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The real problem is Capitalism

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posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 01:56 PM
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Let me first start by saying that I am a Libertarian/Anarcho-Primitivist. The Libertarian side of me, before this realization, wanted very small government:

1. Protecting the borders/Isolationism/No bases on foreign soil
2. Conservation
3. Exploration (Space, Marine, etc)
4. Archiving national history (art, historical documents)
5. Capitalism flourishing with little to no regulation.

The Anarcho-Primitivist side of me wants the balance of nature restored, and a return to our ancestors way of life. I try to live my own life in this way, as well as my wife. I have a blacksmith forge where I make my own weapons and tools, we grow our own food, not enough for food independence but we're getting there slowly (We've only bought this house in the woods a little over a year ago) I suppose if you were to box me into some label, which would be regurgitated by fox news and msnbc, I'm both extreme right wing and left wing. I simply want to be left alone. Being an openly practicing Wiccan for 12 years doesnt help politically either, because the right wing thinks I'm Satan's right hand man and a scourge on the planet. The left wing doesnt like me because I'm a libertarian ''tea party fascist'', which makes me think WTF?

And then we hear about all the terrible things these huge mega-corporations do to take more and more money. For example:

- Suppressing alternative energies Link
- Cutting corners in food production Link
- Rampant prescribing of mind altering drugs on children and adults Link
- Hospital industry attempting to control how women give birth Link
- Banks rigging the financial/housing/college industry (no link because I couldn't find just ONE to support this. I consider this one ''common knowledge''

Thats really is just scratching the surface, as you all well know. And its obviously not just the corporations committing all the atrocities here. They have so much money that they have the government by the balls, and can force any legislation through and buy any politician they want, and that politician becomes a talking head for that company, rather than the people.

Among all this smoke, confusion and horrifying stories that are reported, TPTB continue to state that you're still ''Free'' to choose alternatives for yourself, while their sleight of hand is making everything illegal. I've come to the realization that although the corporations and the government ARE a serious existential problem, the problem CANT be solved by destroying or reforming them.

The real problem is Capitalism. Its GREED at an astronomical, almost unperceived level. I used to admire men and women who started from nothing and created something for themselves and then created wealth and success... until you see those same people fall to corruption when they get so much power that they lose sight of the value of life and true happiness.

The answer to all this is even scarier than the problems themselves... because I cant think of one. What can possibly be done to fix this terrible system we have in place, while still promoting TRUE FREEDOM, love for one another, and love for this beautiful home we all live on together? Does capitalism really mean freedom? Am I completely off-base in my conclusions? I'd love some feedback. I hope my essay was not too scattered, for there is simply too much information to sift through, and it makes cataloging and explaining everything in one post damn near impossible.

Thanks all!

-Tan
edit on 8-9-2011 by Tanulis because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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Good essay .


Greed is one of the deadly sins and it seems , the general greed of humanity is the norm .

However this doesn't have to be the case . It ( Greed ) all depends on education , justice , compassion for all humans .

A new socio-economic system is needed for the Digital age .

One where a given nominal human hour is valued at equality .

I have been working on it for some years and I am trying to underwrite this new socio-economic system .

I called it Digitism .

User of this system would be called a Digitist .

Digitocracy as oppose to Democracy and Digitalism as oppose to Capitalism .


In this new socio-economic system , the desktop technologies would play a crucial role .



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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I agree.

It is the private ownership of the means of production, capitalism, that is the problem.

It is capitalism that dictates government policy.

Capitalism keeps resources artificially scarce, by underproduction, in order to keep prices high. It keep us competing for with each other for what we need, including 'jobs'.

If the people had access to the means of production, we wouldn't need to be subservient to capitalist control, we wouldn't need 'jobs'. We could produce what we need, not for the minority 'capitalist class' greed. Unfortunately that idea has been demonized by the capitalists state, for obvious reasons.

What I'm talking about is socialism, the workers ownership of the means of production. An economic system that requires no state, no government, no hierarchical system of one class ruling over another due to simple 'ownership'. BTW I consider myself Libertarian Socialist (anarcho-socialist).

Nothing will ever change though until people realise capitalism is not freedom, and socialism is not the demon we have bee told. Socialism was always the system of the people...


As Socialism in general, Anarchism was born among the people; and it will continue to be full of life and creative power only as long as it remains a thing of the people.


From the book 'Modern Science and Anarchism' p.5, Peter Kropotkin, 1908


Is it necessary to repeat here the irrefutable arguments of Socialism which no bourgeois
economist has yet succeeded in disproving? What is property, what is capital in their present form?
For the capitalist and the property owner they mean the power and the right, guaranteed by the
State, to live without working. And since neither property nor capital produces anything when not
fertilized by labor - that means the power and the right to live by exploiting the work of someone
else, the right to exploit the work of those who possess neither property nor capital and who thus are
forced to sell their productive power to the lucky owners of both.


From 'The Capitalist System' p.1, Michael Bakunin 1814-1876, Anarcho-Collectivist.


Convinced that freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice and that Socialism without
freedom is slavery and brutality.
The League [for Peace and Freedom] loudly proclaims the necessity of a radical social and
economic reconstruction, having for its aim the emancipation of people's labor from the yoke of
capital and property owners, a reconstruction based upon strict justice - neither juridical nor
theological nor metaphysical justice, but simply human justice - upon positive science and upon the
widest freedom.


From 'Stateless Socialism: Anarchism', Mikhail Bakunin 1814-1876, Anarcho-Collectivist.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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Capitalism is not the problem it is phony capitalism where legislator is used to produce desirable business environments in which only the strong (friends of the powers that be, GE) survive..

If you had a lot of choices in one particular sector of the economy...that choice is what makes business innovators come to life to try and keep you and attract you to that product to purchase. When you have lack of choice and instead monopolies or duopolies thats when capitalism is no longer free market capitalism but something else.

Solution? We need the return of mom and pop stores... Thats what will keep prices down. That and end the ability for speculators to speculate the way they do about all of our commodities. More speculation contracts exist on the market than there are real ones...

I love capitalism I hate nepotism. Which is what we have now.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by Old77
Capitalism is not the problem it is phony capitalism where legislator is used to produce desirable business environments in which only the strong (friends of the powers that be, GE) survive..


There is no phoney capitalism.

Anything that results from the 'private ownership of the means of production' is a fault of capitalism, because that is what it is.

All our economic problems stem from that private ownership, ultimately.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 02:29 PM
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Good Post.

I am not a fan the current state of capitalism either.

As ANOK posted above



And since neither property nor capital produces anything when not fertilized by labor - that means the power and the right to live by exploiting the work of someone else, the right to exploit the work of those who possess neither property nor capital and who thus are forced to sell their productive power to the lucky owners of both.


That says a lot..... and is proven when you take a look at the owners and beneficiaries of these Mega Corporations.

Short of an armed revolution where we storm their Headquarters ..... I'm not sure how to combat the mega corps.

One non-violent way I can think of is: To somehow, get the legislators to create laws that FORCE mega corps to pay money out in some way back to the "people."

......of course what lawyers are going to be lobbied for that?



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by Tanulis
 


Good post OP, I am in agreement.

The monetary system IS the slavery system. If you take away the monetary system, then everyone becomes equal, no class system, no status system.

Don't think we will see the end of it in my lifetime, but it's a dream!


st.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Tanulis
And then we hear about all the terrible things these huge mega-corporations do to take more and more money. For example:
- Suppressing alternative energies Link

Thats really is just scratching the surface, as you all well know. And its obviously not just the corporations committing all the atrocities here. They have so much money that they have the government by the balls, and can force any legislation through and buy any politician they want, and that politician becomes a talking head for that company, rather than the people.


I believe you do not understand either capitalism or fascism. The corporate system of governance you describe is fascism, not capitalism. Fascism is corporate control over a body of people. Capitalism is mostly about private property ownership.

How do you suppose mega-corporations are formed? First of all, the government puts in an anti-capitalist framework of fascism by allowing corporations to exist in the first place. Corporations are government created system designed to grant powers to corporations that nobody else gets. That is not capitalism. That is fascism. Please distinguish the difference in the future!

So, once corporations are formed, how and why do they get their corrupt tentacles in government? The first thing they do is convince people that providing a good civil court system could never right any wrongs. Rather, you need a set of criminal law with a big strong police force to right wrongs. In other words, rather than using concepts of laissez-faire capitalism, you use concepts of authoritarianism. In other words, you use pretty much the opposite of capitalism. It really makes no sense that you are calling authoritarianism "capitalism" when its basically the opposite of capitalism. The difference is black and white.

Once the corporation, a corrupt fascist entity to begin with, successfully convinces the population to embrace authoritarianism they now use their wealth to write the laws that keep the smaller businesses out. There is no better example than the FDA. The FDA has all but destroyed medicine. If you think you can as a small independent company, develop a medicine that helps people, you're wrong and you will be destroyed because the FDA will destroy you. This isn't a joke. People who do this go to *prison* with a felony record. Try it and see what happens. Thats what the FDA is about. They are about large companies using the anti-capitalist principles of authoritarian economics destroying you and your neighbours if you dare compete with the big players.

Whats going on today is such amazing example of mass stupidity that it has shattered my faith in democracy. Whats going on today is that capitalism has been all but destroyed while fascism and authoritarianism have successfully conquered the United States. And the result? Catastrophic failure of fascism and authoritarianism to produce the results people such as yourself expect of it. And worst of all, fascism and authoritarianism are exactly what you want more of to reverse all of what has happened! So not only is it a catastrophic failure but you propose to make it twice as bad. The total polar opposite is what is produced... an environment getting trashed left and right while mega-corporations virtually take over everything.

Business regulations are *always* going to destroy small business and overall consumer satisfaction, because the only reason a regulation exists is when a business owner, who's goal it is to keep their customers happy, disagrees with the government, who's goal it is to keep their customers UNHAPPY so they get more money for their silly nonsense.

Look, we tried your ideas you're talking about embracing over the last few decades already. And look what you get. The failure of fascism and the death of capitalism. Capitalism is dead. We have fascism. If you don't believe me look up Fascism on Wikipedia.

The very best way to help the environment is first to lead by example, and secondly to push for civil lawsuits when damage is done, and finally but most importantly promote ethical shopping practices. If you are going to sit there and wait around for the government to solve environmental problems you will be waiting FOREVER. Your idea that the government is going to help you out is BAD and I suggest you change it IMMEDIATELY. I very strongly suggest you should form a consumer group designed to shop at places that do ethical things with the environment. That will do something for sure. Whereas, writing to your congressman to get an automated form letter back will do NOTHING. Think about it.
edit on 8-9-2011 by seachange because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 02:48 PM
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It seems that we are starting to confuse Capitalism with Corporatism, which really is Fascism.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Any country that allows the Corporation to direct and influence its policies is Fascist. This is exactly where we find the United States today. I could site examples ad-nausea, but the Gulf / BP oil disaster is a gleaming proof to the point.

Capitalism is in no way, shape, or form Corporatism. In true Capitalist culture the Corporation is rarely found, and is only used for the benefit of the entire population, as it was during the first hundred years or so of the United States.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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I think we can agree that the OP is trying to get the point of "greed" across and whether you like it or not ....Capitalism spawns that greed.

From wikipedia:

There is no consensus on the precise definition of capitalism, nor on how the term should be used as a historical category.[2] There is, however, little controversy that private ownership of the means of production, creation of goods or services for profit in a market, and prices and wages are elements of capitalism.



...So yes in a certain context ...the OP can say Capitalism.....

....and I will also agree that there is some Fascism in there too



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 03:01 PM
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Get rid of money, simple, it'll take a while but a goods trading economy i think is the way to go.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 03:04 PM
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Capitalism isn't the problem. Having a Corporate State (Fascism) is. The real problem is that lobbying is allowed, which squeezes out ANY and ALL meaning that a voter has. The money rules, because we have allowed it to. Lobbying, be it the ACLU, La Raza, or the NRA leads to Fascism. The 17th Amendment killed one of the strongest defenses against this. We no longer have State Senators. Instead, we have 535 "Representatives", all answering to the highest bidders.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by dplum517
I think we can agree that the OP is trying to get the point of "greed" across and whether you like it or not ....Capitalism spawns that greed.


Greed is excessive desire for wealth. Capitalism enables greedy people to get things. Socialism also enables greedy people to get things. Russia proved that greedy people get even more things under their system.

While capitalism enables more greedy people to get more money, its also enables generous people to get more money. So no, capitalism is not a system of greed by any stretch of the imagination.

I could argue however that socialism is a system of greed. The idea of socialism is that you don't like how other people spend their money and you'd rather have it so you could spend it how YOU see fit. Therefore, the concept of socialism is a greedy one. You're telling people you want control over their money. Socialism is a system of greed by which you attempt to get money from others and have your way with it. That is not particularly admirable and I consider it greedy. Capitalism is a system of generosity in that it generously allows people to keep the fruits of their labor, for the purpose of the benefit of society. It creates a stable and peaceful environment.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 03:13 PM
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In a capitalist country you always get the best government money can buy.

Voting The TPM, GOP, Democrats, Libertarians, or the Do Nothing Party will in no way change the status quo.

It's a rough game when you don't know the rules or what the stakes are. Before you set down to play; look around the table a see if you can tell who the "chump" is....If you can't....it's you!
edit on 8-9-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by Tanulis
 


Those thoughts echo my own so closely that I thought maybe I drank too much and created another profile last night. Well said. All of it.

Of course, many on here will fight for the distinction between capitalism and corporatism. There is truth in that but the only way to prevent capitalism from becoming corporatism is to put in place strict regulation on corporate growth... but then you cease to be capitalist. Basically, there is no way to control true capitalism without killing it.

The answer is not capitalism. The answer is not socialism. The answer is some new ideology that the world will soon discover. We are on the cusp of a fully ethical society that can communicate with one another globally. People (by people, I mean PEOPLE) will shape the world collectively as we never have before. Chin up, things are gonna get cool soon.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by brokedown
It seems that we are starting to confuse Capitalism with Corporatism, which really is Fascism.


Thing is corporatism is a result of capitalism. It is just another way for capitalists to protect their interests.

As long as the means of production are kept out of the hands of the people by a minority controlling class, whatever we call it, then we are nothing but slaves to that minority class, who will manipulate world affairs to there own benefit.

As the socialists and anarchists have said all along, private property is the root of our problems. The right we give to individuals to exclusively own, and control, the machinery we need for our survival. Mostly land, when common land law was mostly taken away.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa
In a capitalist country you always get the best government money can buy.

Voting The TPM, GOP, Democrats, Libertarians, or the Do Nothing Party will in no way change the status quo.

It's a rough game when you don't know the rules or what the stakes are.


What kind of government could one possibly buy in a capitalist country? Think the FDA is a component of capitalism? Think the Federal Reserve is a component of capitalism? The only universally agreed upon definition of capitalism is that it focuses on private ownership of property. The FDA is an organisation designed to take ownership of drug companies away from the drug companies. The Federal Reserve is an organisation designed to take ownership of banks away from private companies and into the power of the government.

You seem to have a questionable use of the word capitalism. If the USA is a capitalist country, then what is a fascist country? Your belief system makes zero sense to me but you're welcome to explain it.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by BarmyBilly
Get rid of money, simple, it'll take a while but a goods trading economy i think is the way to go.


That will never happen while we have a capitalist economy.

Money is just another tool of control used by the capitalists system, where central banking system controls, and manipulates, the flow of money.

We are conditioned from birth to believe that 'ownership' is the only way to happiness. To own you have to have money. To have money you need a 'job'. You having a 'job', as apposed to being self sufficient, makes someone else very wealthy. What is socially acceptable is controlled through this system, the whole lot, schools, banks, government etc., all set up to control and manipulate the way society thinks and acts. Go to school, get a 'job', get married, don't think for yourself, die....

We give up real freedom, life, for flashy gadgets to impress the neighbours.


edit on 9/8/2011 by ANOK because: typo



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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I tend to think that the absence of a free market, along with corruption and collusion between government and corporations as outlined by a few posters above is at the root of the problem. (Along with the legal obligation of the entity called "corporation" to always increase profits for its shareholders.)

However, I totally disagree with the concept of private ownership of primary natural resources, and believe that any profits from these should go to benefit the people inhabiting the land from which they came. (Which can lead to a whole other discussion about the validity of nations, states, borders etc... but that is for another thread.)

Once these resources are transformed, however, I say let a free market decide! That does not mean eliminate regulations, only ensure that no particular party is favored over another through government policy.

*eg. Need a tree? Buy it from "the people". Need a chair? Buy it from the person who made it from the tree they bought from "the people".

the Billmeister



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
Money is just another tool of control used by the capitalists system, where central banking system controls, and manipulates, the flow of money.

We are conditioned from birth to believe that 'ownership' is the only way to happiness. To own you have to have money. To have money you need a 'job'. You having a 'job', as apposed to being self sufficient, makes someone else very wealthy.


I think that food, clothing, and shelter result in happiness. Try getting rid of all your food, clothing, and shelter and then decide whether you are more happy or less happy. Money is simply a convenient way of trading one item of food, clothing, shelter for another more valued item. Therefore, I question you as to why its so awful to be able to exchange one thing for another using a convenient system of exchange. Do you believe that trading should be inconvenient and difficult?

You also seem to value self-sufficiency. While I value that too, depending on each other for different things seems to have a better result, because some of us are better at certain things than others. We all live in a reality of dependency where people who are totally self-sufficient often have zero free-time. Is being a slave to a corporation for 8 hours a day worse than being a slave to tending to your own basic needs for 16 hours a day? If you've managed to be self-sufficient with loads of free-time, then by all means post the Youtube video and I'll consider doing what you're doing.




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