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Dole says Kerry Should Apoligize To Vets

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posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by GrndLkNatv
In Bob Doles autobiography he explains his purple heart came from a grenade he threw which bounced off a rock and blew up, sending shrapnel all over the place, some of which hit him so he gov gave him a purple heart. Now he's complaining about Kerry. Can you say Hipocrit?


Here are the criteria for the Purple Heart. I don't know anything about this particular story, but if that grenade was thrown at the enemy, regardless of any other factors, the Purple Heart was properly awarded. Bob Dole was so severely wounded that he did not need a Purple Heart to come home and there was no three wounds and you're out rule in WWII.

[edit on 04/8/24 by GradyPhilpott]


So...Kerry should apologize to the vets. For not only coming home saying ALL American troops were commenting war crimes but then he has the nerve to use his war time record as a center piece for his campaign.




posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Unauthorized absence, Absence over Leave, Absence without Leave and Desertion are all
serious offenses that do not go unpunished. I don't care who you are.


Now Grady- "we" know this isn't really true, don't we.

Lots of UA Marines routinely were sent stateside or back in-country. Lots of pilots
(officers) were treated the same. Very little brig time and almost zero bad-conducts were
meted out.

I've seen guys sent "to the world" for serious drug abuse, including major dealing- a little
hospital time and . . . well if you were NH Sasebo you know those guys got off easy. You're lucky you didn't get docked into the USS Repose or some other floating 'tender.'

I'm kind of surprised to see a Vet being so pro-Bush. Veteran benefits mean a lot to me and others- Bush doesn't get it.

A few:
In These Times story

Political amazon- bush page

Common Dreams

USWA Bush/vet page

And hundreds of others.

Like the Democrats or not- they went!

From Goldwater's sons to Bush 'they' let others carry the burden. Hiding out in college with a deferment was the smart way. Many opted for another way- they protested and resisted. Some went to jail while others went to Canada.


It took guts to pardon those men (women were exempted- yeah feminism). Jimmy Carter- Just a day after Jimmy Carter's inauguration, he followed through on a contentious campaign promise, granting a presidential pardon to those who had avoided the draft during the Vietnam war by either not registering or traveling abroad.

The pardon meant the government was giving up forever the right to prosecute what the administration said were hundreds of thousands of draft-dodgers.


Like the decision or not it took guts!



posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Now Grady- "we" know this isn't really true, don't we.

Lots of UA Marines routinely were sent stateside or back in-country. Lots of pilots (officers) were treated the same. Very little brig time and almost zero bad-conducts were meted out.


I don't know exactly what you're talking about. I have known Marines who went "over the hill" for extended periods of time who served brig time and bad time and went on to be good Marines.

I have never known anyone who was UA and who did not have to face the music, no matter how minor the punishment might have been. There's a big difference between nothing and a BCD and/or brig time.

People are suggesting that Bush "deserted" and no one noticed. I don't believe that. It's not consistent with my experience.

Read this.



I'm kind of surprised to see a Vet being so pro-Bush. Veteran benefits mean a lot to me and others- Bush doesn't get it.


Personally, I never vote for my personal well-being. To do so would be selling out. I vote for the greater good. I vote my conscience.

[edit on 04/8/25 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 10:53 PM
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GradyPhilpott - I took little notice when you said that my ava "officially twisted" explained my view on Kerry and Vietnam and all but accused me of condoning genocide ("how do you sleep at night?", you asked). Now I see you're calling other posters "liars" and "disgrace on America" because they don't agree with you.

I can't believe how deprived of nuance you are. If Kerry (like Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King) spoke up against the war in Vietnam, he was a traitor to his fellow soldiers. Did it occur to you that it's possible to support troops without supporting the reasoning sending them to war? That it's possible for some U.S. soldiers to lament that their comrades are being put in harm's way for the wrong reason? That if some of your comrades committed shameful acts and that to protect the integrity of the uniform you feel the need to take the stand and let it be known? I suppose that the whistle-blower who told of the abuses at Abu Ghraib is a traitor too, then...

And I suppose the 50 percent of Americans who might vote for Kerry are Un-American?



posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 11:02 PM
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Who cares what he has to say? Kerry doesnt owe an apology to anyone.
When is Bush going to apologize to humanity?



posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by Otts
GradyPhilpott - I took little notice when you said that my ava "officially twisted" explained my view on Kerry and Vietnam and all but accused me of condoning genocide ("how do you sleep at night?", you asked). Now I see you're calling other posters "liars" and "disgrace on America" because they don't agree with you.


If you follow the context of the thread, my calling individuals liars and disgraces is consistent with allegations made in their posts. It sometimes serves a good purpose to mirror a person's tactics so that they can possibly see the error of their ways.
Fat chance!

If you did not support America in Vietnam, you supported the communists. If you supported the communists then you are partly responsible for the genocide committed by the communists. You can't really have it both ways. You made your choice. I'm sorry. I know this is a heavy burden. I have Vietnamese friends who lived under the communists and I believe them. Pick up a copy of this book at your first opportunity.

John Kerry lied about the American actions in Vietnam and ignored the rampant atrocities committed by the communists. In his capacity as a Swift Boat Captain, he could not have had as vast a knowledge of the activities he alleged--unless he commtted such acts. The man is a liar and a communist supporter. He is a traitor.


I can't believe how deprived of nuance you are. If Kerry (like Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King) spoke up against the war in Vietnam, he was a traitor to his fellow soldiers. Did it occur to you that it's possible to support troops without supporting the reasoning sending them to war? That it's possible for some U.S. soldiers to lament that their comrades are being put in harm's way for the wrong reason? That if some of your comrades committed shameful acts and that to protect the integrity of the uniform you feel the need to take the stand and let it be known?


If I hadn't served in Vietnam. If I hadn't served with a multitude of others who served in Vietnam. If I didn't know countless others who served in Vietnam. If I had an IQ of 85. If I had supported the murdering communists during the Vietnam war, I might believe these things.



I suppose that the whistle-blower who told of the abuses at Abu Ghraib is a traitor too, then...


The allegations made at Abu Ghraib turned out to be true. The prison at Abu Ghraib was not representative of the entire war effort in Iraq. In fact, it is now known that the graveyard shift at Abu Ghraib was not representative of Abu Ghraib. I'm deprived of nuance?


And I suppose the 50 percent of Americans who might vote for Kerry are Un-American?


Those who vote for Kerry will vote for a traitor. Some of those are un-American.



posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
When is Bush going to apologize to humanity?


It is actually Kerry who should apologize to humanity for supporting the communists during the war in Vietnam.

Bush has rid the world of a brutal dictator and is hard on the trail of a mass murderer. I think you should apologize to humanity.



posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 11:51 PM
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Your opinion is heard loud and clear all over roof tops. Im entitled to mine.
Bush needs to apologize to the world. Kerry is no traitor. Why is he a traitor? He didnt bleed profusely enough for your taste in the war, did he?
Well, at least he showed up for duty. That makes him a traitor?
You're so obviously desperate and grabing at straws because you know that Bush is done for.
Out with the old, in with the new. Enough of the lies, the genocide, invasions, killing of innocent people, abuse, etc.
We've had enough.

Grady, you bring out the animal in me.


Its not 1945 anymore. Its 2004 and the world doesnt need a maniacal barbarian. OUT OUT OUT

P.s.- there's still hope for you Grady, Bush and his gov will DO something, anything in order to remain 4 MORE YEARS. What? I donno. But fear not, they will try to stay at ANY COST. Then you can rejoyce.
g'nite.



posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpottIf you did not support America in Vietnam, you supported the communists. If you supported the communists then you are partly responsible for the genocide committed by the communists. You can't really have it both ways. You made your choice. I'm sorry. I know this is a heavy burden.


How righteous you are.

Shaming other posters who disagree with you by accusing them of personally supporting traitors or condoning genocide is an effective tactic for discouraging discussion, since the only valid point of view is yours. It is also a tactic of dominance and bullying.

Good day to you, sir.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by Otts

Good day to you, sir.


Good day to you, dear madam. Certainly the way to keep an open mind is to ignore the opposing voice. Embrace Igonrance. The truth hurts.

[edit on 04/8/25 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Personally, I never vote for my personal well-being. To do so would be selling out. I vote for the greater good. I vote my conscience.



I suppose "the greater good" has a different meaning to some folks. I believe in personal rights and responsibilities.

Anyway, thanks for the URL- it'll be some good reads.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
Kerry is no traitor. Why is he a traitor? He didnt bleed profusely enough for your taste in the war, did he?


If you would read my posts, I clearly outline why John Kerry is a traitor. In a nutshell:

HE SUPPORTED THE COMMUNISTS OF N. VIETNAM WHO INVADED THE SOVEREIGN SOUTH AND MURDERED TENS OF THOUSANDS OF INNOCENTS, RECRUITED FOLLOWERS BY MURDERING INNOCENT MEMBERS OF VILLAGES, AND LATER, AFTER THE LIKES OF KERRY ERODED AMERICAN CONFIDENCE, WENT ON TO IMPOSE A BRUTAL, MURDEROUS DICTATORSHIP IN VIETNAM AND COMMIT GENOCIDE AGAINST THE CAMBODIANS, AMONG OTHER THINGS!

Is that plain enough for you.



Its not 1945 anymore. Its 2004 and the world doesnt need a maniacal barbarian. OUT OUT OUT


I know what year it is and the situation is such that we need a leader with the integrity and commitment of George W. Bush.

Goodnight.

[edit on 04/8/25 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 07:08 AM
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Grady, unfortunately you are wasting your time with this bunch of people. They have been brainwashed by the Dems that Bush is evil, and that rich people are evil, that everyone should be the same, we should have socialized medicine, that the government should pay for everyone, that no-one should own property or have a business without the government fingers getting money from it. Sorta sounds like Communism to me. I quess that's why they want Kerry. It's funny, I thought the American Dream involved starting out poor and getting wealthy. I didn't think that it meant having to pay for everyone else who refuses to work.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by AntiPolitrix
Dole-"One day he's saying that we were shooting civilians, cutting off their ears, cutting off their heads, throwing away his medals or his ribbons," Dole said. "The next day he's standing there, 'I want to be president because I'm a Vietnam veteran.'


F**k that old SOB. He's nothing but a yes man. That is exactly why I voted for Pat Buchanan (in the '96 primaries) instead of Dole. He's a worthless piece of shyte.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by jrsdls
I thought the American Dream involved starting out poor and getting wealthy. I didn't think that it meant having to pay for everyone else who refuses to work.


It is a shame 40 something percent of Americans have been brainwashed and it is killing this country. I will vote for Bush because we dont need a pirate from a swft boat to run this country. Kerry spent 4 month fighting Vietnam, Bush has been fighting terrorism for...ahh...3 years!! I'll take Bush to fight the war on terror. We need someone with experience of the war we are fighting today, not a war we fought 30 years ago.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid

F**k that old SOB. That is exactly why I voted for Pat Buchanan (in the '96 primaries) instead of Dole.


But atleast do you see his point. Even if you hate Dole he has a valid point. Kerry should have never used his military as a center piece to his campaign, especially after his speech in 1971.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by jrsdls
Grady, unfortunately you are wasting your time with this bunch of people. They have been brainwashed by the Dems that Bush is evil, and that rich people are evil, that everyone should be the same, we should have socialized medicine, that the government should pay for everyone, that no-one should own property or have a business without the government fingers getting money from it. Sorta sounds like Communism to me. I quess that's why they want Kerry. It's funny, I thought the American Dream involved starting out poor and getting wealthy. I didn't think that it meant having to pay for everyone else who refuses to work.


Sorry, sweetheart, I hate to dissapoint you all but I have NEVER taken a handout in my life, thank you. I come from a well-to do family, who happened to work their butts off in order to achieve success.
Sorry, no trailer trash here.
In fact, i've spoken to trailer dwellers who are very hospitable, giving of what little they have with hearts of gold and honestly down and out on their luck..LETS NOT HELP THE POOR, LETS GIVE OUR MILLIONS IN TAXES TO IRAQ AND OTHER NATIONS AS THIS GOVERNMENT SEES FIT. LETS MAKE BUSH AND CHENEY MORE MONEY-$$$$$$$$$$. YEA, THATS THE TICKET.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by jrsdls
Grady, unfortunately you are wasting your time with this bunch of people. They have been brainwashed by the Dems that Bush is evil, and that rich people are evil, that everyone should be the same, we should have socialized medicine, that the government should pay for everyone, that no-one should own property or have a business without the government fingers getting money from it. Sorta sounds like Communism to me. I quess that's why they want Kerry. It's funny, I thought the American Dream involved starting out poor and getting wealthy. I didn't think that it meant having to pay for everyone else who refuses to work.


I don't know which news you are reading or listening too, but your views of those who oppose Bush, Kerry's platform, and the definition of democracy, communism, and the American dream are very distorted.

As a property owner that has worked hard my entire life and am paid well by most standards, I take offense to being called a "communist" because I oppose supporting a president that admits that he doesn't read, injects his evangelical religious beliefs into public policy, employs economic policies that disadvantage most of the country, has set the environment back 20 years, and employs foreign policy for imperialistic purposes. And if YOU stop being brainwashed by Fox news and actually do some legitimate research, you will find that these statements are not the result of brainwashing--there is cold, hard evidence that in the past four years, our position as a global power has been put in jeopardy, the economic recovery is non-existent, and the social climate of this country has become extremely volatile.

As far as Kerry's record in Vietnam goes, I think that it is Bush who should personally apologize for the mudslinging as he threw the first handful. To question whether or not Kerry deserved his medals, especially when it originates from a man who wasn't even there is beyond disrespectful. It is clear who is behind the attacks when two people associated with the Bush campaign are involved with the group putting out the ads--AND Bush & Co. have been aggressively pursuing 527 fundraising.

Dole is just adding more fuel to the fire. There are two sides to every story and it is clear that there are many in the military who believe in a code of silence, regardless of the fact that what is surpresses may be illegal activity, atrocities, or exposing military incompetance. To oppose a military decision, even one that is illogical or ill-fated, is insubordination to many in the military. Dole is obviously of this ilk, as I am assuming are many of those Vets who oppose Kerry and support someone who didn't even serve.

The atrocities that were committed in Vietnam are a matter of record--not a figment of some left-wing imagination. It is a fact that the decision to go into Vietnam was ill-fated and accomplished little. Poor planning, poor training and the use of chemical-warfare led to acts that made Abu Graib look like Disneyland in comparison. Kerry went to Vietnam and had first-hand knowledge of what was going on--why is everyone up in arms that he would come back and be disillusioned? Very bad things were happening in Vietnam--to call him on the fact that he stood up and said something about it doesn't make sense. Perhaps in the bizarre world of military "codes", where it is expected that you keep silent about mistakes and bad decisions, what he did is traitorous, but in the real world, where we are encouraged to challenge our leaders and considered to be equally as guilty if we don't go to the police when our boss does something illegal, this defines him as a leader.

What still kills me is the fact that there are many that don't see that this is not an act of condemning the military. It is disagreeing with the leadership--not the soldiers. Perhaps the fact that he "broke the code" is the issue... but isn't this code unethical?



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by jrsdls
Grady, unfortunately you are wasting your time with this bunch of people.
I understand your point, but one never wastes time dispelliing falsehoods, fallacies and lies. I'm a convert so I've been in both camps. You never know how one seed of truth can take hold and bear fruit.



posted on Aug, 25 2004 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by marg6043
With all your respect as a veteran of war I will have to say that been a veteran does not make you and expert and that people in this forums


My veteran status is noted in my biography as an important part of my life. It has come up in various forums relative to my experience with matters of war. This evening I related details of my Vietnam tour after someone questioned my having been alive during the Vietnam war.

Aside from that, I suppose it is of little consequence and I do a lot of research and my opinions and positions are based upon considerable knowledge and experience.

And I don't care how you cut it, GW never was AWOL or a deserter from the NG. Unauthorized absence, Absence over Leave, Absence without Leave and Desertion are all serious offenses that do not go unpunished. I don't care who you are.
My husband served in Viet Nam, and was in the Marine Corps for 8 years. He is NOT on your side. My husband is a true patriot but is not blind as you are.
You think other posters are lesser than you because YOU are an Ex-marine.
Not so.
Many veterans do not share in your point of view and see things happening for what they really are. At this point, Kerry would be a much welcome relief. You're spending way too much time listening to Rush Bimbaugh and other evil talking heads. Now, THERE's a patriotic bunch!
* Just give me 3 hours a day...everyday...so I can brainwash you and posess you...that's all i ask......*
- what WILL they do when they're defeated? I cant wait!



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