Israel to ‘punish’ Turkey

Originally posted by CountDrac
reply to post by backinblack

 

By aid you mean Weapons. We saw how well it worked for israel when they left Gaza. A week didnt pass by and the palestinian animals starting shooting rockets at civilian towns in northern israel. So much for peace with Arabs...

Gaza is a joke, israel should transfer all the palestinians there to jordan and be done with them...

edit on 13-9-2011 by CountDrac because: (no reason given)

draco, sounds like you been drinkin' to much blood, might be wise to give it a rest for a while huh?

reply to post by fooks


Hey.. wow.. we agree. No genocide should be ignored.
However, Israel can fight this one on their own in my opinion. Turkey would probably knock Israel out in conventional war, but Israel has the nuclear deterrent. We don't need to be involved or it will cause either a world war or a second, bigger cold war.

I think most of you are missing the forest because of trees. Israel and Turkey will not fight. Here is why:

This is all part of the Greater Middle East Project. Last year someone pushed a button and we end up with the Arab spring in all these countries. These countries need a new form of government, one in which there is more tolerance and democracy. So you have Turkey in the region - only secular, democracy with a conservative, elected government. If you also look at the history of the ME, it is clear there can not be any Great Game in this region without Turks. Someone is trying to put Turks in charge. How do you do that? by having Erdogan attack Israel and by Israel being its own belligerent self. Arabs are sick of tired of Israel and their own ineffective leaders. But Turks are a different story:
They ruled over Arabs and Jews in ME 600 years. They have no fear of any one in that region and they know the culture very well.
They are a NATO ally with a powerful military.
Turkish economy is the fastest growing economy in the world today (even faster than China). In the next decade, they will be within the top 10 largest economies in the world.
They have a legitimately elected party in power, with a very popular, tough leader - Erdogan.
There is a major transfer of popular culture and values from Turks to Arab nations for several years now. Most watched shows in these countries are Turkish soap operas which spread ideas of personal freedom, liberal views of women, love, dating, education etc..

Today, Erdogan was on Egyptian TV extolling the virtues of the secular democracy and his hopes the Egypt will follow Turkey's lead. So what we are looking at here is an attempt to create a more friendly ME. I also think TPTB do not like the current Israeli government, hence, any unsuccessful skirmish with Turkey may bring down an already unpopular government. Also, in the long run, Israel will profit from this because there will be more security for her. This is my theory and I believe we will see it being proven in several years.

Originally posted by ladyvictoria5
I think most of you are missing the forest because of trees. Israel and Turkey will not fight. Here is why:

This is all part of the Greater Middle East Project. Last year someone pushed a button and we end up with the Arab spring in all these countries. These countries need a new form of government, one in which there is more tolerance and democracy. So you have Turkey in the region - only secular, democracy with a conservative, elected government. If you also look at the history of the ME, it is clear there can not be any Great Game in this region without Turks. Someone is trying to put Turks in charge. How do you do that? by having Erdogan attack Israel and by Israel being its own belligerent self. Arabs are sick of tired of Israel and their own ineffective leaders. But Turks are a different story:
They ruled over Arabs and Jews in ME 600 years. They have no fear of any one in that region and they know the culture very well.
They are a NATO ally with a powerful military.
Turkish economy is the fastest growing economy in the world today (even faster than China). In the next decade, they will be within the top 10 largest economies in the world.
They have a legitimately elected party in power, with a very popular, tough leader - Erdogan.
There is a major transfer of popular culture and values from Turks to Arab nations for several years now. Most watched shows in these countries are Turkish soap operas which spread ideas of personal freedom, liberal views of women, love, dating, education etc..

Today, Erdogan was on Egyptian TV extolling the virtues of the secular democracy and his hopes the Egypt will follow Turkey's lead. So what we are looking at here is an attempt to create a more friendly ME. I also think TPTB do not like the current Israeli government, hence, any unsuccessful skirmish with Turkey may bring down an already unpopular government. Also, in the long run, Israel will profit from this because there will be more security for her. This is my theory and I believe we will see it being proven in several years.

I thought I was the only one who can see the game being played in the ME .

I agree with your opinion on how things are in ME .

Today , USA & Turks have signed the deal for the missile shield - radar bases to be situated in Turkey .

Alternative to Turks being the regional power in ME is Iran or Arabs or Israelis .



Place your bets , wheel is turning .

I thought I was the only one who can see the game being played in the ME .

I agree with your opinion on how things are in ME .

Today , USA & Turks have signed the deal for the missile shield - radar bases to be situated in Turkey .

Alternative to Turks being the regional power in ME is Iran or Arabs or Israelis .



Place your bets , wheel is turning .




Exactly, Iran is not an option -They are not as powerful as fear mongering politicians are making them out to be anyway. Also, Iranian government has no legitimacy and population is very restless.
Israel can't be an option for the obvious reasons. So, that only leaves Turkey - they are the true powerhouse in the region. They have been ignoring the ME since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, trying to gain entrance into the Western club. However, it is not surprising that as they get economically powerful, they will start flexing their muscles. They have a very high self-esteem and still remember the glory days of Ottoman Empire. I think they are realistic about what they can accomplish - there can not be a second empire - but they can influence the future of the ME.

Respectfully, I disagree.

It was not long ago that Turkey was run by the military, and despite many of the old guard being gone, the military still holds much influence in Turkish politics.
Also, modern Turks do not associate themselves with their Ottoman past, but more so with the vision of Ataturk's notion of a self-preserving secular state.
I don't see them as a beacon of light for the ME, since the region has only a luke-warm relationship with them at best (although their tough stance with Israel may help to bring them closer to the Arab nations).

I think that the Arab Spring will bring in more democracy, but that may lead to an even more unstable ME.
There is a distinct possibility that these nations (Egypt, Libya, Yemen) vote in more extreme parties into power, thus putting Israel into an even more defensive posture (see the rise of a Hamas as an example).
Turkey will certainly play as a role model, but other than Syria, I don't see any other country following their example.
A more defensive Israel = a higher chance of another pre-emptive attack by them again.

What you say may have been true ten years ago but it is no longer the case. Turkish military have been taken out of the politics by AK party (they arrested 43 high ranking military officials within the last two years alone). There is a great nostalgia for the former empire days and it is expressed more by people. All public surveys indicate support for joining the EU is on all time low and economic relations with ME is getting better everyday. Erdogan has been extremely popular in the ME recently and as I have mentioned before one should never underestimate the influence of the popular culture- www.nytimes.com...

AK party is incredibly business friendly, consequently, the economy has been booming and international investment is at all time high. As more powerful Turkey gets, it will have more influence in the ME. There is simply no question about it. I think most people don't know the ruling family in Egypt until 1950's was from a Turkish descent so I would not be so sure they will not follow with a Turkish style secular constitution. Syria was Turkish providence just 80 years ago. Tunisia already indicated they may go for a Turkish style democracy. All these countries have cultural ties to Turkey and these ties were not important before because Turks choose to ignore them. But now that they are not ignoring ME, it was only matter of time before they knock heads with Israel.
Having said that, Turkey and Israel has 2B worth of trade and also very tight historical ties. Ottoman Empire saved half a million Jews from the Spanish Inquisition in 1500's and since then, their relations have been mostly friendly. That's why Turkey recognized Israel in 1949 as a State, horrifying other ME countries. So I believe this is just a one big game to bring more tolerant democracy to the ME.

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy
Lmfao.
Is this entire forum filled with little kids? What's this crap about "Israel pissing it's pants" and "Turkey losing sleep at night"? You guys for sure aren't for real, are you? Damn shame if you are.

This is nothing but a big blowing of hot air. Nothing will happen. No Turkish ship will enter Israeli waters and if it will, it will be destroyed and the Turks will have nothing to do but to weep in their own misery for not learning not to break our naval blockade.

You guys that are talking so much about how 'this' is scared of 'that' probably never seen a gun before, let alone know something about military/political/naval conflicts such as this one. Stop making a joke out of yourselves ffs.
Seriously, go put on a mini skirt, pom pons, and a sign that says "GO TURKEY" while making silly jumps and singing lousy catchphrases. You give out the impression of nothing more than a bunch of cheerleaders that can barely understand the game being played or what are the rules.



-From the Israeli POV: You can be dead sure nobody is scared of any Turkish ship, especially not at these times. So ships are on their way, so what? They can go all the way if they feel the need to, it's just stupid to believe a Turkish armed ship is going to try and break the naval blockade.

edit on 9-9-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-9-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)

Kol HaKavod!!!!