Teachers and Ignorance

Originally posted by cyberdude78

Originally posted by brimstone735

Please ask these teachers why they never taught you about commas. If you're going to argue with a teacher, you should at least be able to speak the same language. It might help.

Excuse me but this thread is about how some not all teachers have ignorance problems. This thread does not have anything to do with any person's puncuation. Next can you present proof that I am not simply say a German who recently learned English. Now I don't mind if you make a comment on my English or spelling, but I do mind insults such as your's.

Now back on topic, I can definitely agree that its the parents job to teach their children responsibilty. On the other hand its still a problem that in a number of cases children are in school longer than they see their parents during the week. I find that the best teachers I've had also taught me about reality, not just what happened 2000 years ago. A good teacher can get a person to learn facts, a great teacher can teach a child about how those facts apply to them.

EDIT: Spelling errors, thanks for the spelling lesson Goregrinder

[edit on 9/30/2004 by cyberdude78]

Nonsense, it has everything to do with your punctuation. You can't claim that teachers are ignorant, and be ignorant yourself. Commas may not seem like much, but they negate the validity of your entire arguement. It's hardly an insult to point these things out.

They have commas in Germany too.

Just so you know I'm not German, I don't speak German, Germany was just a random example of a foreign nation. Also it may be the teachers fault that I that I never learned a lot about commas. I would respect what you have to say except for the fact that you had to go and insult me. If you really want to complain about my mistakes go ahead and tell a moderator or start a thread about it. I'll work on my English, but you really need to learn proper communication skills (that means more to the point and less insults). Now if you don't mind I would like to get back on topic.

As people said earlier it is definitly important that a teacher also stimulate the creative side of a childs brain. Look at the Socrates method. First ask a question like a good student, next listen for anwsers, then question the anwsers. This is an excellent method that was frequently used by one of the best teachers I ever had.


[edit on 9/30/2004 by cyberdude78]

Originally posted by cyberdude78
Just so you know I'm not German, I don't speak German, Germany was just a random example of a foreign nation. Also it may be the teachers fault that I that I never learned a lot about commas. I would respect what you have to say except for the fact that you had to go and insult me. If you really want to complain about my mistakes go ahead and tell a moderator or start a thread about it. I'll work on my English, but you really need to learn proper communication skills (that means more to the point and less insults). Now if you don't mind I would like to get back on topic.

[edit on 9/30/2004 by cyberdude78]

Again, it wasn't an insult. It was a valid point. You are taking it personally, which might be indicative of other things wrong with your arguement. For the record, it is YOUR fault if you haven't grasped the concept of the comma.

Teachers are there as a service for you. If you choose to deny that service, then accept responsibility for the outcome.

Since you insist that you weren't trying to insult me I'll take your word for it. I'll agree that your point was somewhat valid, if not in the right place. If you wish to continue discussing the use of comma's feel free to either U2U me, or start a new thread on it. I do admit I may have been slightly inmature handling this, and don't worry I intend on working on the use of commas.

Does it help children learn correctly when correcting a teacher, or does it undermine authority. I believe that it helps in more ways then one. I can agree that many teachers do an excellent job, none the less teachers have a major effect on our children. If we have teachers presenting incorrect facts children will believe that, and trust me sometimes a single fact can have a huge effect on test scores. I realize teachers are only human, so it's natural for them to make mistakes. Still I don't understand why some teachers are allowed to continue making mistakes even though they have been shown the correct method or anwser.

Originally posted by PistolPete

I'm currently still in college and most of my friends that are going to be teachers aren't the brightest, it's scary. I tell them all the time that they can never teach my kids.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of GREAT teachers out there. People that are really brilliant and passionate and could be making a lot more money doing something else, but just love doin what they do. That shouldn't be overlooked.

I'm currently in an elementary education program in college, and it's ridiculous. I had to take "mathematics for elementary school teachers," and it was basically teaching us elementary concepts through different number systems (non base-10 number systems, roman numerals). That lasted a whole 2 weeks. The other people in my class didn't even understand basic math. Granted, I tested into the highest "freshman" math, but I don't understand how college students (teacher hopefuls) cannot understand basic concepts of geometry such as rays and lines. Sometimes, just going into my education classes makes me feel sick to my stomach.

Originally posted by ehdreehn
Sorry to just show up in the thread, but I'm really interested in what you all have to say. From my standpoint, the main purpose of schooling is not to shove information down your throats and make you eat it, and then spit it back out to make sure you ate it, but to help you mature as individuals.

I feel like I might be black balled if I say this but, I'm a teacher myself and I hate the idea of humiliating a student ever... Helping kids reach maturity, and become life long learners is my true goal.

Also, I'm only 25, and remember teachers are only human, not information robots.

I feel you. I'm going to teach elementary school (hopefully 4th grade) and I don't know how well it's going to fly. I think children are ready to handle more mature objects than they're confronted with at that age. I mean, locally, some girl that was around the age of 11 performed felatio on 15+ students on a school bus before she got caught. If kids are going to be engaging in this kind of stuff, I think they should at least know the consequences of it.

I'm not afraid to be corrected, because I too am still learning. The moment you stop learning is the moment you cease to exist and function. I think the most important thing is to teach children that they control their own learning.

To end with a paraphrase of George Carlin:

Don't tell children to read every day, tell children to question what they read every day.

I had a huge arguement with my Socials Teacher a frew days ago.
She went of on a spiel about how in order to have democracy we MUST have the government controlling our education. Otherwise we won't know how to decide when voting.
Naturally, I argued. I told her that a government monopoly over such an important aspect of the lives of our children is not such a good Idea, and hinders our natural mind development and critical thinking.

She laughed in a knowing way and said to me:
"Ah... I think you read to many books. One day you'll realize how wonderful our country is. We CANNOT have democracy unless the government teaches us what we need to know. That's really all we need."
The sad thing is, nobody in my socials class reads books for fun, or in their spare time. None of them use the internet for a purpose other then instant messaging. They will take that information the teacher spurted out and adopt it as truth.

>> ...we MUST have the government controlling our education.
>> Otherwise we won't know how to decide when voting.

Sure the government has to "educate" people about how to vote!
Otherwise people might just start thinking on their own and vote the way the government does not want them to.

On the other side, why to argue with her? Her task is to turn you into a walking peace of mean with an SSN, that would pey his taxes, press the right button on the voting machine once in a while and, most important, believe that he is a free, thinking human being.

[edit on 28-10-2004 by bratok]

Hi,

I regularly read ATS and enjoy the debate. Just thought I'd sign up & chime in on this one; I am a teacher and Head of Year in a UK secondary school. I have the degree, teacher's post grad certificate and a Masters degree in Education.

I want to stress that teachers are not above correction from the pupil's in their class and can often benefit from their contribution in many ways. Teachers do not and can not know everything. This applies to their respective subject specialisms. For instance, my subject is Design & Technology and by it's nature I can not acquire the skills of a master craftsman during teacher training. I do however acknowledge to the pupil's that I am not perfect and will mess up. Accepting and overcoming failure is a lesson to pupil's in itself. If I can then they can. No probs, it's part of life. I could go on with regard to this.

What does interest me is how out of touch many people (parents included) are with what goes on in Western schools. I do not profess to understand country specifics, but suffice to say, the goal between countries is largely the same.

The function of school in modern western society is to prepare the emerging workforce. You do not learn things for the benefit of learning, you learn what policy makers indicate is best for the prosperity of the economy in their respective country at that time. When does a business for instance require their workforce to understand how the Great White shark breeds? I am interested in sea life, but was never taught that because it would not increase productivity or benefit a company in some way. You are taught what the country needs.

I also find it amusing on discussion forums when board elders pick at grammer and message compostition of other members, particularly those that the elders assume are younger than themselves and begin to whine about what is taught in schools and those that teach. If only they knew (understand) what is happening. Education is evolving in many ways - maybe adapting in a sense, but nonetheless, what elders were taught is irrelevent in many instances today. Kids use a spellcheck and calculators so a lot of mental skills fall to second place - get over it. Sure there are things that are the same/similar but education has moved on. It is because of this that there is such a thing as adult education. Adults can't keep up and need retraining.

Some teachers need to recognise this evolution as the posts here indicate.

Teaching is commonly a 30+ year career and yet it constantly is changing with new initiatives and priorities. Dramatic change comes around every 10 years or so (UK GCSE qualifications for example) and some teachers struggle to adapt. I know teachers who taught O Level/CSE years ago then GCSE and NVQ at present and now moving on to diplomas etc. By the time they know one qualification inside and out another comes along. As such, they struggle and take it out on the kids unfairly. They aren't able to keep up. They are also often hacked off and ready for retirement.

I say pay them off. If you do not enjoy the job, respect the client (pupil) and therefore are able to give it your best then "goodbye" because the teacher is providing a diservice above all else.

I suspect a few mentioned here deserve discharge whether honorable or not.