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The founding fathers fraud the biggest scam since religion

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posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien
 


George Washington never existed? Alex Jones really said that? Now I can say up to this moment, I have heard it all.




posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien
 


They didn't consider slaves as being men, they didn't consider women as being men. They considered land owning white males as being men. So when they say all men are created equal, they were referring to White Male LandOwners.

Is that right? not really. Do we interpret it the same as them. You have to ask yourself that question. I believe all men are created with equal opportunity, but they aren't equal. Some are stronger, some are smarter, some are faster, some are more creative.

I believe they may have even meant that all men start out as equal and it is up to them to determine their own destiny.

If you look at the way our government was formed and what the experience of government was for them prior to the advent of the USA, then it is easier to understand.

They were coming from a form of government that had everything to do with who you were born to rather than what you could accomplish as a man.

Our government isn't like the former British monarchy or the Indian Caste system. You aren't stuck where you are born. You are open to succeed based on your own merits.

That was the intention of the founding fathers and to suggest that they were agents of the crown in that context is the most asinine ignorant statement I think I have ever heard.

Our form of government, pre 1865, was and is the best form of government ever conceived. It puts the responsibility of your life in your own hands. You aren't stuck where you were born and you could succeed on your own merits.

Was it perfect? No, Could it be improved? Yes. It hasn't been. The methods to overcome the abuses of the hyper wealthy on the system have had the opposite effect. FDR was the WORST president as far as freedom is concerned. He only made everyone but the absolute elite slaves to the Federal government.

The emancipation proclamation didn't free slaves. It created indentured servitude for blacks to the Federal government and the democratic party.

People had better wake up. The only solution is freedom and the support of small business. Where we are today is greatly the fault of our own and that of our ancestors. We and our ancestors were and are greedy. We love those cheap prices that the Chinese give us and we love the cheap prices and convenience that the corporations give us. That isn't the American way. It only serves to create disparity between the rich and the poor.

Support small business and limited government and take responsibility for yourself and the happiness you can obtain will be only limited by your own drive and your own perseverance.

Jaden

Of course if you're a nutbag socialist or communist, you'll not understand and or ignore almost the entirety of the above, but guess what? There are enough of us that won't let you continue to corrupt our beloved nature and that are not pacifists that you won't have a choice eventually...
edit on 11-9-2011 by Masterjaden because: wrong year



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien
 


so this guy who took part in a "staged war", behaving has a pawn for the government he "hates", has the all the answers. sounds like a hypocrite to me. why fight a war for a government he doesnt believe in.

i really dont understand the increase in these kinds of posts lately. criticizing america non stop but doing NOTHING to help the situation (not to say the op is or is not doing something, but almost all of those postings like this, have done, and will do nothing to change the situation). DO SOMETHING to make the world a better place, volunteer to feed the homeless, volunteer for your local firefighters, volunteer to talk to old people abandoned by their children etc, etc, DO GOOD, get into the mix and actually see the good that people are doing in this country, meet the people who are there to catch someone when they fall, and then try to say that we are as bad as most conspiracy theories paint us as. not to mention that those in the western world whine and whine and whine about how bad their country and government isnt what they want. i would love to see them go to somolia or china, see how their governments operate, and then come home. im sure their opinons would change.

i love a good conspiracy as much as the rest of us, its why i came here, but most of them are competely false and made up, such as claiming to know the minds and opinions of the founding fathers. how the hell can anyone say for sure that they did or did not give a damn about us. if the country was truely as evil as some conspiracys say we are, there would be a civil war, assassinations all the time, martial law, etc etc, but it is not that way. WE MAKE OUR GOVERNMENT, WE CONTROL THE DIRECTION OF OUR COUNTRY, if we didnt want someone in office, and they refused to leave, they can be killed, or forcefully removed and exiled.

this idea that we are all under some secret hidden umbrella government watching over us all and trying in every way to exploit us i find very hard to belive. sure there are probably people that "pull the strings" behind the scenes but if they really wanted to control us, they would have NEVER EVER EVER allowed/granted in the constitution the opportunity to invoke our "god given" rights. free speech would not exist. this conversation would be treason.

i am not bashing all conspiracys, i just find it hard to swallow the fact that our entire government, created and staffed by citizens, is out to get us, like some kind of big brother boogyman. although i will say, it is ALOT OF FUN to think about and read conspiracy theories



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by gladtobehere
A pure "democracy" is the equivalent of mob rule: "rule of the majority". In a democracy, the majority of a town could vote to prevent women from driving. In a nation of laws under a Constitution, everyone would be equally protected, but we dont just want a nation of laws, we want just laws. Who decides if the laws are just? The Constitution. Though I would argue there are many laws on the books right now which are blatantly unconstitutional and are more reminiscent of mob rule.

Wow! So instead of a "mob rule" you prefer a perpetual rule by hypocritical bunch of self-appointed authors of a Constitution who have been dead for a couple of centuries now?



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by dasman888
I do know this... a republic (is supposed to be), 2 wolves, a lamb, and one other elected by those 3 to oversee the dynamics of state affairs, and prevent a majority from victimizing the minority.

A democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch. A democracy is unbridled Majority power. If you're odd, black, Indian, from Asia, or collect bizarre yard art, in a democracy the rest of "the people" can vote as right anything they want to do to you, and there's no recourse, because "the people have spoken."

A republic, is supposed to be based on principles and the "rule of law", vs rule of mob law.

This quote about democracy from Benjamin Franklin always cracks me up.

So how are laws made in a "Republic"? By minority? Or perhaps those with guns, whether they are majority or minority?



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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I'm sick of all this bashing of America and it's government. It's like no matter what we do we're the Cthulhu nation. What would you have us do? Change our government to a better one? Is there any one good form of government? And furthermore, what are you doing to help the situation? Maybe instead of being a keyboard warrior standing on your digital soapbox, you can do something to be a part of the solution, not the problem. I used to enjoy the heated, yet intelligent and respectful debates a thread like this can bring. But lately they've all become giant sessions of people trashing other people because "I'm right and if you don't believe like me, you're wrong and ignorant!" I'm done with threads like these until people can become rational once again.

But, in the interest of staying on topic, the founding fathers weren't perfect men. In fact, if they were, then there would be reason to question them. Were they terrorists? By today's standards, yes. But today's standards can classify anything and anyone's as terrorists and terrorist actions. I believe it has been said already, but one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. And lastly, the idea that the US is just some kind of militaristic extension of the UK...isn't actually that unbelievable. As much as it pains me, even I fall victim to questioning things that should seem could be answered with common sense. While others would think it asinine, I find it not that hard to believe. But, still, I don't believe it to be true. I just agree the notion isn't that far off as to not be possible.



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by Observor
 


Do you even understand how a republic like ours works? or rather, is supposed to work.

We have states that regardless of their population get two representatives in the senate and a number of representatives in the house of representatives based on population. (This is for a democratic republic BTW.)

That way smaller states are represented the same in the senate as the larger states, so population or mob rule isn't the deciding factor. All people get a voice and all people get an equal voice.

In our system, the Federal government was NEVER supposed to have the amount of power it has today, nowhere near, almost ALL power was supposed to be delegated to the states, with the exception of specific powers and regulations as defined by the one supreme document, the constitution. This was so the people of their respective states could decide how to run their own states but they would not be allowed to infringe on certain unalienable rights of their people, which would be enforced by the Federal government in turn for being able to implement limited taxation on the people.

This has been corrupted, we are no longer functioning under our own government of by and for the people. We are corporate slaves, as the incorporated states and cities and federal government have taken away almost all of our rights.

This was started after the civil war, because the civil war threw state sovereignty and rights out the window. Believe me, the civil war was NOT about slavery and the southern states would've eventually ended slavery on their own.

It culminated and our current future was set in stone when we allowed the government to rail road us into a constitutional amendment that allowed them to implement socialist based income taxes and socialist policies during the roosevelt's reign (both of them).

We have let it get completely out of control in the name of greed as I stated in my previous post. All of our downfall as the greatest nation on earth can be attributed to people's selfishness and greed.

Greed and want for help during the depression, greed of corporations and their employees and greed of us for our slave labor cheapened goods from foreign nations padding the pockets of the corporations.

Our freedom within our system of government requires there to be no central bank, no monopolies of ANY kind and no conglomerate corporations. We need small local businesses in order to maintain our freedom.

There can be cooperation between companies for efficiencies sake etc...but the majority of business must be sole proprietorships in local communities. Or smaller corporations; however, corporate law has completely corrupted our system of government and has forced reliance on the federal government to the point of slavery.

Some of you morons think the answer is greater federal control. You are living in a fantasy world if you think that greater federal control is the answer. All that will do is greater enslave us to their machinations.

They DO have machinations that give them more power and you are falling under those machinations.

Wake up.... Don't EVER think you don't have the power. Their money comes from you. Their sole power comes from that money. You can choose who you shop from. Don't go to walmart. Don't go to Kmart. Don't go to Vons.

Find mom and pop stores, find manufacturers that build here in America. You HAVE the power.

If their are no mom and pop stores let's get together in our communities and form them and support each other.

The closer knit we become in society, the more powerful we become as citizens. If necessary, we must use the second amendments authorities granted to us to do as our founding fathers suggested and start over. Remember, Our Police, our military, are all members of our society. Do not for one second think that they are automatically against us in the event we are forced to take our freedoms back.

In the words, of William Wallace, "They may take our lives, but they can never take, OUR FREEDOM".... Yes I understand that is a dramatization in a movie.

That doesn't change what our forefathers have done and sacrificed for us to have the ability to freely write what we are right now in the forum. Some of you espouse ideas that would lead to this right being taken away, I pray every day that you will wake up to the control of your thoughts being exerted on you. That is exactly what it is too. You are being manipulated into believing that it is better to go along with the flow, to not make waves, to feel wrong or guilty for making people be responsible for their own actions and for being responsible for your own.

I was once as a teenager enamored with the words of one Bill Clinton when I saw him on MTV.

That was short lived once I found out and researched what he stood for.

Then I was enamored with George Bush, until I saw what he passed in the patriot



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by Masterjaden
 


act. I then really started to study and analyze what it was about our country that made us great and it wasn't our success in the global market place. It wasn't having the most powerful military in the world.

It was what our founding fathers genius created. Unfortunately, our complacency and greed has corrupted what our founding fathers thought so hard and fought so hard to build, and it is our responsibility to work and think just as hard to get back what that complacency and greed has lost.

Jaden



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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Once again, the U.S. constitution was written based on the same philosophies as the Declaration of Independence, written by Jonathan Locke, there was no scam.

From the beginning the biggest conflicts were over slavery. Large numbers of the slavers were loyalists to the king of England.

The U.S. government is still the best form of government that exist, and has done very very well since its inception.

Anyone but a fool trusts in corporate powers over the U.S. government. All these threads attacking the U.S. gov are nothing but propaganda by people who would fancy themselves to be the new aristocrats.



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Unfortunately, much of our government is being currently controlled by those corporate powers. With mass media it is so easy to manipulate the majority of the population, and to be frank, the majority of the population are a bunch of idiots. We need citizenship tests. For their time, the founding fathers weren't far off in requiring citizens to be white male land owners. They had the most education, the most stake and were the ones bright enough and involved enough to not be easily manipulated.

Everyone wants a voice, but unfortunately, everyone isn't smart enough or aware enough to have a voice. So many people who vote in this country don't even know how the country operates or is supposed to operate. They are manipulated sheep and slaves to the corporate government and either side doesn't matter.

Hell, most of our elected officials are just as oblivious and stupid.

When a Representative thinks that an island may capsize if too many people are on one side of it, he is incompetent to serve in that position, I am sorry, but that is the truth.

It isn't racial discrimination or sex discrimination to require people to be smart enough and aware enough to be a citizen and to enjoy the rights of a citizen. It is just being smart, and not wanting our government to be too easily manipulated.

If people want to have that right, they will do what is necessary to achieve the awareness to have that right.

Our striving for fairness to all regardless of knowledge or ability is ridiculous, give equal opportunity and equal requirements for all and it won't matter.

Jaden



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by Masterjaden
 


Jaden, I really like how you think. I would like to commend you on your excellent analysis of our past and present condition and how our govt was intended to work. I have always associated with the Republican side of things precisely because I saw it as the party of less govt, but Republicans have lately been almost as Statist as Democrats, and I believe that it has just taken longer for the Socialists to reach into the Right wing.
Someone here asked me this question recently, he said "Glenn Beck is that you?" and I'm quite sure he meant it as a slur, but I take it as a compliment, because Glenn always talks about our Founding Fathers with great respect, and he is sounding the alarm on the encroachment. It is so sad that so many people cannot see that, and criticize him for his emotional style and his religious outlook and call him shill and so on. Statists hate him exactly because of those qualities he shows.
I agree with you that the encroachment on our liberties has been steady and increasing, even with Republicans in charge intermittently. The truth is that people who desire power have worked their way into the system and have subverted it for their own ideologies. On the Left we definitely have Socialists, we have around 70 members of the Democratic Socialists of America, and that easily accounts for why our govt is increasingly looking more like a straight democracy, and these Statists are always throwing around the word democracy because they want to strip the Republic out of our govt. These are the Maxine Waters types who have said openly they want a Socialist control over Big Oil and other corporations and industries, and look what they have accomplished just since POTUS got in in 08. They have passed their Socialised Medicine, and I have to say I cried when that passed. (And then I logged on to Twitter).
I too, still believed in Republicans when Bush Jr. took office and was in such dismay when the PATRIOT ACT passed and Bush took us to war.
This is why I joined the Tea Party, because I saw that other people were as concerned as I was about all the socialism, Marxism, and excessive taxation, and encroachment of liberties, and that goes for both sides of the political spectrum.
I cannot throw in with the Libertarian Party because there is a Left element there I just cannot abide. Part of the Left element in this country involves the so-called Green Agenda. It may have genuinely evolved out of a genuine desire to keep the planet clean and pure, but the ideology itself becomes radical when they attack our way of life and expect us all to somehow go back to a primitive way of life without amenities. I don't know if they have really thought it out, but when I hear people talking about humans as parasites, I become concerned. We see the effect this ideology has had on our economy, and how right now the coal industry is being attacked, and our ability as a nation to produce oil and be more self-sustaining. Why is it ok for us to depend of foreign oil? I believe their approach is one of scarcity, which they hope will produce more efforts to find so called "greener" solutions, but it has and will backfire when we are in a near-depression economic crisis of their own making.
It should be evident that with people like John Holdren being allowed positions of power in our govt, that we are in really deep trouble. This man has written books about how to de-populate the world. That means that people mean nothing to him. How can anyone justify the position that this group of people care about the people who support them when it's so obvious that the goal is to elimnate the very people who gave them power.
I woke up today thinking about the power structure and how people who are so willing to abuse power are the very ones who gravitate to those positions and the ones who don't aspire to that are left to suffer under the diabolical decisions the power-mongers make.
ok thanks for your valuable input and thanks for listening.



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b

Once again, the U.S. constitution was written based on the same philosophies as the Declaration of Independence, written by Jonathan Locke, there was no scam.

From the beginning the biggest conflicts were over slavery. Large numbers of the slavers were loyalists to the king of England.

The U.S. government is still the best form of government that exist, and has done very very well since its inception.

Anyone but a fool trusts in corporate powers over the U.S. government. All these threads attacking the U.S. gov are nothing but propaganda by people who would fancy themselves to be the new aristocrats.


I would almost agree with you, but somehow you seem to be for more govt not less. To me that is the difference. yes I agree our form of governing is the best there has been to offer to date, but socialists have invaded with concepts of democracy over Republicanism and yet they take advantage of the very structure that put them into the positions of power to change our very form of govt. They have said it openly. POTUS said it openly, he wants massive change and that means Marxism, and it will no longer reflect the original concept.
Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto and his ideas were based on Hegelianism. People in power today not just in govt but in banking and in the Unions and so on are steeped in Hegelianism and Marxism. This philosophy of Marx trumps the State over individual liberties, which goes against the very grain of our Founding Fathers' intentions for America.
I can guarantee that those in power with current POTUS want to eliminate the Constitution, but if they can't find a way to do it, meantime they are just subverting it.
edit on 11-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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It is not truth that matters, but victory. Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong and the victor will never be asked if he told the truth.

The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category.

Adolf Hitler 1943

P.S. I am calling bull# that nothing blew up today. Not that I wanted anything to blow up.

Correct me if I am wrong. The Taliban and related sell herion to the Mexican Cartels. The borders are not secured and thousands just walk in to the US every year. What exactly keeps the terrorists out of our country? If anyone can get them in undetected it is the Cartels. All that stands in a terrorists way is cati and rattlesnakes!

Have we not killed a million+ Iraqis and Afghanis? If someone blew up my babies my whole life would be dedicated to one purpose!
edit on 11-9-2011 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by Masterjaden
 





In the words, of William Wallace, "They may take our lives, but they can never take, OUR FREEDOM".... Yes I understand that is a dramatization in a movie.


You just hit the jackpot with me on this quote. I love that movie. I have Scottish ancestry and I cry every time I see that movie. The sound of bagpipes stirs up an ancient desire for freedom. I think it is one of Gibsons best roles ever, to be upstaged only by his role as "The Patriot".



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by kallisti36
 


They were Christians. I posted on that last night, but a good portion were ALSO Freemasons in addition to their official Christian denominations. Freemasonry does not impose itself to force you to give up a religion. Instead, it adds esoteric ideas to basic religion. This is why the Roman Catholic Church had so much trouble with them, because they challenged the Status quo.



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by The X
we can see how "Democracy" has been foisted on, iraq, afghanistan, and now libya, we can see how the powers of the western world when they want a country under it's wings, go in with troops and propaganda.
This is done to make the rest of the world believe in the democratic process that needs to be installed in these "lawless dictatorships" that constantly abrogate the rights of it's citizens.

I can see now how the founding fathers of the USA could have been useful dupes or worse providing the reason for the UK to be there, to provide the illusion that the US was free from the tyranny of the king and that it was free.
When in fact all that has happened is the illusion of freedom has been so greatly accepted and believed only now 200years later, are the facts of your royal ownership becoming widely known.



A perfect example of setting up "democracies" in foreign countries can also be found in people not directly using "war" as a method. Socialism is an excellent way to set up democracies in countries which have "pro_western" leaders who are called dictators by said Socialists, and then a revolution ensues. Case in point, Tunisia, Egypt, Algeria, Libya. The people in those regions have grown tired of those who kept their power through stability even though they also used grubby cronyism in their power structure. These leaders used American money to keep themselves in power, making promises to the people. Tunisia is one place which espouses "democracy" more than the others, and they have a strong bent toward telecommunications, but they are still a very agrarian community relying on the export of dates. But their leader was in power a long enough time that promises mean nothing to them anymore. It is easy to stir up revolutions in people looking for more jobs.
What is going to replace the old pro-Western leaderships? Will it be Socialist democracies with a big emphasis on Unions? Or will it be Sharia Law?



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by dasman888
 


I starred you because I thought the words you chose and how you assembled them were, in my opinion very important. The link provided by OP does appear to be some fact mixed with opinion.

....beginning of rant....

This isn't directed at you or any one person particularly, but It's too bad that people with similar thoughts are grouped together and labelled as ignorant and Anti-American simply because we see things differently. It's also a shame that we can't make mention of certain opinions without getting attacked. I don't understand this obvious notion of "only some opinions count".

This comment is what I see quite often "If you don't like it then why don't you just leave...get out of America if it's so bad"! SMH....
all that because I disagree with some of you?

On one hand I am happy to see like minded individuals who are intelligent enough to at least discuss certain issues in a civil manner. On the other hand, it makes me sad that those whom disagree do so by shutting any ideas out and then start the name calling without first at least having an open discussion.

How will we ever TRULY grow our nation TOGETHER if we can't have civil discussions about our nation?

....end of rant...

edit on 9/11/11 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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This is just absurd.

War of 1812.



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien
 


Sorry OP, but I have to go against you on that post especially when the info you posted came from Wikipedia and You Tube.

How many Africans have you talked to about "slavery"? Note, I said Africans...not African Americans. Besides, you should really think about who dictated the history you studied. Maybe try traveling to places like Egypt and Timbuktu or what's left of the library in Alexandria if you already haven't. I can assure you the history you will find in those locations is extremely different than what we were taught here. Those are just a few of the places where you can start. Yes, I have been to all 3 places and am speaking from experience. Not to mention half of my blood is just 4 generations away from slavery. So, I kind of had a head start on what happened in Africa vs. arriving in America as a slave, as I was raised by my grandmother who was born in 1907 and was the wife of a man who's father was a slave. I was taught generations of African History by people who lived it, not those that wrote it.

But that's all for another thread at a later date. Please don't take my post/reply as an insult, that's not my intention.
edit on 9/11/11 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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The OP is only saying exactly what this man is also saying
See if he doesn't have a point before you disagree. www.plutocracyusa.com...



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