People and Patriotism? a conspiracy within itself?

Why are people, so blinded by patriotism that makes them not see through it?
How do people feel special, because they are simply born in a different place, something they have no control over?
Is patriotism there, for sheep to basically keep the other sheep in line?
ie, if you criticize something about the country you live in, someone else, who is patriotic, will obviously insult you, and everyone goes along with it, doesn't that make the whole concept of free speech hypocritical?
Whats the point in free speech, if you can't even freely say anything without getting hurt.

I mean look at it, you'd have to been pretty dumb to feel accomplishment in something you had no part in and something that you have no control over right, hell i'd say thats cheating, and where i come from we play fair.

Is this whole notion of patriotism, just there to keep people fighting over nothing?
Since that's what patriotism is basically.

And this isn't an attack on america, i've seen more patriots who are from all around the place than anything, it's a general question, that applies to everyone around the globe.

high correlation found! although IQ tests are often US government- centered. i remember one of the questions used to be who discovered America, who were the first settlers of America, etc.

but..

i reckon if ya don't like it here,

get da buck out!

reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien


So basically you're saying that people who have achieved little, bathe in the reflected glory (as they perceive it) of their country. Interesting proposition! S&F.

People make me mad sometimes. it's almost as if everyone is living in this fog, or haze. Most not only believe everything they hear, but don't even have the thought to question it. It simply doesn't occur to most to question they're news source, or what the government says.

Don't get it. Can't explain it. It's tough when you know it's all a lie, and see through it, but just about everyone you come across in daily life doesn't.

there is a difference between loving your country, and supporting it ignorantly. can you have an effective sports team when none of the players give a damn about it? in the same way, a nation needs passionate citizens. passionate, educated, and armed.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
there is a difference between loving your country, and supporting it ignorantly. can you have an effective sports team when none of the players give a damn about it? in the same way, a nation needs passionate citizens. passionate, educated, and armed.

But you have the choice to join a team, therefore you can feel proud, when you win, since you've have helped.
There is no choice in being born though.

I think loving your country is pretty ignorant, it get's in the way from really advancing.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
there is a difference between loving your country, and supporting it ignorantly. can you have an effective sports team when none of the players give a damn about it? in the same way, a nation needs passionate citizens. passionate, educated, and armed.

But you have the choice to join a team, therefore you can feel proud, when you win, since you've have helped.
There is no choice in being born though.

I think loving your country is pretty ignorant, it get's in the way from really advancing.

edit on 9-9-2011 by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien because: (no reason given)

I don't think loving one's country is ignorant. I think loving one's country, without having questioned anything, or analyzed the good and the bad, is ignorant. Same as religion. Being religious isn't ignorant. But being religious, without having questioned your faith, why you believe, and analyzing the religion, is.

Originally posted by D4Saken

Originally posted by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien

I think loving your country is pretty ignorant, it get's in the way from really advancing.

I can't decide..

Your:

A. Trolling
B. Have a low IQ
C. Accusing all patriots of having a low IQ
D. All of the above

I think your a D_ _ _ _ _ _ can anyone finish?

No im not accusing patriots of having a low i.q.

I'm just saying why are patriots so stupid?
Why love something you really have no control over?
Ie, how these idiots join the army, because they want to "protect merica from the terrorists".

You love a country because your just born there?
You boast about its accomplishments, you have never helped in, to do that, it makes no sense.

I can use your post as evidence for this too, you just insulted me because i was criticizing patriots.
Are you angered by what im saying.

Hey man, I know what you are talking about. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to take the low IQ part out of the title so people don't take it wrong. It's your thread.

Originally posted by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien

Originally posted by D4Saken

Originally posted by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien

I think loving your country is pretty ignorant, it get's in the way from really advancing.

I can't decide..

Your:

A. Trolling
B. Have a low IQ
C. Accusing all patriots of having a low IQ
D. All of the above

I think your a D_ _ _ _ _ _ can anyone finish?

No im not accusing patriots of having a low i.q.

I'm just saying why are patriots so stupid?
Why love something you really have no control over?
Ie, how these idiots join the army, because they want to "protect merica from the terrorists".

You love a country because your just born there?
You boast about its accomplishments, you have never helped in, to do that, it makes no sense.

edit on 9-9-2011 by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien because: (no reason given)

So going by your logic, and what you've said so far in this thread, the man in your avatar is an idiot.

Originally posted by MysticPearl

Originally posted by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
there is a difference between loving your country, and supporting it ignorantly. can you have an effective sports team when none of the players give a damn about it? in the same way, a nation needs passionate citizens. passionate, educated, and armed.

But you have the choice to join a team, therefore you can feel proud, when you win, since you've have helped.
There is no choice in being born though.

I think loving your country is pretty ignorant, it get's in the way from really advancing.

edit on 9-9-2011 by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien because: (no reason given)

I don't think loving one's country is ignorant. I think loving one's country, without having questioned anything, or analyzed the good and the bad, is ignorant. Same as religion. Being religious isn't ignorant. But being religious, without having questioned your faith, why you believe, and analyzing the religion, is.

The way i see it is that people won't help someone else in need, before someone from "their" country or someone who their country is "allied" with, they overlook human life, based on, what country someone is from, or their countries relations.
They can't really see past their own feet.

They love their country, and would dis consider something their country won't do, they'd be blind to someone elses need, i think thats being selfish and inconsiderate.

I can use religion for this too, christianity, and christians (patriots to christianity), would give to the needy...but only if they convert to christianity.
They wouldn't help a muslim or a hindu.
It's the same think with countries, they love their religion, just like how people love their countries.

History is the most important subject in any society it establishes authority and mindset for the rest of persons life, by shaping the way a human being interpret and understand a societies structure; they’re position within it plus the position of groups and sub-groups as well as the reinforcing bias towards other individuals or groups/sub-groups, both outside and inside the social network making up they’re world.

History is always best comprehended from present to past with every historical event having a reason(s) behind its outcome.
When you start school, the story of history starts at the beginning, like any piece fiction of literature does, the impressionable young minds are told about ideas and theories of what may have happened long long ago despite being far removed from the present world because the closer to the present one is the more in-depth and credible the facts become making the ability to comprehend and question the story being told easier and the ability to shadow the true harder.
In school this is effectively is makes history just background noise since the information they are basically being told is the most boring and albeit (to a child's mind at least) irrelevant story to them except for the fact they have to pass a test on the subject like the Renaissance which to a both the kid whose being Punked at lunch and the one Punking him have in common is that they don't care about what happened 500 year ago compared to what they will do when the lunch bell rings

In public K-12 education you are trained to write about you're point by finding all the facts that support it and ignoring those that don't.This effectively limits how most choose to perceive reality not just in the classroom, but also on social structure in peer groupings structure and sub-structure, which over those 13 year shape who people become how they adapt and change,
This in mind looking back i can best equate as a semi-prison or quasi-prison like atmosphere. Especially in grade schools that force children to be together in small room packed with other kids doing things boring repetitive tasks that they may or may not understand serving to frustrate those who fall behind as teachers hastily move on without a few kids being ready (usually one less Intelligent future HS Line Backer) with miss placed aggression that gets released onto others at recess, lunch and sometimes after-school, which similar to a prison yard where there is limited or are otherwise unsupervised interaction where unlike the classroom intelligence is not rewarded only strength (both physical and more importantly inner strength) is. Allowing for children to be animalistic but also extremely manipulative in the ways they find to dominate and belittle others (that often are smarter then those making fun but fail to protect themselves by trying to use reason and logic against someone who may not know their timetables but understands how to make someone feel insecure by making other laugh at them) leading children as they mature into teens to find safety in a group that both provides to protect from predatory behavior and that allowed them to feel safe to share things and feeling about themselves that they often hide out of fear of ridicule.

That unfortunately for society or at least everyone not at the top of it helps reenforce willful blindness and the basic ideas of what authority is on young impressionable minds, which in a schools social structuring, the supreme authority the faculty have the most power but also the least amount of influence in comparison to peer groups that more effectively force people to fall in line and choose their path of willful blindness to achieve acceptance. Further defining established hierarchy and the view of ones place within it much in the same way society is structured and how groups function with some actively trying to gain a position higher in the groups anyway possible because if they don't someone else will move ahead.

www.zcommunications.org...

Originally posted by greenWeenie
Hey man, I know what you are talking about. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to take the low IQ part out of the title so people don't take it wrong. It's your thread.

edit on 9-9-2011 by greenWeenie because: (no reason given)

Sure man .
And true, good video, i watched carlins piece before i made this thread, i've watched it so many times, and it's so true.
He's a great comedian, sad to see him gone.



National pride?...or national stupidity?
God bless america!....wait but doesn't he love everyone equal?

Originally posted by IblisLucifer
History is the most important subject in any society it establishes authority and mindset for the rest of persons life, by shaping the way a human being interpret and understand a societies structure; they’re position within it plus the position of groups and sub-groups as well as the reinforcing bias towards other individuals or groups/sub-groups, both outside and inside the social network making up they’re world.

History is always best comprehended from present to past with every historical event having a reason(s) behind its outcome.
When you start school, the story of history starts at the beginning, like any piece fiction of literature does, the impressionable young minds are told about ideas and theories of what may have happened long long ago despite being far removed from the present world because the closer to the present one is the more in-depth and credible the facts become making the ability to comprehend and question the story being told easier and the ability to shadow the true harder.
In school this is effectively is makes history just background noise since the information they are basically being told is the most boring and albeit (to a child's mind at least) irrelevant story to them except for the fact they have to pass a test on the subject like the Renaissance which to a both the kid whose being Punked at lunch and the one Punking him have in common is that they don't care about what happened 500 year ago compared to what they will do when the lunch bell rings

In public K-12 education you are trained to write about you're point by finding all the facts that support it and ignoring those that don't.This effectively limits how most choose to perceive reality not just in the classroom, but also on social structure in peer groupings structure and sub-structure, which over those 13 year shape who people become how they adapt and change,
This in mind looking back i can best equate as a semi-prison or quasi-prison like atmosphere. Especially in grade schools that force children to be together in small room packed with other kids doing things boring repetitive tasks that they may or may not understand serving to frustrate those who fall behind as teachers hastily move on without a few kids being ready (usually one less Intelligent future HS Line Backer) with miss placed aggression that gets released onto others at recess, lunch and sometimes after-school, which similar to a prison yard where there is limited or are otherwise unsupervised interaction where unlike the classroom intelligence is not rewarded only strength (both physical and more importantly inner strength) is. Allowing for children to be animalistic but also extremely manipulative in the ways they find to dominate and belittle others (that often are smarter then those making fun but fail to protect themselves by trying to use reason and logic against someone who may not know their timetables but understands how to make someone feel insecure by making other laugh at them) leading children as they mature into teens to find safety in a group that both provides to protect from predatory behavior and that allowed them to feel safe to share things and feeling about themselves that they often hide out of fear of ridicule.

That unfortunately for society or at least everyone not at the top of it helps reenforce willful blindness and the basic ideas of what authority is on young impressionable minds, which in a schools social structuring, the supreme authority the faculty have the most power but also the least amount of influence in comparison to peer groups that more effectively force people to fall in line and choose their path of willful blindness to achieve acceptance. Further defining established hierarchy and the view of ones place within it much in the same way society is structured and how groups function with some actively trying to gain a position higher in the groups anyway possible because if they don't someone else will move ahead.

www.zcommunications.org...

Ha good one, why we ignore the obvious, aint that the truth.
Just read Marg's full article.

I get so pissed when i see people say or wear these t shirts with "proud to irish, british or american etc", those things are NOT skills, they are #ing genetic accidents.
Hey guys guess what, i have brown eyes, im proud! Im going to kill all people with other eyes colors now!!!
Like carlin says, i really don't see this ethnic pride, it's vanity, it's delusional thinking.

Everyone is biased in favor of themselves, and it's basically because we're trained in school to think that way right.
And no one can really break free from this, due to basically we do what our peers do.

reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien


It does seem that way. I’ve been observing a similar trend in Aus where the young folk wear patriotism like a badge. They justify all sorts of unsavoury behaviour in the name of the flag and hide behind it when it suits them. It seems no co-incidence that these people seem to be the most bigoted and racist individuals I’ve come across and whilst I am also patriotic, it embarrasses me to see this behaviour.

This is probably a strange way of putting it but I see that the way ‘patriotism’ attracts certain elements of the community is similar to the way charismatic people attract followers. Whether these followers have lower IQs remains to be seen, but it would seem that their shortcomings are masked by the masses and they feel safety in numbers.

reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien


I think you might be confusing patriotism with pride.

Take your home for example. Even as a child, I am sure you took pride in your surroundings, because that is what your parents taught you to do.

If you don't take pride in your home, you could end up living in the dumpiest house on the block.

Pride, or patriotism, as you seem to be calling it, when you happen to fall into it, is learned when you are not the original source of it.

Originally posted by 17sok
reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien

 

It does seem that way. I’ve been observing a similar trend in Aus where the young folk wear patriotism like a badge. They justify all sorts of unsavoury behaviour in the name of the flag and hide behind it when it suits them. It seems no co-incidence that these people seem to be the most bigoted and racist individuals I’ve come across and whilst I am also patriotic, it embarrasses me to see this behaviour.

This is probably a strange way of putting it but I see that the way ‘patriotism’ attracts certain elements of the community is similar to the way charismatic people attract followers. Whether these followers have lower IQs remains to be seen, but it would seem that their shortcomings are masked by the masses and they feel safety in numbers.

Good way of putting it and so true.
People find this safety in a large group of like minded thinkers for protection, so if someone was to say challenge their belief ie, tell em the truth that patriotism is bull#, their false thinking would be re-assured by many "like minded" people, assuring them it's ok, and even the right thing.

They would justify what they do, in the name of their country, guess it's what you make of it i suppose.
Guess if they're intellectually limited, they could feel "proudn" in being australian, or w/e else they're from, instead of trying to better themselves through education.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien

 

I think you might be confusing patriotism with pride.

Take your home for example. Even as a child, I am sure you took pride in your surroundings, because that is what your parents taught you to do.

If you don't take pride in your home, you could end up living in the dumpiest house on the block.

Pride, or patriotism, as you seem to be calling it, when you happen to fall into it, is learned when you are not the original source of it.

Patriotism and pride are basically the same thing.

As for being proud of your place of living, well that i can see, you do put in the effort, pay the bills, struggle to keep everything up to date, you've put in the effort, you should be proud.

But being proud in your house, has never lead to wars.
Country A, fights country B...why?
Because they're 2 different pieces of rock, with 2 different idiots as president/leaders.
If they united?........there would be nothing to fight over.

Being proud in college, and academics is fine, it's good to be proud because you've achieved something someone else in your class hasn't, because you've studied longer and harder for it then them.
You have control over that, i had a choice in going to college, i chose that, i had no choice at all being born where i was, hell if i had a choice i'd love to have been born on Mars,whats the point in being proud because you were born on a piece of rock, that you had no control over or decision in?

Pride in something you didn't even do?
It's made up, it's make believe.

reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien


Hmmm, well, I did have a war with a neighbor over a fence that extended onto my property for a number of years, although it didn't lead to any deaths.

As for contributing nothing, I hate to beg to differ with you. I pay taxes. I pay my share, and even if this country is on a downswing, I still take pride in it. I can't think of anywhere else in the world I'd rather live.

So, let me as this, since I might have missed where you hail from, you take no pride in your country?