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Originally posted by seachange
I think that food, clothing, and shelter result in happiness. Try getting rid of all your food, clothing, and shelter and then decide whether you are more happy or less happy. Money is simply a convenient way of trading one item of food, clothing, shelter for another more valued item. Therefore, I question you as to why its so awful to be able to exchange one thing for another using a convenient system of exchange. Do you believe that trading should be inconvenient and difficult?
You also seem to value self-sufficiency.
depending on each other for different things seems to have a better result, because some of us are better at certain things than others. We all live in a reality of dependency where people who are totally self-sufficient often have zero free-time. Is being a slave to a corporation for 8 hours a day worse than being a slave to tending to your own basic needs for 16 hours a day? If you've managed to be self-sufficient with loads of free-time, then by all means post the Youtube video and I'll consider doing what you're doing.
The world produces enough food to feed everyone. World agriculture produces 17 percent more calories per person today than it did 30 years ago, despite a 70 percent population increase. This is enough to provide everyone in the world with at least 2,720 kilocalories (kcal) per person per day (FAO 2002, p.9). The principal problem is that many people in the world do not have sufficient land to grow, or income to purchase, enough food.
Originally posted by ANOK
Money is not the problem, private ownership of the mean of production is, and under that system money is used to control and manipulate the population. Under a system that does not keep resources artificially scarce money could not be used that way.
If we were producing, as an industrialized society, for the world needs, rather than producing crap just to make money, we would have far more free time than we do now. We already have the resources to feed the world over but we don't, because it would upset the capitalist economy and not make anyone rich. Feed the poor, eat the rich!
The world produces enough food to feed everyone. World agriculture produces 17 percent more calories per person today than it did 30 years ago, despite a 70 percent population increase. This is enough to provide everyone in the world with at least 2,720 kilocalories (kcal) per person per day (FAO 2002, p.9). The principal problem is that many people in the world do not have sufficient land to grow, or income to purchase, enough food.
The real problem is Capitalism
Originally posted by ANOK
Thing is corporatism is a result of capitalism. It is just another way for capitalists to protect their interests.
Originally posted by brokedown
It seems that we are starting to confuse Capitalism with Corporatism, which really is Fascism.
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
Any country that allows the Corporation to direct and influence its policies is Fascist. This is exactly where we find the United States today. I could site examples ad-nausea, but the Gulf / BP oil disaster is a gleaming proof to the point.
Capitalism is in no way, shape, or form Corporatism. In true Capitalist culture the Corporation is rarely found, and is only used for the benefit of the entire population, as it was during the first hundred years or so of the United States.
Originally posted by ANOK
It is capitalism that dictates government policy.
Capitalism keeps resources artificially scarce, by underproduction, in order to keep prices high. It keep us competing for with each other for what we need, including 'jobs'.
Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by Tanulis
Those thoughts echo my own so closely that I thought maybe I drank too much and created another profile last night. Well said. All of it.
Of course, many on here will fight for the distinction between capitalism and corporatism. There is truth in that but the only way to prevent capitalism from becoming corporatism is to put in place strict regulation on corporate growth... but then you cease to be capitalist. Basically, there is no way to control true capitalism without killing it.
Originally posted by seachange
Originally posted by Tanulis
And then we hear about all the terrible things these huge mega-corporations do to take more and more money. For example:
- Suppressing alternative energies Link
Thats really is just scratching the surface, as you all well know. And its obviously not just the corporations committing all the atrocities here. They have so much money that they have the government by the balls, and can force any legislation through and buy any politician they want, and that politician becomes a talking head for that company, rather than the people.
I believe you do not understand either capitalism or fascism.
Once the corporation, a corrupt fascist entity to begin with, successfully convinces the population to embrace authoritarianism they now use their wealth to write the laws that keep the smaller businesses out. There is no better example than the FDA. The FDA has all but destroyed medicine. If you think you can as a small independent company, develop a medicine that helps people, you're wrong and you will be destroyed because the FDA will destroy you. This isn't a joke. People who do this go to *prison* with a felony record. Try it and see what happens. Thats what the FDA is about. They are about large companies using the anti-capitalist principles of authoritarian economics destroying you and your neighbours if you dare compete with the big players.
Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by Tanulis
The real problem is Capitalism
Nice rant but... really, it sounds like the same logic that blames guns for violence and not those pulling the trigger.
Capitalism is simply a tool and like a gun, can be abused to do harm to innocent people. The question is whether we can identify the source of the problem or simply hit the Easy button and blame the object or concept.
Violent tendencies will survive even if the gun is eradicated. Greed will survive even if Capitalism disappears.
The problem is the human condition, not the machine.
Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by Tanulis
If your goal is to make some people very rich - then Capitalism is your strategy.
If your goal is to make everyone pretty well off with a good quality of life off then you might modify Capitalism to better reach those goals.
Even the "Best Companies" selling excellent products eventually find a way to make those products using less labor and cheaper material and get more for it.
Everyone uses PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE as a part of their manufacturing credo and we accept that. That is the way it is...make it to break so we have to buy another one.
Originally posted by Dragoon01
reply to post by newcovenant
Your entire post can be sumed up thusly
"I am too stupid to exist in a free world and I need mommy and daddy to protect me from evil greedy businessmen"
There is so much stupid in this thread I really hesitated to comment on it but I wanted to complement THE OLD AMERICAN on his absolute touchdown of a post!
Originally posted by seachange
Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by Tanulis
If your goal is to make some people very rich - then Capitalism is your strategy.
If your goal is to make everyone pretty well off with a good quality of life off then you might modify Capitalism to better reach those goals.
If you were to actually do actually do the research, you'd find that the most capitalist countries (actually the least anti-capitalist countries because all countries except Hong Kong are by and large anti-capitalist) have the lowest amounts of poverty-related problems such as malnutrition and infant mortality.
Capitalism helps the poor the most for the simple reason that they need money the most. As for the rich, they are simply more rich under capitalism.
Even the "Best Companies" selling excellent products eventually find a way to make those products using less labor and cheaper material and get more for it.
Everyone uses PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE as a part of their manufacturing credo and we accept that. That is the way it is...make it to break so we have to buy another one.
And government does nothing to solve that problem. What solves the problem is shopping at good companies, forming consumer groups, and participating in ethical shopping practices designed to give business to good companies that for example treat the environment with respect.edit on 9-9-2011 by seachange because: (no reason given)
That mom and pop Chinese restaurant down the street from your house is practicing capitalism, though not in its pure state, as our economic system has moved toward a socialist (government regulated) system. Is the owner of that restaurant greedy? Yes, he is.
Originally posted by filosophia
Corporatism is the problem, not capitalism. Capitalism allows for everyone to start a business, whereas corporatism has laws in place that large corporations can get around by paying some fines or hiring lawyers, but small business owners and small farmers get squashed by the enormous fines and legal red tape. In a true system of capitalism the government isn't butting in and telling people not to create business (while at the same time pretending to be passing "jobs" bills).