Should the school call the police when two 15 y/o's get into a fight in the hall?

reply to post by trollz

I understand it may be a little different because these are kids, but no record is wishful thinking. I was merely arrested for something 20 years ago. Not formally charged, let alone convicted. I was simply arrested and spent 6 hours in the local jail. That came up on a record check for a traffic stop a few years ago by a deputy Sheriff in a state many states away from the one that youthful indiscretion occurred in. Kids have a bit more protection for not 'having a record' but then again....I'll bet that really hasn't been true for quite some time if a cop has access to the right type of records check.

Any way you look at it, involvement in the system leaves records of some kind, and it's for nothing but a couple kids 'settling matters' as it was called when I was in school. How disgraceful.

Originally posted by trollz

I'm trying to make the point that the police intervention would prove to them that it's unacceptable. They may not care about a teacher reprimanding them with detention or suspension, but they'll care when they realize they could be sent away for the things they're doing.

You are predicating this whole thing with the idea that a kid punching a kid is some grave sin... it's a normal part of development... always has been...

And to be honest, I could care less if the police tazed or beat some high school kids.

Hilariously hypocritical.

While I don't agree with this, where have you been for the past 10 years? Ever since "Columbine" the schools have taken this "zero-tolerance" approach.

Originally posted by underspace

Originally posted by trollz

I'm trying to make the point that the police intervention would prove to them that it's unacceptable. They may not care about a teacher reprimanding them with detention or suspension, but they'll care when they realize they could be sent away for the things they're doing.

You are predicating this whole thing with the idea that a kid punching a kid is some grave sin... it's a normal part of development... always has been...

And to be honest, I could care less if the police tazed or beat some high school kids.

Hilariously hypocritical.

I'm not being hypocritical at all.
And the reason I have such a stance on this issue is because of my own personal experiences while in high school. Where I went, it wasn't as simple as "being a kid" and defending yourself. I was singled out and harassed and bullied for 3 years and it was allowed to continue. Now, if I was allowed to defend myself or do the same, fine, but I wasn't. There were several instances where I was punished for non-issues, while other kids were literally ALLOWED to carry out their bullying and harassment. I was even allowed (as a minor) to WALK OUT OF THE SCHOOL during school hours and just leave, because the faculty simply did not care about the student welfare. They cared about money and images. The moment I would have reacted physically in any way, I would have been hauled away. So why should I be singled out and punished for things that other students are openly encouraged to do? One student was even told he had permission to beat me up.

Either get rid of rules and laws and let natural selection run its course, or have the police haul the idiots away and taze them into submission.

Originally posted by trollz

I'm not being hypocritical at all.

Um yes. Yes you are. You are saying in one breath that a kid hitting a kid is wrong, but in the other breath an adult "beating a high school kid" is not. That's hypocritical. Sorry if you don't understand why that's the case. It is.

And the reason I have such a stance on this issue is because of my own personal experiences while in high school. Where I went, it wasn't as simple as "being a kid" and defending yourself. I was singled out

It was as simple as being a kid and defending yourself.

and harassed and bullied for 3 years and it was allowed to continue.

Like I said, intervention from the school faculty. It's part of their job and responsibility. Before the cops.

Now, if I was allowed to defend myself or do the same, fine, but I wasn't. There were several instances where I was punished for non-issues, while other kids were literally ALLOWED to carry out their bullying and harassment.

See all this makes very little sense.... you're saying that they were allowed for years to bully you but for years you were not allowed to defend yourself?? That's just BS man that makes no sense. I think ur making excuses for what you endured.

Either get rid of rules and laws and let natural selection run its course, or have the police haul the idiots away and taze them into submission.

So chaos or some kind of dystopia? Kinda dramatic to say the least..

How about the victim stop being a victim and do pushups, hit a bag, take some martial art classes, make friends with a big dude, etc.. Do we really really need to resort to dystopia or cop intervention here??

Sorry you never learned that lesson. Still time.

Originally posted by graphuto
While I don't agree with this, where have you been for the past 10 years? Ever since "Columbine" the schools have taken this "zero-tolerance" approach.

I’ve been raising my 15 year old, who, coincidently, goes to school.
He has came home a few times and told me about kids getting into fights, but he never mentioned “cops”, and I don’t see him leaving out that detail. My son goes to the same school district as the girl who got into the fight, but he doesn’t go to the Tech. school where the fight happened. Apparently they stick to the “zero tolerance” policy a lot closer than our school does.

Why not let the school counselors and principals do their jobs, first?

I take offence to the whole thing. I have seen more than a few fights over the years. In the “grown up” world do people whip out their phones and call the cops after breaking up a fight?? If it were my son I would feel slightly betrayed. That’s my kid, and I trust them to keep his best interests in mind. I do not think sending 2 generally good kids who got into a fight deserve to be sent to our local magistrate/judge.

I think it’s already been said, but I just think they’re a bunch of wussies. All they really care about is money, image, and liability. Seems like a pretty cold place to be

Maybe it's just because I'm from Texas, but starting the year after "Columbine" it became a criminal offense for school children to fight. Mandatory ticket (assault) and some time in ALC, Alternative School, the place they send the bad kids.

reply to post by graphuto


They are getting "disorderly conduct".

Originally posted by MidnightSunshine
reply to post by graphuto

 

They are getting "disorderly conduct".

Are they going to Alternative School? Where I lived, if any student got any type of law infraction, any type of ticket, even when not at school, they were placed in Alternative School.

Originally posted by underspace

Originally posted by trollz

I'm not being hypocritical at all.

Um yes. Yes you are. You are saying in one breath that a kid hitting a kid is wrong, but in the other breath an adult "beating a high school kid" is not. That's hypocritical. Sorry if you don't understand why that's the case. It is.

And the reason I have such a stance on this issue is because of my own personal experiences while in high school. Where I went, it wasn't as simple as "being a kid" and defending yourself. I was singled out

It was as simple as being a kid and defending yourself.

and harassed and bullied for 3 years and it was allowed to continue.

Like I said, intervention from the school faculty. It's part of their job and responsibility. Before the cops.

Now, if I was allowed to defend myself or do the same, fine, but I wasn't. There were several instances where I was punished for non-issues, while other kids were literally ALLOWED to carry out their bullying and harassment.

See all this makes very little sense.... you're saying that they were allowed for years to bully you but for years you were not allowed to defend yourself?? That's just BS man that makes no sense. I think ur making excuses for what you endured.

Either get rid of rules and laws and let natural selection run its course, or have the police haul the idiots away and taze them into submission.

So chaos or some kind of dystopia? Kinda dramatic to say the least..

How about the victim stop being a victim and do pushups, hit a bag, take some martial art classes, make friends with a big dude, etc.. Do we really really need to resort to dystopia or cop intervention here??

Sorry you never learned that lesson. Still time.

edit on 10-9-2011 by underspace because: (no reason given)

The faculty didn't intervene. My parents had tried to get involved several times and they refused to do anything. After long enough, they made a mockery of the situation by putting me in a room with one of the kids who was bullying me so that he could "apologize". I was physically pushed around but if I so much as said anything that could have been taken in any way aggressive, I was targeted by the faculty. One teacher even routinely antagonized me to try to get me to do or say something to get myself in trouble. She very literally sat next to me and tried to suggest that I'd like to "blow up the school" to get me to admit it. Like I said, I was singled out. I completely stopped going and nobody did anything about it. They didn't want me there.
And don't try to act like I was some weak pathetic kid who was afraid of standing up for myself. The ONLY reason I did not react to the bullying and harassment was because I understood the system, I understood that I'd be arrested. I wasn't one of the stupid kids that think they can do whatever they want.

Is it wrong for them to break the rules and assault one another? Yes, of course. Is it wrong for police to enforce basic laws? No, it's not. It's not hypocrisy. I could care less how they enforce it so long as they actually prevent this stupidity. If they traumatize some kid for fighting, they'll probably stop fighting. It's simple.

Originally posted by trollz

Originally posted by brommas
reply to post by trollz

 

"Having the police come get them would be an effective way to get across the fact that they're acting stupid" As oppose to the excellent behaviour shown by various police officers(and i use the term loosely) over recent times that have beaten mentally ill people to death, tased deaf people and the list goes on, i think that your nick says it all really.

I'm trying to make the point that the police intervention would prove to them that it's unacceptable. They may not care about a teacher reprimanding them with detention or suspension, but they'll care when they realize they could be sent away for the things they're doing. And to everyone who's bringing up the record thing, they don't need to have a record. I went to court myself and I have no criminal record.
And to be honest, I could care less if the police tazed or beat some high school kids.

Also, I just felt like clarifying about my username so as not to give the wrong impression: When I made this account I was listening to a band who's lyrics were focused heavily on folklore and trolls. I liked the imagery of an army of monsters coming forth from the deepest darkest depths of the forest to wreak havoc and terror on humanity.
It has nothing to do with "trolling".

The point i was making is that if you are talking about the police giving advice to children, then said policeforce, should be setting a shining example of how to behave, dont you think? point is, children fight, always have, always will, would you rather that we filled each child with drugs to calm them down before they go to school, kind of turn them into zombies? that would be much better, no emotion could be allowed to surface right? Those that can do, those that cant teach. says more about the state of the school system than anything else.

I am glad that you enjoyed listening to aband that was singing about folklore and stuff, sad thing is that the army you like to see in imagery marching out of the woods to wreak havoc and terror would be the police force.

You are a shining example of how not to be a human being, You couldnt careless if the police taser or beat a few high schoolers, You are really really sad, i do not even know you, but would you be happy if i saw you taking a beating or being tasered by police or anyone else for that matter and just took the opinion that you deserved it? I for one, could not just walk by that happening to anyone, black,yellow pink or green, old or young makes no difference. If you followed your example, then no one would care about anyone and the world would be going exactly the way that it is going, congrats. You are probably huddled in a corner hoping no terrorists land a plane on the building that you are hiding in.

Your nick like i said is the best example i have ever seen.

The faculty didn't intervene. My parents had tried to get involved several times and they refused to do anything. After long enough, they made a mockery of the situation by putting me in a room with one of the kids who was bullying me so that he could "apologize". I was physically pushed around but if I so much as said anything that could have been taken in any way aggressive, I was targeted by the faculty. One teacher even routinely antagonized me to try to get me to do or say something to get myself in trouble. She very literally sat next to me and tried to suggest that I'd like to "blow up the school" to get me to admit it. Like I said, I was singled out. I completely stopped going and nobody did anything about it. They didn't want me there. And don't try to act like I was some weak pathetic kid who was afraid of standing up for myself. The ONLY reason I did not react to the bullying and harassment was because I understood the system, I understood that I'd be arrested. I wasn't one of the stupid kids that think they can do whatever they want. Is it wrong for them to break the rules and assault one another? Yes, of course. Is it wrong for police to enforce basic laws? No, it's not. It's not hypocrisy. I could care less how they enforce it so long as they actually prevent this stupidity. If they traumatize some kid for fighting, they'll probably stop fighting. It's simple.

I think you maybe a little bias and blinded by your own personal experiences here, don't get me wrong it's sad that you had to go through such a bullying experience as a child but let's keep reality in mind; this is two kids having a scuffle; no need for the police.

Originally posted by Death_Kron

The faculty didn't intervene. My parents had tried to get involved several times and they refused to do anything. After long enough, they made a mockery of the situation by putting me in a room with one of the kids who was bullying me so that he could "apologize". I was physically pushed around but if I so much as said anything that could have been taken in any way aggressive, I was targeted by the faculty. One teacher even routinely antagonized me to try to get me to do or say something to get myself in trouble. She very literally sat next to me and tried to suggest that I'd like to "blow up the school" to get me to admit it. Like I said, I was singled out. I completely stopped going and nobody did anything about it. They didn't want me there. And don't try to act like I was some weak pathetic kid who was afraid of standing up for myself. The ONLY reason I did not react to the bullying and harassment was because I understood the system, I understood that I'd be arrested. I wasn't one of the stupid kids that think they can do whatever they want. Is it wrong for them to break the rules and assault one another? Yes, of course. Is it wrong for police to enforce basic laws? No, it's not. It's not hypocrisy. I could care less how they enforce it so long as they actually prevent this stupidity. If they traumatize some kid for fighting, they'll probably stop fighting. It's simple.

I think you maybe a little bias and blinded by your own personal experiences here, don't get me wrong it's sad that you had to go through such a bullying experience as a child but let's keep reality in mind; this is two kids having a scuffle; no need for the police.

edit on 10/9/11 by Death_Kron because: (no reason given)

Well see, I don't really fit certain punishments to certain crimes... I'm not sure how to explain what I mean but I will give you an example. To me, someone say being stood against a wall and shot for stealing a candy bar is not inappropriate. I don't really understand the whole thing. That's why I said before to either get rid of all laws, or let the police beat and taze the kids for what they're doing. If it prevents the negative behavior, why is it wrong? Even if you see it as harsh, how is it wrong for preventing negativity? The end justifies the means.

Originally posted by trollz
To me, someone say being stood against a wall and shot for stealing a candy bar is not inappropriate.

But then:

or let the police beat and taze the kids for what they're doing. If it prevents the negative behavior, why is it wrong?

Surely, that's a contradiction ?

Originally posted by Death_Kron

Originally posted by trollz
To me, someone say being stood against a wall and shot for stealing a candy bar is not inappropriate.

But then:

or let the police beat and taze the kids for what they're doing. If it prevents the negative behavior, why is it wrong?

Surely, that's a contradiction ?

I assume you're putting the "being shot" and "negative behavior" together. I didn't mean it as a contradiction at all. I personally don't see any problem with death, we all physically die. It's just as natural as breathing. I've faced situations in my life where I could have been murdered and it did not scare me or deter me. I know most people think death is bad, but I just don't. I never understood why people get so upset about it. Just recently I learned that a relative of mine had an accident and for all I knew they were dead. On my way to the hospital, the only "feelings" I had were wondering what changes I would have to make to my life if such were the case. I'm assuming it's our primitive survival instinct to be revolted by the idea of such things.

reply to post by trollz


No to be honest I was wondering why it would bother you if someone was shot for stealing candy but your fine with beating and tazing kids for something as insignificant as a school yard brawl ?

You know what? If I don't want a court date or jail time, I simply do not go around using others as a punching bag. Parents need a wake up call, do a better job at raising your child or heaven forbid, be inconvenienced by their idiotic behavior. They aren't 5 anymore, they know better. Teachers aren't security guards, and do not get paid nearly enough to constantly break up fights between adult sized human beings.


If a 15 year old hits me it's assault. It is just as much assault when it's directed at a fellow student.

Calling the police is going way to far. All they are doing is turning everyone into rats and weaklings.

Seriously? Lets all be 'hard', and not weak a$* little snitches? Come on, we don't live in a rap song.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by trollz

 

No to be honest I was wondering why it would bother you if someone was shot for stealing candy but your fine with beating and tazing kids for something as insignificant as a school yard brawl ?

It wouldn't bother me, I said I wouldn't find it inappropriate.
My thinking is if you get caught doing something you're not supposed to do, no punishment is "wrong". Either get away with it or don't do it in the first place.

Originally posted by graphuto

Originally posted by MidnightSunshine
reply to post by graphuto

 

They are getting "disorderly conduct".

Are they going to Alternative School? Where I lived, if any student got any type of law infraction, any type of ticket, even when not at school, they were placed in Alternative School.

ye

It happened yesterday, so I don't know what's going to happen yet. I know she got suspended for 3 days from both schools, could possibly be kicked out of the culinary program/Tech school, and the disorderly conduct charge.

Originally posted by CN1018
You know what? If I don't want a court date or jail time, I simply do not go around using others as a punching bag. Parents need a wake up call, do a better job at raising your child or heaven forbid, be inconvenienced by their idiotic behavior. They aren't 5 anymore, they know better. Teachers aren't security guards, and do not get paid nearly enough to constantly break up fights between adult sized human beings.

If a 15 year old hits me it's assault. It is just as much assault when it's directed at a fellow student.

Calling the police is going way to far. All they are doing is turning everyone into rats and weaklings.

Seriously? Lets all be 'hard', and not weak a$* little snitches? Come on, we don't live in a rap song.

I agree, the parents take a big role in the way their children turn out. And the teenagers DO know it's wrong to fight one another. They may be emotionally vulnerable, but they still know they're not supposed to do it. They're not small children who don't understand. And like you said, the teachers usually don't want anything to do with it, so it's often allowed.
Rules and order do not make people weak.