the nation in a position where it could not be tumbled over in the next 4 years ... now that is a good president ... He can honestly say that he gave his all while he was in office and made the best decisions that he could have made on the amount of intellect and knowledge that he had.

"He can honestly say that he gave his all while he was in office and made the best decisions that he could have made on the amount of intellect and knowledge that he had."

I'm all for hiring the handicapped, but does Leader of the Free World qualify on the jobs list of Habitat for Humanity!?!?!?!?!

Bout Time
not many disabled do, lol

(great ava!)

Originally posted by Bout Time
"Kerry made it the cornerstone of his campaign" - WRONG. I know amnesia is a critical tool in the mental blinders mode needed for supporting our first president with a criminal record, but follow me here:
- Rove Republicans demanded Kerry's military records be opened when Bush's were being clamored for ( they had the shredders working O/T then, huh!?! )
- They then brought up "Leadership", after somehow forgetting that Rove/Cheney had 12 deferments between them and Bush went AWOL from a stateside assignment. Kerry, a decorated war hero who served in battle AND stayed on reserve duty until the late 1970's.

As for wanting to "put an end to it" - it serves the Dem contenders cause because it will blow up in the Rove Republican's faces. There will be tremendous backlash because of it. The win-win in on the Dem side....stop it now - Bush must talk about the issues, don't stop it now, American's get more disgusted.

. . . The GOP has been hijacked. . .

GREAT post!

You got my last point!

I had forgotten (amnesia) about the war record stuff. I agree with you on the GOP being hijacked. In my state and at least one other Republican governors were elected on the old "clean up and no taxes" cry. Both governors immediately tried to pass monstrous tax increases. My state defeated the increase by 62%+ This tore the GOP to shreads. The anger over the force used and the claims made is still there, two years later.

Kerry used his Vietnam War record as a 'cornerstone' of his campaign? Some say nay and some say yay.....nonetheless, even if the naysayers are partially correct, that is all that they are: partially correct. You see, Kerry DID and IS still trying to use his Vietnam War as proof that he is and has legit right to be Pres.

You see peeps, namely BT and PG, methinks that Kerry is flailing in too many directions in his seriously frenzied attempt to stifle/control the whole Vietnam fiasco that HE, yes, you heard it right, He....John Kerry started himself!!

Now he wants an investigation into the relationship between Bush and the Switfties?!? He wants Bush to denounce the before mentioned Swifties?! Edwards is clammering that it is a mistake by Bush if he doesn't?! Let me ask you, BT and PG, a question: WTF are you guys smoking or have been smoking lately?

All the while, Kerry has the Press stumping for him, he has the primetime news orgs and outlets stumping for him and making triffle excuses, he has fat-arse Michael Moore and his so-called "Documentary" stumping for him, he has some so-called "authors" stumping and promoting anti-Bush rhetoric for him......did I forget anything else BT and PG?!

Wait!!! Let me guess, he wants to tie the hands of Bush while he, himself, continues to spew all sorts of fabrications about his "war" record?!
I get it......
Bush Bad!.....Kerry Good?!
No No No.....
Mr. Kerry has hit a freaking wall my two good buddies.....a wall called disbelief and denial, and frankly, Mr. Kerry is having a hard time dealing with it!
I tell you two what.....DENY these, k?
* John Kerry photograph hangs in a place of honor in the Vietnamese Communist war Remnants Museum in Ho Chi Minh City. Oh, btw, you are aware why Siagon was changed to Ho Chi Minh City, right?!

* John Kerry�s false testimony, yes, given before the United States Senate, about alleged American war crimes was played on loud speakers to POW's and that because it was, many were totured and forced to sign documents confessing to these "supposed" war crimes that Mr. freakin'Kerry lied about and of.

* John Kerry carried a typewriter and an 8-mm home movie camera with him to Vietnam so he could record his own over-exaggerated version of his war exploits and staged reenactments of his combat actions to advance his own political career? Wtf.....is with all that?

* And lastly and the most BS'ing of all: All three of John Kerry's Purple Hearts were for minor injuries, so minor in fact, that they easily could have been treated with band-aids, not requiring a single hour of hospitalization..........

Yes, BT and PG, you both will certainly be proud to vote for this man, hell, your both probably working class-millionaire's like him.....
Three cheers for the working-class poor, the ignorant, and of course, the stupid (down-trodden).



seekerof