Problems with the new Jobs Bill... already

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


solyndor and evergreen got their free money

more said

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Aihttik

 

unions
union pensions
government jobs
government pensions
social weldare programs named social security medicaid and medicare.

Are unrelated buzz words that get your shorts a little tighter but do nothing to answer what I asked. Got any numbers or are you just repeating what you hear on the radio?

thats where not all but a huge chunk thats where borrowing from china comes in to pay the government and when that doesnt cut it taxes

Can you read my actual post?

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Absolutely, and they got even more from the Obama admin, especially when times got tough... But it still wasn't enough... What does that tell you?

It tells me that you are suggesting that maybe we should just pay caterpillar to give people jobs? Pay them to stay in the United States. Give them 150% tax break. They will still outsource jobs anyway. That is what that tells me. What does it tell you?

In Caterpillar's own words:

With our partners and customers, we are building our future in Greater China.

Nuff said?

Yup. More than enough to dispels that myth that they are moving overseas because taxes are too high.

reply to post by Aihttik


Caterpillar is only one example of a US company doing this, there are many more.. whether you look to blame a president, or politics, policies, taxes or anything else.. It is all irrelevant.

Unless these problems are confronted full force, nothing this president or government does now, or in the future is going to improve the jobs situation long term... They can only throw federal money at it, in enhanced spending and stimulus funds and hope to slow the hemorrhaging of jobs.

Economic decline is assured to continue otherwise, but, where the USA declines, China, India and others are ascending.

Slowly over time.. The transfer of US wealth and power continues unhindered...

Wow, so is Obama trying to create a permanent govt college program like the public school system, where he and his socialist buddies can have complete control over the curriculum and not have that darned private sector interfering in their indoctrination program?


Maybe I'm a bit ahead of that curve, but it's what came to mind...

reply to post by GovtFlu


Congrats to GovtFlu, for being our winner today in this thread as poster #5 to be the first to reach Godwin's Law!

OP, very cogent and well thought-out post. And completely on the money. My biggest problem with this new "jobs plan" is that government doesn't create jobs, it creates work. It is a closed ecosystem, as money is just recirculated. Workers are paid by the government with money they paid to the government.

Not only that, Obama is cutting taxes (revenue) and increasing spending to fund this program. So he's cutting the flow of money coming into the government coffers, and increasing money flowing out of the government coffers. Even Keynes would slap the stupid out of him.

The only way Obama is going to be able to pay for this is to allow the Federal Reserve to print more money, causing inflation. He can maybe hope that the other way the government gets revenue, selling bonds, will get him that revenue, but it's unlikely enough will be sold to cover it.

/TOA

reply to post by PLASIFISK

How has Obama affected your day to day living ie. Life style since he took office?

My cost of living has gone up, my income has gone down, my unemployment ran out so now I am working two part-time jobs and trying to start a business, all the while trying to finish a degree in (probably vain) hopes of finding a decent job.

Oh, yes, and those cigarette tax increases raised the retail price of tobacco 250%. Now I have to roll my own because I can no longer afford to pay the taxes.

You all have identified alot of issues with the state of our country. What would you do if you were the prez to fix these issues in a manner that would please congress, the government with in the government, the american people, and lastly the american people who will never be pleased?

• I would start by repealing Obamacare and a lot of the other nonsensical regulations that businesses have to put up with... like having to do an environmental survey to the tune of thousands upon thousands of dollars just to see if they have permission to invest money in new facilities.
  
  
• Second, I would remove every single US tax break aimed toward companies who employ workers outside the USA.
  
  
• Third, I would start moving troops back home as fast as practical from all these useless police actions around the globe we are involved in, yet which do not aid national security interests. As they return, I would have a new deployment ready for them: the construction of a double-walled fence from Brownsville to San Diego, with a no-man's land between them. Anyone caught between the fences would run the risk of being shot on sight.
  
  
• Fourth, I would press for a new law that provided for jail time for anyone in the US who knowingly or recklessly hired illegal aliens. Fines can be passed on to consumers; jail time cannot.
  
  
• Fifth, I would implement Phase I of my own health care proposal, aimed at making sure all Americans get health care and all health care providers can operate in the black, without placing a ton of unfunded mandates on the people or the health care industry.
  
  
• Sixth, I would remove the corporate income tax. That money is already taxed after distribution, and does not deserve to be taxed twice.
  
  
• I would implement one of Obama's proposals: a tax credit toward any employer who hired an American full-time, with the credit size being dependent on how long that worker had been unemployed and how high the wages are.
  
  
• I would also allow drilling operations in some of our national preserves, only under conditions that the oil drilled out be used for our national needs and that the land had to be drilled within a specified time limit to stop companies form buying up resources and then sitting on them.

That's the start... from there you see how it goes and move accordingly.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


Damn Redneck, if you'd throw in there a dramatic effort to reduce the entire size and scope of the federal government, you'd get my vote.

Too bad, common sense isn't allowed to run for president in the USA.

reply to post by Fractured.Facade

Hahahaha... when it comes to reducing the size and scope of government, I make Ron Paul look like a liberal.

I actually like everything he says with one exception: you can't just pull troops out of a conflict suddenly. They have to back out slowly and gracefully. The easiest way to get shot in the back is to turn and run.

We need to get them out, but we also have to be practical about the matter... hence my statement I would get them out as soon as practical.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


Mmm those are some seriously good ideas Redneck! Too bad we won't see any such ideas from our officials. [good ones I mean]

reply to post by TheRedneck


You make a perfect example of how the Government should be run, while simultaneously providing a perfect example as to why Democracy is the worst form of government .. only an absolute authority could exact the changes we really need in a timely manner .. we are as it is, doomed to fail by our own adamant persistence that Democracy is the only true form of Government.

Originally posted by Rockpuck


Only $240 billion would actually go to roads, the rest is a tax cut for the poor (because getting more back than what they pay in wasn't enough) ..

Who will spend it buying Chinese made stuff.
So this is just election preparation PR.

Re: Tax credits to small businesses

This one is absolute proof that they do not have a clue about how us small business owners think and how we decide to hire employees.

First, the proposed tax credit is only a very tiny fraction of what it will cost me to employ a person.

Second, thanks to Obamacare, I really dont have a good handle on what that employee is actually going to cost me.

Third, I'm starting to see regulations that make it much more difficult for me to fore or lay off someone. I sure as hell am not going to hire if I may not be able to fire.

Fourth, i'll hire employees when I can forecast enough long term business to support them. Every week I meet another. Business owner who has 'gone galt' because the torrwnt of new federal regulations has just made it not worth it to expand.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Awesome informative thread sir. Its true. There are A LOT of jobs. You might have to build a new skill set, but thats part of growing, regardless of your age and condition. Youve got to adapt. And its not like the only jobs available are janitorial positions at McDonalds. There are more professional career oriented positions available than minimum wage jobs in LA county, just to take one region as an example. If I wasn't a a full time student with goals of his own already, I wouldve taken a year long certificate course in accounting and gotten one of thousands of bookkeeping jobs at 15-20$ an hour I see in listings everywhere. Seriously this economy is looking for truly skilled workers, not just degree holders anymore. Either you develop and master a trade of your own, or go back to school! Start your own practice! Get that loan and take the risk. These are best times to be living in. Its fun to be challenged.

reply to post by TheRedneck


S+F. Obama is just beating a dead horse trying to get more work out of its carcass than it can give. Notice how were gently being nudged here and there towards a one world order? Our government is totalitarian, and as the world economy goes bellyup its going to be more and more evident as were pushed into the United States of Planet Earth in order to create a new type of pay system now that the entire world is finding out that money is unreliable and they start tying Bankers up to crosses to be crucified for their sins against humanity.

Yeah that Roman Empire that died 1700 years ago? Its about to be reborn on a scale that would scare the sh*t out of Julius Caesar himself.

Welcome, to the beginnings of the Tribulation and youre going to see things that will make you think you've gone cuckoo for cocoa-puffs.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Wow, so is Obama trying to create a permanent govt college program like the public school system, where he and his socialist buddies can have complete control over the curriculum and not have that darned private sector interfering in their indoctrination program?


Maybe I'm a bit ahead of that curve, but it's what came to mind...

edit on 10-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

Oh wait... I forgot

The private sector is busy throwing itself at us several thousand times each and everyday.

I carry around a direct link to the private sector now (cell phone)

As far as I know there are plenty of institutions, ones that will include a conservative focus or a Christian
and conservative focus.

I do not buy the fact that conservative values are sparse in society, you sound as if you think teachers aren't
equipped with wills and opinions just as strong as your own. It is not rare that you have beliefs and
intrinsic beliefs, EVERYONE has a slightly different take on the world. IF liberalism is over represented,
it might be because, conservation of old ideas is directly opposed to the establishment of new ones. Liberalism
is expansive, always trying to progress, conservatism, socially, monetarily and religiously, focuses on the common retention of old ideas, methods and concepts. Higher learning specializes in teaching new ideas because the frontier of new knowledge is perceived to be the spearhead of competition.

I had to read 3 conservative leaning books last semester and it made sense for the particular course, no bones about it.

I've heard many espouse the benefits of this bill by pointing out the tax credits businesses receive if they hire.

So, if I own a business, hire someone, I get a credit, come tax time.
But I still have to pay this persons wages.

If I can't sell enough product/service to hire on a new person BEFORE this bill, what incentive would a tax credit give me?

Smoke and mirrors and Keynesian bull-dookey.

reply to post by The Old American


Yes, it's definitely not creating new wealth. People who mine gold create new wealth. People who manufacture stuff create new wealth.

reply to post by Janky Red


Hey I got four stars for the first time. Who woulda thought it'd be on that post. I like to think that I'm conserving the ideals of our Founding Fathers, but also of timeless principles of Divine Light and Wisdom. So there!

I absolutely agree with TR.

I think it'll be interesting to see what's in it, and highly doubt we even get a read before it's passed.

On September 06, flipping through some sat feeds, I caught Pelosi and co, giving a cheer-leading session on Capitol Hill regarding this "Jobs Bill".

I wasn't able to record the whole thing, and I've been trying to find a transcript or video of the event, but have only been able to locate some photos on the web.

The following is vague, as I can't remember the exact words... so forgive me if it isn't quoted verbatim, but does provide the general idea.

The thing that really caught my attention, was when John Larsen (D) Conn. was speaking and said "We need to get our young people to work under FEMA"... and some other agency.

He also said, we could call it whatever you want, the Civil Youth Service or something to that effect... which really made me think..

I got the impression that somebody might try and take this opportunity to increase the size of government programs even more, while everyone is all giddy about their taxes being decreased next year.

It sounded like something that might have come straight out of Germany in the 30's.

Normally, I'd just think, "Oh well, we get boned again", but something is really bugging me about this... it just doesn't smell right. Then with the "You must pass this bill NOW!" rhetoric from Obama, it seemed even creepier.

I have the last 12 minutes, or so of the robots telling Obama to "Knock it out of the Park". if anyone's interested, I can upload it to youtube, but the following few seconds, I think, were my favorite part.

Originally posted by Aihttik
Are unrelated buzz words that get your shorts a little tighter but do nothing to answer what I asked. Got any numbers or are you just repeating what you hear on the radio?

Can you read my actual post?

Oh hey, welcome to ATS. When you get to the point of making an avatar, you may want to check this thread..

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