The truth about islam.

Originally posted by Hocico
It is also in immigration., stable, friendly societies get destroyed because of the Muslim presence.

This has never happened. This is the sheerest of lies.

Muslims can not, and do not want to assimilate into western society.

I guess all those muslims who have done say must not be muslim or something right?

Which makes people wonder why they emigrate.

Who cares, its a free country.

Did you know that the Muslims in England tried to get a Muslim only zone in a one mile radius around a London mosque?

Did you know that people using your reasoning used to enslave an entire population and had 'whites only' facilities in entire regions of the country?

I even read a report which said in Norway Muslims make up less then 2% of the population yet they use 44% of the welfare.

Prove it.

The society of Islam is not a peaceful one and never will be.

Thankyou for your learned opinion sheik hocico. Why is it that you think anyone is going to take your opinion on the nature of the islamic religion authoratatively?

ression of women, a difficult topic. Most Muslim women will say they are not oppressed when they are restricted from driving and are forced to wear the hijab/burqa. This is because they have never led a normal life and don't understand because they are so used to it, and it is natural for someone to stick up for their culture anyway.

What does that have to do with anything? Different classes of people are oppressed all over the world. With more people like you, it'll be all muslims who are oppressed in the west. Or what did you want to pretend your were suggesting?

e some photos, WARNING: SOME ARE GRAPHIC/NOT WORK SAFE AND YOU MAY WANT TO AVOID THEM

Muslim Parents cutting their childrens skin to make them www.microsqft.com...

Implying that other human beings are lower than animals. Nice. And you are looking down on these people? Seems you are the pig here.

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www.microsqft.com...
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These are palestinians, hardly representative of muslims as a whole. How many irish mothers sat there doing nothing while their children ran off to join the republicans? Ah, I see, its the irish that are the real problem. Those savages. Why they are practically inhuman. [/parody]

These next photos are from the annual remembrance day when Shiites mourn the death of Imam Hussein by beating themselves and cutting their own flesh to bleed.:
almost all of these photos have been from this religious event.

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Scene's of mass self-mutilation, they also hit themselves with barbed chains to make themselves bleed.
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You have never heard of flagellation? Its hardly an invention of islam. Ah well, those crazy muslims, I'm going to go watch the passion of christ to get my mind off them. [/more sarcasm]

A Hindu being beaten by Muslims in a mosque in Bangladesh. He was captured outside the mosque while going home from work. After Friday prayers were over, the Muslims came out and grabbed the first Hindu they could. Mr. Vimal Patak a Bangladeshi born Hindu was beaten to death with sticks as the Muslim mullahs (priests) chanted "kill the Kafir!" (non-Muslim). With folded hands he begged for his

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I wonder if this guys face was bloodier than the Sikhs that have been beaten and murdered in the US by people who thought that they were muslims?

Palestinian crowd waves interior body parts of a butchered human victim in Ramallah:
www.microsqft.com...

Isn't this called the 'fallacy of parts' or the fallacy of going from the specific to the general? You have shown that some palestinians are dangerous and violent. And you expect anyone to beleive that this means all muslims are dangerous and violent?

Here are some quotes fromt he koran itself
The Muslim is exhorted by their GOD to kill, mutilate, molest, rape and steal.

Uhm, it doesn't say this anywhere in the koran. This are your words, quite obviously. I point this out, even tho its blatantly obvious to any normal human being, because the terminal idiots that would beleive or agree with any of these disgusting conclusions that you are drawing probably is stupid enough to think that the koran actually says this

IX. 5-6: Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them.

So? THe bible says that everyone has to hate their own parents before they can be truly saved. God exhorts the hebrews in the bible to kill everyone of the enemy tribe. Heck, he even stops the sun in its course so that the hebrews in the bible can more effectively commit genocide. The OT, New Test. and Koran are full of violence. They were written in excessively violent times. Heck just look at revelation, or those ludicrous depraved 'left behind' series of books.


Or just look at this assinine post you have made. You start off by saying 'all muslims aren't bad because some muslims are' and then systematically set it up such that all muslims are in fact bad. You present it such that their holy books make them evil, and, even better, that their children, before they 'cut thier first tooth' hate non muslims, you make it a quality of their entire ethnicity.

Your are a fool and a liar, and your kind have allways been around, baiting people into hating other people, trying to make other people seem like they are fundamentally different, inferior. You are a pig. We'll never be ride of people like you in this country, but don't think for a moment that your type ever holds real sway around here. Everyone has seen what happens when nasty little worms like you are taken seriously, and no one wants any more of that crap.

look, almost everywhere where there are muslims, there are problems,

There are these things called history books. If you were to ever open one up, you might see why the problems in the middle east have less to do with religion and more to do with history.

wolfofwar:
They lived in a region where you survived by killing eachother, they are still very barbaric, its in their nature

Well which is it? Is it the conditions of the region that promote violence, or is it 'their' nature? You are saying the muslims are somehow unnaturally inbreed to be violent. THe islamic world is not a modern liberal democracy. Almost none of the world is that way. The middle east isn't especially violent compared to the jungles of southeast asia during wars or parts of south america or africa. Oh but europe is just so peaceful right? I mean, its been what, fifty years since a major european war right? And before that, well there was only WWII. And a few years before that WWI. And then there was teh Franco Prussian War. Oh and the spanish civil war was going on during most of that. Oh and then there was this war and that war. And after that WWII thingy that you seem to have forgotten about there was, oh what was it called, you know, that thing where the entire world could've been destroyed, oh yeah, the Cold War, with that ever so peaceful and enlightene concept of Mutually Assured Destruction. But those were justified wars right? Not like those terrible little muslim wars right?

news flash, this isn't a PC world, stop acting like it should be.

This is also not a world where people have forgotten what people intended when they said things like 'these people are inherently uncivilized'

hocico:
they used to call me "white infidel pig"

Sounds like you deserved it.

im coming from [a islamic country]

Please go back. YOu are not welcomed here.

so i should know what im talking about

You should, but apparently you don't.

their culture is primitive, just look how they treat their woman, do i really need to show you the statistics?

So because some muslims treat women tereribly unfairly, that means all muslims are savages? Incapable of incorporation into western society? If they are primitive for treating women very badly, you are primitive for being a bigoted pig.

i have lived half of my life in uzbekistan and was attacked many times by muslim extremists

Please spend the other half of your life there. YOu are too primitive for the west.

ALMOST EVERY ISLAMIC NATION IS BACKWARDS, THIS is a fact, they achieved nothing, only useful thing they got is oil

Uhm, what nation exactly isn't backwards right now? Only muslim nations? And Egypt and Indonesia aren't backwards countries.

you dont have any progress, the last time somel came out of you was 700 years ago [...] and this statement alone is bullcrap, usa and russia are number one weapons exporters.

So lets get this straight. You are claiming that muslims are pig-ignorant and backwards and incapable. Then when someone says "Look at our progress. America consumes aprox. 60% of the world's resources and only makes up 5% of the population. We produce nearly all of the worlds weapons" you are so horribly stupid that you think that they aren't talking about the US? Big hint my recent uzbecki emigre, 'America' and the 'US' are the same thing. Absolutely ironic. Ah well becki, you'll figure it out soon enough.

[edit on 24-8-2004 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

The Christian Crusades were mostly conducted by the Roman Catholics.

What is this, some variation on the 'no true scotsman' fallacy?

Roman Catholics are christians. The people supprting the religious police in saudi arabia are wahhabiists. Why is it ok for you to excuse the crusades because it was doen by catholics (because there were just sooo many other christians sects running around then right?) but when the fundamentalists are the problem in islam, its every muslims fault?

Please try to find one case where Jesus advocated the use of violence against human beings

He beat people in the holiest temple of all of judaism for christsake! He told his followers that they had to leave their families and fathers in order to be truly saved! His apostle Paul told slaves to return to their masters! And if jesus is god, and was around during the new testament, then where was his pacifiscm when god was insistin that the hebrews murder entire tribes and hamstring herds of animals?

Islam, like every other religion, has disgusting, bloody aspects to it. That obviously doesn't mean that all muslims are disgusting and violent, or even that any muslim culture is inherently violent. If pacifistic christians could adopt the old testament as part of their sacred scripture, then muslisms can certainly be peacful.

Originally posted by Nygdan
He beat people in the holiest temple of all of judaism for christsake! He told his followers that they had to leave their families and fathers in order to be truly saved! His apostle Paul told slaves to return to their masters! And if jesus is god, and was around during the new testament, then where was his pacifiscm when god was insistin that the hebrews murder entire tribes and hamstring herds of animals?

Great point about Jesus using a whip in the Temple. People can interpret these verses to think Christianity is about violence, while others say its a religion of peace. Everyone sees things differently, which is why you have so many views of the different religions.

Originally posted by Nygdan

He beat people in the holiest temple of all of judaism for chrissake! He told his followers that they had to leave their families and fathers in order to be truly saved! His apostle Paul told slaves to return to their masters! And if Jesus is god, and was around during the new testament, then where was his pacifiscm when god was insisting that the Hebrews murder entire tribes and hamstring herds of animals?

Jesus did not actually beat people.

Matthew 21:12
Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.

Mark 11:15
On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple area and began driving out those who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves,

John 2:15
So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

In reference to him using the whip, it just says he used it on the sheep and cattle. The money changers ran off easily because they knew they were in the wrong. Basically Jesus told them that the temple was for prayer, not making a buck by making people change their money to another currency before they bought their sacrifice animals, and fudging on the exchange rate. He was angry with them and turned their tables over, knocking their ill-gotten money everywhere. I don't believe he ever laid a hand on them, or that you can find proof of this idea.

Your second point is taken way out of context. Jesus said:

Matthew 10:37
"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me

There is no text that says to leave your father or mother. He simply said that their priority should be Jesus. You should do what Jesus says over what your father and mother say. I think that you are blending this idea with the following verses. Read the entire chapter and you will see that this is his response to Peter asking about rewards for their service to Jesus.

Matthew 19:27-29
27Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"
28Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother[6] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Again, we don't see a command to leave their father or mother, but a encouragement by Jesus that the people who do abandon everything will be rewarded for their sacrifice.

Your last question is actually a good one. Part of the reason was due to their pagan practices that God did not want the Jews to pick up on. The other reason, and probably why children were included in the list of who to kill, is that the Canaanites, were most likely inbred with aliens/fallen angels. Read about 9 foot tall Goliath and his 4 brothers, or the man from Gath with 6 fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot. All of these men were larger than humanly possible, and one of their kings had to have a bed thirteen feet long for him to fit into it. This is a very lengthy discussion outside the bounds of the current topic. You can find lots of interesting information on this if you Google for the information.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
One place
Christians stopped the murders in the games of ancient Roman.The Christians asked for a end to the violence and lead to the stop of the games

Sorry dude your flat wrong about that even when the "christians" took over Rome not only did they kill pagens but the games continued under many "christians" rulers. So dome research before posting statements like this. It's human nature no matter what religion you claim to be in.

[edit on 24-8-2004 by DaTruth]

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by Nygdan

He beat people in the holiest temple of all of judaism for chrissake!

[didn't anyone like my using 'christ sake' in this context???]

John 2:15
So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

john2:15
Jesus made a whip of small ropes. He used it to make them all leave the house of God along with the sheep and cattle. He pushed their money off the tables and turned the tables over

Your quote is NIV right? Most seem to have it that way. The 'New Life Version' has the one above tho. So does the 'New King James Version' and "English Standard Version ". The "21st Century King James Version ' Uses the term 'scourge' which I am not sure would be used in teh context of driving livestock (but obviously thats very much debateable)

Matthew 19:29
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother[6] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Again, we don't see a command to leave their father or mother, but a encouragement by Jesus that the people who do abandon everything will be rewarded for their sacrifice.

This is plainly a call to abandon their families and join the new religion. IF (and I am not trying to say that the analogy I am about to make is 'strong') a modern day cult leader said this I do not think people would say that it means anything other than what it plainly says.

As far as context, consider the entire context of the jesus movement. He was preaching revolutionary messianic change, charging about in the wilderness with a hard core of disciples and at times a large and unruley mob of followers. All this while the imperial powers were barely clinging on to the 'allied' state of judea. Other groups, apparently indistinguishable from the jesus movement for the romans (and other jews apparently) were considered exceedingly dangerous (like the zealots). And shortly after all this a war between the empire and messianic radical jewish groups did infact break out.

Of course, one can settle back and say 'when jesus said he would destroy the old world with fire and establish a new kingdom, he didn't mean literal destruction and meant a kingdom in heaven'. Either way one must admit that these were interesting choices of words in the first place. After all, the man was thought dangerous enough that he was crucified, along with, according to some, not thieves, but other messianic radical leaders. SOme have even gone far enough to say that after the death of their leader, the apostles toned down greatly the roman involvment in the execution and the radical temporal aspects of the movement, in order to work within the establishment, rather than be crushed under hobnail.

Your last question is actually a good one. Part of the reason was due to their pagan practices that God did not want the Jews to pick up on.

The reasons are irrelevant. They were order, empowered, and greatly aided in commiting genocide.


On the largness of goliath and other philistines, I think that the idea that they were armoured -something- (not exactly, but perhaps prototypically) like greek hoplites (having arived in the area as a result of the mediteranean wide 'bronze age systems collapse' [however strictly one wants to take that]) is a better explanation. They are described as having gigantic shields (with sheild beares nonetheless) and huge spears. I think that the judeans wouldn't have been familiar with such an array, and the idea that goliath was a giant grew out of that. As far as references to him being 9 feet tall, modern people often mistake how tall a person is relatively shortly after meeting them, so I find a several thousand year old reference to a particular person's height unconvincing.

DaTruth:
when the "christians" took over Rome not only did they kill pagens but the games continued under many "christians" rulers.

Most ironic, that the christians, still to this day complaining of persecution, once they got the reigns of power stamped their former persecuters out of existence. However, as a point of fact, the christians were the ones who ended gladiatorial combat, eventually.

Imagine that, people not allways behaving according to some stereotype. Oh well, those horrible muslims that everyone is skeeeeered of, they'll never change right? [/sarcasm]

I have to agree with the author of this thread. NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS!!! But, I must say those 1.4 billion are really screwing it up for those 11.

God Bless Israel and America

Originally posted by DaTruth

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
One place
Christians stopped the murders in the games of ancient Roman.The Christians asked for a end to the violence and lead to the stop of the games

Sorry dude your flat wrong about that even when the "christians" took over Rome not only did they kill pagens but the games continued under many "christians" rulers. So dome research before posting statements like this. It's human nature no matter what religion you claim to be in.

[edit on 24-8-2004 by DaTruth]

The games never stopped over night and I never said that. Christianization was an extremely slow process.As the time passed and Christianity spread in roman territories, the ludi began to be reduced. In the years of Constantine the Great and under his mother's Helen influence who was Christian, he announced a prohibition law in 324 AD whose result was the reduction of these contests(which means less people died). They stopped finally in 404 AD in the years of emperor Honorius; ending so a barbarian custom which for almost 7 centuries cost the life of many people and animals.

So do your own research

As a jew, i am constantly in haerthache at the bloodshed in tha land that was given to us, Israel was given to us because the jews needed somewhere safe, a land of their own, after 2 thousand years of persecution, we finally get our own land, yet the killers come into our land and kill our citizens claiming it is there, when not only the land was given to us by g-d, which is meaningless nowadays, but it was given to us by the UN.
Not all muslims are terrorists, but for evey terrorist, people will die, be it 1 or 500. Israel, such a small country, yet eveyone fights for it.

its tiny, but its ourswe got it fair and square, we have fought for it, too many times, in israels very short existance we have how many wars?
www.historyguy.com...
i hope i have made my point clear.
G-d bless America, Australia, and Israel
AM YISROEL CHAI - LONG LIVE THE NATION OF ISRAEL!

Ghostrider,

Who were the terrorists who blew up the King David Hotel?
You got it fair and square? Gaza and the West Bank fair and square?
There's nothing fair and square about the settlement process, there's nothing fair and square about the treatment of Palestinians who still hold the title documents to their land in Israel, land they were not paid for and cannot live on.

You display two flags, neither country was got "fair and square".

I m sure you would stop using the crusades as an example of the love of Christ if you did ‎not have a death grip on ignorance.‎
Being a Christian means knowing Christ.‎
The mass at the time of the crusades were preformed in a foreign tongue in most cases ‎before the gospel of Christ was available/‎
The crusaders in answer to Islamic imperialism carried the symbols of Christ but not his ‎ideology.‎

I have feeling someone is on global ignore for some misdeed or another,‎
But I find int interesting that the defenders of Islam migrate to this thread offered from ‎emotionalism when the thread of the same title from a scholarly POV is poison for ‎them.‎

Very telling