The founding fathers fraud the biggest scam since religion

Originally posted by newcovenant

Is that what you call justice?

There's no such thing as justice.

Men make it up, to suit their purposes.

Originally posted by DRAZIW

Originally posted by newcovenant

Is that what you call justice?

There's no such thing as justice.

Men make it up, to suit their purposes.

On this I can definitely agree with you.

reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien


Yes there was something wrong with Jefferson owning slaves and there was a contradiction with the words he authored.

Jefferson was fully aware of this contradiction and struggled greatly with it.

However, it has to be remembered that it was a different time and our countries economy was partially structured around slavery.

That in no way makes it right but it was an extremely complicated issue.

Most of the founding fathers wanted powers at the state level, while a few of them wanted a central bank etc. The smart ones knew that centralized power would back to a system like England had and that is why they created the constitution and bill of rights in the first place. The end result of their creation, had it been still obided by today and not blatantly trampled on (lol executive order, I have authority from the lol UN) would give us a much better country than we currently have. We have every reason to cherish what our founders fought for, England was a true tyrannical state, hanging you for basically everything, and majority ruled, and if the majority was convinced that you should hang, by all means you were hung. So before you go trashing our founders, relearn your history. I know my public school was actually good, and taught us about freedom and what the founders were standing up against, and I am so glad I was not brainwashed as some people here clearly were. Carry on. Just know that you would probably be sucking the toes of some dictator had we not had a revolutionary war, led by BRAVE HEROES.

reply to post by SM2


To be completely honest a constitutional or representative republic are both forms of liberal democracy.

Technically people are not wrong when they say we are a democracy. We just aren't a direct democracy.

I did some looking around to see if I could find any verifiable and credible sources to help enhance the subject matter,and possibly bring into scope,if at all,upon questioning whether or not our Founding Fathers could have been engaged in a conspiracy or self-motivated interest in bringing together our Constitution for self gain.

A gentlemen by the name of J. Allen Smith wrote a book in 1907 titled,"The Spirit of American Government":A study of the Constitution.I couldn't find much history on him other than he was an author and wrote a few books during his career as a professor of political science at the University of Washington.

This book can be read as an ebook online.If you want to check it out it can be read here.(See Source below)
Source

Upon my quest to find this book I came across a site that not only discussed conspiracy of the Constitution, but also gave reference to other authors who supported it(The Constitution),and gave their opinions as to why,and others who gave their speculative opinions to support the conspiracy.There are different ideas as to why this conspiracy may have came about and been supported by details of our founding Father's economical,political and social status in recorded history.

Anyways I am going to post some ex-text that can better summarize the book that Mr. Smith wrote than I can,merely because I have just started the book and am on page 47.The text is a summary given of the book by a gentlemen named Dr. Curtis E. Grassmen.If you are wondering who he is then a brief history can be found at the top of the page,of the page I am pulling the ex-text from.For the full article please use the link provided below.
Source

The opening attack against the founding fathers was launched in 1907 by J. Allen Smith in The Spirit of American Government: A Study of the Constitution. Smith claimed that it was not a forum of disinterested statesmen but "the property-owning class who framed and secured the adoption of the Constitution." This elite, made up of southern planters and northern merchants, he argued, had become greatly alarmed during the 1780's by the state legislatures passing laws in the interest of debtors instead of creditors. The country was largely in a state of depression after the Revolution, and in numerous instances the lower houses in state legislatures (elected annually by the people and responsible for initiating fiscal bills) had taken steps to relieve the distress of the common people. For example, stay laws were passed to prevent creditors from seizing the homes of those defaulting on their mortgages, and often paper money had been issued at an inflated value. Governors and elite groups in the states often found themselves confronted with legislative mandates and laws from which there was no recourse. Under the Articles of Confederation, the central government was so weak that it had virtually no control over the nation's fiscal affairs or the powerful assemblies representing the people in the states. Smith, studying the backgrounds of the 55 delegates at Philadelphia, believed they constituted an economic elite. The new Constitution erected at Philadelphia greatly enhanced the fiscal powers of the national government, and so he concluded the founding fathers were acting out of natural, economic self-interest.

Maybe this an the other author's can help to uncover the truth of what really happened to America.
Hope you enjoy the book.

Originally posted by Daedal
I did some looking around to see if I could find any verifiable and credible sources to help enhance the subject matter,and possibly bring into scope,if at all,upon questioning whether or not our Founding Fathers could have been engaged in a conspiracy or self-motivated interest in bringing together our Constitution for self gain.

A gentlemen by the name of J. Allen Smith wrote a book in 1907 titled,"The Spirit of American Government":A study of the Constitution.I couldn't find much history on him other than he was an author and wrote a few books during his career as a professor of political science at the University of Washington.

This book can be read as an ebook online.If you want to check it out it can be read here.(See Source below)
Source

Upon my quest to find this book I came across a site that not only discussed conspiracy of the Constitution, but also gave reference to other authors who supported it(The Constitution),and gave their opinions as to why,and others who gave their speculative opinions to support the conspiracy.There are different ideas as to why this conspiracy may have came about and been supported by details of our founding Father's economical,political and social status in recorded history.

When I was first in college many years ago, our history professor taught us that all the signers of the Declaration were wealthy land owners and the not so wealthy were against it. Our text book was written half in German, interesting because most of our college did not speak German.

But that was the prevailing theme in Academia in 1985.Now if I could just remember the name of the book.

There is no doubt that the founding fathers were members of secret clubs.You should also know that writing the constitution they had no idea that it was a mistake on their part.I believe that the secret clubs would have full control of the world by now.Its kinda like the internet some say it is decaying the users but i say its the greatest tool against the control machine.The truth is surfacing all over the world.

reply to post by Daedal


So what! The Framers of the Constitution knew that their heads could be hanging from a scaffold, in which case all their money would not have mattered. Did you think they expected immediate wealth to spring from the Revolution? They knew what they were up against, unlike people here who think that govt is the source of all the milk of human kindness.

Originally posted by deadeyedick
There is no doubt that the founding fathers were members of secret clubs.You should also know that writing the constitution they had no idea that it was a mistake on their part.I believe that the secret clubs would have full control of the world by now.Its kinda like the internet some say it is decaying the users but i say its the greatest tool against the control machine.The truth is surfacing all over the world.

Spanky and Alfalfa were members of the HeMan Woman Haters Club and the high sign was their secret greeting.

reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien


That guy is completely off his rocker. FDR saved capitalism???? that's the most insane thing I've ever heard. His progressive programs haven't been eliminated.. they are the CAUSE of all this mess we have now.

The Founding Fathers were nothing like this guy claims. If we had stuck to the Constitution like they wanted us to, we'd be in a lot better shape and we wouldn't have a welfare state.

reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien


This asshat spouts some trash and you just buy into it accepting it as history?
I can't even comment

reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien


How sad that somebody could become so hopeless and helpless that their natural inclination towards creating solutions has been replaced by apathy and looking to the past for villains at whom they may point a finger and suggest "it's not my fault I'm such a loser. It's those dead rich white guys who rigged the game before I was born. If everybody else only knew what I know, they would be miserable just like me."

You may not realize it OPie but that's just what generations of blue bloods want you to believe. They want you to think there is no use so you will give up and get on the dole. That way they don't have to compete and you depend on them.

It's your choice to be a sucker content with crumbs or to climb out from under the table like Lazurus fighting with dogs for table scraps.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Daedal

 

So what! The Framers of the Constitution knew that their heads could be hanging from a scaffold, in which case all their money would not have mattered. Did you think they expected immediate wealth to spring from the Revolution? They knew what they were up against, unlike people here who think that govt is the source of all the milk of human kindness.

edit on 11-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

I'm not here to argue with you man,nor to debate you.Just to help give a perspective to the possible note that maybe their were other factors that attributed to reasons behind drafting the Constitution.That's it..

I can say I am right,you can say you're right,but when it really comes down to it it's all opinion.

Thanks for reading my reply

Founding fathers didn't enact the constitution, they "ordained" the constitution. They were High Priests !

I watched a documentary some time ago, I cannot remember the name of it, but it touched a similar subject to this.

Some document was found in the depths of the bank of England, parliament, or some other big establishment (I honestly can't remember) which showed that England did indeed still own America. What happened was something along the lines of, we are too busy fighting the Spanish(?), you can run the country, but only on the condition you pay tax/rent to the crown. There was something about The Virginia company as well.

I really wish I could remember the name of the documentary!

Here is a little info on some of it anyway............

The Queen has massive investments in America and many of these relate to the founding of the Virginia Company under James I and Sir Francis Bacon which carved up those lands from the very start. The British Crown still owns America (possibly on behalf of the Vatican) and, with the London-based Brotherhood, the Queen enjoys an amazing income from the raw materials and other profits generated by the United States (the Virginia Company).

Source


As for George Washington, he was real, his Grandmother is buried 8 miles from me here in England, I have been to her grave.

reply to post by boncho


I truly surprise at how often Abe Lincoln is mentioned in discussions of the founding fathers. We are as far from Lincoln in history right now as he was from the founding fathers.

reply to post by smarterthanyou


Bravo! Finally, a voice of reason and sanity in this thread.

You have a good grasp of history, from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution and beyond, evident from your short response.

reply to post by Daedal

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Daedal


So what! The Framers of the Constitution knew that their heads could be hanging from a scaffold, in which case all their money would not have mattered. Did you think they expected immediate wealth to spring from the Revolution? They knew what they were up against, unlike people here who think that govt is the source of all the milk of human kindness.
edit on 11-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)
edit on 11-9-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)


I'm not here to argue with you man,nor to debate you.Just to help give a perspective to the possible note that maybe their were other factors that attributed to reasons behind drafting the Constitution.That's it..

I can say I am right,you can say you're right,but when it really comes down to it it's all opinion.

Thanks for reading my reply

It's not all opinion. In a nutshell, colonies were operating under the Articles of Confederation, which were soon to reveal some glaring deficiences. States Rights Gone Wild, if you will. States printing their own currencies, forming their own armies, making their own foreign policies, etc. etc. They were scrapped in favor of the Constitution which had we stuck with, would have given us a strong nation with sane states rights. Instead we got people like FDR.

Originally posted by zarp3333
reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien

 

How sad that somebody could become so hopeless and helpless that their natural inclination towards creating solutions has been replaced by apathy and looking to the past for villains at whom they may point a finger and suggest "it's not my fault I'm such a loser. It's those dead rich white guys who rigged the game before I was born. If everybody else only knew what I know, they would be miserable just like me."

You may not realize it OPie but that's just what generations of blue bloods want you to believe. They want you to think there is no use so you will give up and get on the dole. That way they don't have to compete and you depend on them.

It's your choice to be a sucker content with crumbs or to climb out from under the table like Lazurus fighting with dogs for table scraps.

Yeah right and then on the other hand you will say he is a sheeple for falling for a deception that has been in front of his face and under his nose and hiding right here in PLAIN SIGHT for all this time. Maybe you will criticize him for falling hook line and sinker for a government that has always been out to sheer the people from their tax dollars. You will say later on he is a coward for not joining in a revolt against it...Are conspiracies only right when you happen to agree with them?


Who's the sucker here?

Time will tell.