Originally by GradyPhilpott
What's with the second-person personal pronoun, Ivan. You said you lived in America. Are you another individual who's trying to pass himself off as American citizen?

Save your pessimism for your marxist minions or someone as gullible as you.

Marxist minions? lol I suppose you keep a rifle handy just incase the 'commies' parachute out of the sky and land in your back garden pmsl.

Originally by GradyPhilpott
You're so incredibly ill informed, I can't believe you can type.

I know that what's i keep wondering, how do i type whenever i use the keyboard? I'm not misinformed i'm just not that paranoid to believe communism is going to take over the whole world lol

I suppose you could provide evidence for a communism takeover?

Besides as history has proven communism isn't an effective form of government, take a look at the former Soviet Union and North Korea.


[edit on 27/8/04 by Flyboy211]

Grady.. I'm taking this distorted lie we in America call communism and I'm applying those standards to how our government and businesses run in America and came up with a system called Corporate Communism. A system where corporations own and control all. A system where the laws are developed to serve the coporations that pay for and control the government. Its an anti-competitive system. A system void of choices. A system that like what you think is communism will collapse under the weight of itself. Too many people have been told what to think and all you know about communism is what you were told by the government to think. Never confuse communism with a police state. By the same token. Never confuse our system with capitalism because that isn't what we are. We are also not a democracy. We are a republic. Kind of ironic isn't it? Look at our pledge.. "to the republic for which it stands" then you have the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the Peoples Republic of China and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Notice a trend there? Whether you use a pen to suppress the people or a gun its all the same. We are not the same country we were 50 years ago. We have become everything we hated everyone else for.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The real threat to America is not from without, but from within. It is not from explosives, but from an erosion of our values and our institutions. The changes I have seen in my short (yes, short) 55 years is astonishing. I know that some deny these changes, while some revel in them.

It is manifested in such things as abortion, the killing of our future. It is manifested in gay marriage and divorce, the erosion of the institution of procreation and the socialization of children. It is manifested in the belief that Free Speech is synonymous with criticizing your country and rampant obscenty and indecency. It is manifested in the belief that society owes the individual more than the indidvidual owes the sociey.

It is marxist ideology which has fueled the movements which have caused these sentiments to take hold in our nation.

Dear Grady,

I envy you because you sorted it all out, and your world is so damn one-dimensional. It must be so easy to live in a world like this -- homophobic and anti-communist.

(Just for the record I'm a flaming heterosexual

And don't like communism too much coz some of my relatives ended up in concentration camps under Stalin )

You decided to erase it from your dataflow that the recent years have been abundant with corporate abuse. Grady, I lost $40k in a corporate abuse case that predates Enron. Just google "Waste Management Inc". This was my hard earned money, my nest egg. Do you think I'm cool with that? Hell no. It is not marxists but the freaking capitalist GREED that is driving this society into the ground, with a little help of simplifying types not so unsimilar to you Grady.

If you really care, please go and fix gangsta rappers (who promote and glorify violence and dealing drugs), and the likes of the Enron management (friends of the Bush clique and a large campaign contributor), Martha Stewart (small fish really) and Oliver North who dealt with Iranians.

By the way, there is no single marxist on this list somehow (and my list comes solely form the people who made the news).

It's easy to be lazy. Please give you brain a workout and see who are the real enemies of the Free and Great America -- the corporate scum that swindles people of their money by manipulating the stock price, the decadent artists like 50 cent, and fradulent politicians who start wars for personal political gain.

And, who knows, maybe one day you'll find that the marxists are your best friends After all many of them care about the sanctity of marriage, morals and social justice.

So give me a call, and we'll sort out the action items



PS.

It is manifested in the belief that society owes the individual more than the indidvidual owes the society.

Grady, am I drunk, or you just quoted Brezhnev? Seriously.
Welcome to the club, my communist bro



[edit on 27-8-2004 by Aelita]

[edit on 27-8-2004 by Aelita]

[edit on 27-8-2004 by Aelita]

Originally posted by Megaquad
But anyway, as time passes, there are more and more indications that US will be implementing socialist policies. It's part of Elite's philosophy that there are desirable limits to economic growth, and that is usually accomplished by redistributing wealth with high taxes and brainwashing kids in classrooms.

I don't see ANY evidence of that. There was just recently the anti-socialist tax cut. Brainwashing kids in classrooms is happening on a grand scale, but not in the direction of socialism. I saw a documentary during the bombing campaign against Serbia -- it's quite incredible how the kids were brainwashed. And I thinkg they mainly care about Nintendo and WWF anyway.

And no, nobody told them that Bin Laden had a Bosnian passport.

Good to see people making sense here.

Someone said that the EU is more 'communist' than America, how is this so?

Wouldn't part of the reason why some EU countries have socialist welfare programmes becuase they used to be in the Warsaw Pact? Not to mention the various Eastern European countries that have just joined the EU that were under the influence of the former Communist Soviet Union.

I'm no expert but isn't that a reasonable conclusion?

Thanks for the link i'll check it out!



[edit on 27/8/04 by Flyboy211]

Originally posted by Flyboy211
Wouldn't part of the reason why some EU countries have socialist welfare programmes becuase they used to be in the Warsaw Pact? Not to mention the various Eastern European countries that have just joined the EU that were under the influence of the former Communist Soviet Union.

No. It doesn't have to do with the Soviet Union.

Scandinavian countries, for one, have always had a high level of social protection. Healthcare coverage is free in most places.

I don't have a problem with their "market controls". Looks like they have very balanced and happy societies.

America and the EU are both capitalist and 'free' , some European countries may seem more socialist but that's there way of working. It's different to what the US does, but you have to accept that.

Interesting....that your leader could be sitting in the enemy's jail, and yet somehow this would be conceived of as "winning"....

Originally posted by Gazrok
Interesting....that your leader could be sitting in the enemy's jail, and yet somehow this would be conceived of as "winning"....

"Former Leader" != "country"

George Bush:
- Deserter from National Guard
Please prove. Yes his records are out but i see nothing of desertion
- - - Enlistment in the National Guard was at that time a well known method of avoiding service in Vietnam. You can not deny this fact.
- Against Constitutional Freedoms (patriot act is 1 example)
Well i agree with you here.
- - - Ditto
- Appointed John Ashcroft to the Justice Department (who thinks its a good thing when 1 in 75 US citizens are in jail - from his own words)
How is this anti-American. People break the law they are punished. Yes maybe some people are in there unfairly but again how is this un-American.
- - - Agree. Ashcroft is no better on worse than Reno. He is a bit of a waco, but that is not a crime.
- Has his campaign workers run negative ads against John Kerry (the false ads by the Swift Boat for Truth)
A slight connection that has yet to be disproven. Maybe not generally accepted by many liberal but still not confirmed as a lie.
- - - I am wiling to bet that there was a connection in there somewhere. Count on it.
- Uses political pressure or threats to force Bob Dole and John McCain to back down from their beliefs and lie about John Kerry
Can you please provide a source. And also im sure kerry has done soem underhanded things in his Political carreer.

John Kerry:
- Fought honorable in Vietnam, earning several Purple Hearts
Maybe because of self inflicted wounds or erronious reports
- - - As you wrote above, Prove it. Where is the documentation backing this up? 2nd and third hand reports are hearsay.
- Peacfully protested a war viewed as unjust by millions of Americans
And bashed many soldiers of the war by callin them baby killers. Thew medels over the white house fence but werent even his.
- - - Read the text of his testimony to congress it is in a thread around here somewhere.
- For Consitutional Freedoms (against the patriot act)
Umm actually he voted for it check it out
- - - Whatever, everyone voted for it. (well almost everyone).

The one other thing in Kerry’s favor to my mind is that he is not a Born Again Christian. GWB is too much into the religious zealotry for me.



[edit on 27-8-2004 by HowardRoark]

Originally posted by Aelita
I don't have a problem with their "market controls". Looks like they have very balanced and happy societies.

Yes, real nice and happy communist utopia.
We'll see in decade or two how they are left in dust, getting more and more poor.
Such government interference in market is no way to bring jobs and growth, or advance culture.

[edit on 27-8-2004 by Megaquad]

Originally posted by Megaquad

Originally posted by Aelita
I don't have a problem with their "market controls". Looks like they have very balanced and happy societies.

Yes, real nice and happy communist utopia.
We'll see in decade or two how they are left in dust, getting more and more poor.
Such government interference in market is no way to bring jobs and growth, or advance culture.

[edit on 27-8-2004 by Megaquad]

That's actually a very obtuse angle you are taking.
The US government has interfered in the market, and continues to, to a lesser degree, today. Protectionism is a very American value if you look at our economic history, and just like corporate wellfare, it has had huge effects on the market. Our intelligence community gives every bit of edge to our corporations they can, adding another aspect to how government interferes with the market.

There is no such thing as a free market on this planet. Those who have bought into the idea - or appear to have - are either deluding themselves or trying to delude others.

U.

Originally posted by Megaquad

Now you see what would happen without capitalism, US wouldn't be able to protect allies in WW2 or Cold War.
At the time of WW2, USA generated 1/3 of WORLD resources and it had only 7% of world population.
If Europe was conquered, USA would probably be destroyed too.

Ooh BTW.. chances are you wouldn't use this computer because without free market computing technology would never get advanced this far.

[edit on 27-8-2004 by Megaquad]

Such what-ifs are tempting, and often compelling. I do not contest that your conjecturing is plausible, however we must remember that any difference in the time continuum will effect reality on every level to a certain degree, and in a very unpredictable way. That is to say, not only might you be wrong in concluding that without the US capitalist economy of the first half of the 20th century Europe would have been lost to Nazi Germany - but the world might actually be a better place today. Its simply impossible for us to know one way or another: it is an equation with an infinite amount of variables.

U.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Interesting....that your leader could be sitting in the enemy's jail, and yet somehow this would be conceived of as "winning"....

We are not fighting Saddam's regime anymore, I am sure you ahve noticed. This is a second stage to the conflict, and one for which victory does not have anything to do with Saddam Hussein anymore.

Personally, this second stage of the conflict makes the notions of victory and defeat somehow superfluous. I perceive it as a lose lose situation for the American people.

U.

Originally posted by Megaquad

You see, if there wasn't for US capitalist economy, there would be NO EUROPE as we know it now, or their welfare, or free operations. They would be CONQUERED by Nazi's or Soviet Russia, remember??

Freedom has a price, and thanks to huge output generated by its economy US can defend it.

Now you see what would happen without capitalism, US wouldn't be able to protect allies in WW2 or Cold War.
At the time of WW2, USA generated 1/3 of WORLD resources and it had only 7% of world population.
If Europe was conquered, USA would probably be destroyed too.

Ooh BTW.. chances are you wouldn't use this computer because without free market computing technology would never get advanced this far.

[edit on 27-8-2004 by Megaquad]

let's think about this. you're saying if the US wasn't hard-line capitalist we wouldn't have had the military power to combat the huge military power presented by a hard-line communist country like the USSR? do you see a problem with the statement?

capitalism doesn't equal military power per se. a healthy economy however is a big factor. and war of course is good for the economy. particularly WW2. so, while no-one is criticizing the US for defending freedom during WW2 and the cold war, it's wrong to imply that the US could only have chosen either a.) to defend europe or b.) to offer a decent healthcare plan & affordable higher education to its citizens. it's a false choice.

-koji K.

[edit on 28-8-2004 by koji_K]

[edit on 28-8-2004 by koji_K]