Modern sexism and the modern man

I am observing increasingly a rise in sexism lately- against men. Maybe it is because I am a woman and find myself in groups of women often, or on discussion boards which are highly populated by women.... but I hear a lot of anti-masculinity stuff that surprises me.
It surprises me because these same women can be very aggressive against sexism when it comes to women ! I am surprised they do not see the parallel.

I know it is not just my own observation, I talk to men who struggle with this attitude all the time- their woman wants them to be non-aggressive, non-violent, gentle, integration-minded instead of separation-minded, peaceful and non-conflictual.....

But then they are mad when the guy doesn’t stand up and get aggressive in some situations- be forceful in confronting an abusive landlord, or standing up to an abusive boss, getting aggressive with a male friend who talked trash about him or his wife......

There are some men today that have really bought into the new man idea and have worked hard at integrating their inner woman, learning things like passivity, like compassion..... doing the chores once considered « womans work » like staying at home to take care of the children and do housework. They remain sensitive at all times, alert to the womans needs in the most subtle forms, and avoiding conflict at all turns.

I know a few couples like that, and in each case, the woman has ended up having affairs or at some point leaving him. One couple I know were the perfect modern couple- she worked, he stayed at home with the kids. They ate only healthy and organic. They did weeklong hikes in nature coupled with regular periods of fasting. They were in touch with nature, sensitive, intuitive. Then he started suicide attempts. She got sick of it and started having affairs. Then she left him. It seems he was just acting out what he was doing inside- he had been trying to kill off his masculine side all along. It seems inevitable that would also become manifest through the being that is their couple!

Then there is the sad call of the « nice » guys, that ever wonder- why do I never get the girl ? Why do they always just want to be friends and go for the egotistical jerk ??

It is a paradox for the men, who come out the loser either way in relationships.

The sexism is sometimes veiled, or subconscious, as when women condemn « people who are competative » or people who are combative, selfish, aggressive..... of course we all have these traits somewhere in us, but men usually have it more pressing and conscious, whereas in the past, women have projected their anima upon their partner. Well now they have it manifesting through them instead. Which is all well and fine- except I find they are not acknowledging it (so not mastering it). They are being aggressive, combative , selfish, all the while they are voicing condemnation of it !
It is the schism that grabs me, the lack of integrity, that has become prevalent and widely accepted and encouraged.

They don’t want to mommy their men, and but they do want him to protect the family from threat. They don’t want him to stay at home and be lazy, but they do want him to be ever alert to their needs (spoken or not) and focused on them. They don’t want him to be oppositional, but rather constantly search integration, peace..... but they want a guy who will stand up and have some balls.

Perhaps it is just the natural swing of the pendalum- we left a period of sexism towards women, and so now it swings the other way. I find it hard to watch without pointing out what I see.

I don’t know the answer. I myself have percieved a conflict within at times, between being irritated by my husbands aggressive and competative urges, and then noticing I also like that he defends himself and what is his against threat actively. I want him to be sensitive to the needs and feelings of others, but it drives me nuts when he so sensitive I need to repress my own complaints or feelings for fear of traumatizing him. I want him to be compassionate and understanding of others, but it bugs me when he so easily influenced by friendly salespeople or whiny friends asking for help that it turns out they didn’t really need.

In my own self examination, I found that my intellect is attracted to those are similar in mind to myself. But my body seems to be attracted to those that are the opposite of myself. This makes sense, as far as biological reproduction is concerned, of course. But even when it comes to the non-physical parts of relationships, contrast can be complimentary and a source of balance !

So I acknowledge both these feelings and end up usually being able to just let him be as he wills from one moment to the next. If he gets too full of himself and has begun to push his limits into my space, I tell him, and he pulls it back immediately. Recently someone tried to con us, and we caught them, then they caused us to lose the sale of my business and we lost a lot of money. He ended up having a hostile confrontation with the guy that almost went to fists.

I did feel this was a bit over the top, but reminded myself that I like a strong protector soemtimes and this feels right to him. But I made a few jokes and snickers about it as being unecessary. Until I got to hear the men in the village talk about him- he had risen in respect ten fold, as the man in question was much disliked and distrusted, and everyone was afraid him. In mens worlds, they get the need for aggression, violence, and hostility at times. I admit it baffles me in the moment. But socially there is a whole dynamic of masculinity which has hierarchy that opposes the feminine view of all as equal.

This had him on a testosterone rush for days, liek a gorilla that keeps on banging their chest and shaking trees in their surge of force. He started to be a bit of a dick to me and being inconsiderate. I got pissed and let him know. He immediately went back to his more balanced self the next day (and it has remained so ever since).

I don’t know where I am going with this. I guess I am still trying to digest my feelings and thoughts. I don’t understand the recent rise in women wanting a metrosexual or « sensitive guy », but feeling unfulfilled with them too. I understand having a conflict with these two desires inside, but I do not understand going into denial or refusing to acknowledge one of them, so that it ruins relationships subtly and in sneaky ways.

Am I totally off ? Have no others percieved this problem ? I am in France, so perhaps it is a french problem ? I was thinking it is not, as I have communicated and listened to a lot of friends around the world struggling with same. I have watched it happen with my relatives.

reply to post by Bluesma


I know what you mean. Feminism is crap, as it destroys the attraction between the sexes eventually, if it is allowed to prevail. Females are programmed genetically to be attracted to strong independent men, but are being brainwashed from media and their peers into the opposite direction.

I am from sweden a country where this feminism have gone further than anywhere else. The result is not pretty let me tell you. Even the males are not attracted to the women here anymore, many go to other countries like thailand to get a wife, as they are the ideal archetype of what a male wants, an obedient housewife that does the cleaning and cooking and takes care of their husband, while letting the man be a MAN, not a woman, like most swedish females seem to be brainwashed into believing they want. Relationships rarely last more than a year over here anymore, kids are really rare, females are unfaithful and like to jump around with men just like men used to do previously. No man want´s a female such as that. This is a huge problem.

Sometimes i think this is their plan, since this is all pushed out from the media, taking orders from the government. Maybe it is all a kind of artificial depopulation agenda

It's a true observation, I see it alot also.

The thing is, everyone wants everything, and they can't have it.

Reply to post by Bluesma

I can see that you were working through and digesting your feelings while you were making this thread. I will preface everything I say with the fact that I am male and have mostly female friends.

What I have noticed with a lot of people is they dont really know what they want. My females friends seem to want their independence but still want a man to be the stereotypical man that brings home the check and protects the family. They want a man thats commanding in some situations but dont want one that tries to dictate their life. They want a more modern man but only to a point thats comfortable for their definition. Which varies from person to person.

The biggest problem is most people still have an idea of what a man should be and what a woman should be. Personally I try not to expect behaviors based on gender because boxes dont work. However most people try to mold their behavior to fit whatever box to which they belong. The more you fit the more respect you get from those locked boxed thinking. Then you get machismo and all that other bullsnip. This goes for both males and females.

I think what you seem to be trying to describe is called the intergrated male. At least thats what it was called in a psych course I took. Hes supposed to be the perfectly balanced and most psychologically healthy of all men.

As for when your man went off because you caught a con man. Meh anger rules everybody sometimes he just needed a reality check and you gave it to him. We all need one now and again.


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reply to post by Bluesma


Hi Blues,

I have S & F'ed you because I am the mother of a son who has been through untold crap because of a woman.

And as we have progressed through the system I have found many females who are in certain positions of authority, whose power has gone to their heads, and who seem to hate men.

I made a complaint to the police that young men are targeted and have no support, and this policeman agreed with me.

But obviously nothing has happened to correct this.

all i can say is boo frigging hoo
seriously

people are who they are if they want to be influenced by the media into thinking they want someone they really dont then they are fools....

this is all classic mating rituals.....with the world opening up why wouldnt a guy want to go to a country where he knows he can get an obedient wife? and if you cant handle the ladies in your own country what does that show you about yourself?

not like any of this matters you make your own happiness.....if your are prone to letting the other take the lead role and telling you what to do then fine.....but if the other is having affairs it means you werent right for them so move on quit taking it all personal like its a hit on your ego! there is something in this world called humility learn from it

get over yourselves.... you cant control anyone but yourself .....so dont try...and dont hold it against someone cause they grow away from you and do things that you dont like....

and yes i have experienced it two fold........

I don't believe in relationships or marriage. Simply for several reasons including this one. It's just not worth it.

I'm clappy as a ham and i'm single.

reply to post by FurthestStar


Sorry,

Hams are not happy or clappy - they are dead pigs.

Woman..

It sounds like most woman are mistaking men for a well trained pet.

If you want your man to act like a man, treat him like a man, not a pet.

I'm all for equal rights, woman in combat, etc. I still want to be treated like a man.

And to all you men that go along with being treated like pets, grow a pair.

Men and woman would do well to treat each other as different but equal.

Originally posted by catwhoknowsplusone
reply to post by FurthestStar

 

Sorry,

Hams are not happy or clappy - they are dead pigs.

I'm going to assume you're aware that I intentionally rearranged "happy as a clam".

Anyway, sexism is never going to go away. On either end. Point blank. Plain and simple. I've stopped dating and i'm as happy and clappy as a dead pig.

Looks like you've had a breakthrough few women do. You're starting to realize the schizophrenic nature of modern women's expectations of modern men. Whether alone or in an unhappy relationship, so many women pine away hoping to find the man who is the impossible contradiction, something their lying society has told them is possible.

As for me, I'm a guy who is happily alone. Are there still good women out there ... some I guess. I don't hold out hope of finding one for myself.

I guess my first intent was to just pin point- what feels wrong here? What am I picking up that is not harmonic?

-What I percieve is a schism in many women about what they want. They voice one thing, but their bodies express the opposite. A conscious desire, and a subconscious one, that are odds with each other.

In a more general way, it feels like it mirrors what feels disharmonic in some New Age people who get into the "positive" thing as being enlightened, and condemnation of the "negative"- which doesn't feel to be "whole" at all! It is another separation and conflict! We all have positive and negative, Yin and Yang, so rejection of either can't possibly more spiritually evolved? The negative these days seems to be all that is Yang- being self centered, being aggressive, competative, hierarchy /domination/submission mindedness. That is all "ego", a bad thing to be "kept in check"..... by what? What it is then that observes the ego and represses it?

Seems just to be a word used to describe whatever part of our self we wish to repress and condemn. It can be used also to describe the desire to be part of a social herd, and willing to adhere to whatever it stipulates for membership, so it can be used to describe the feminine side too.

The ego organizing itself in terms of what part is desireable and what isn't. Lately the trend is to reject it's masculine part. Like I said, perhaps that is just the swing of the pendelum after centuries of growing masculine traits being valued, we're trying to compensate? By pushing them into the depths and disempowering them?

Then I began to look at my own self and relationship. My husband and I have a good one- we respect each other and are very in love though we've been together for 20 years! Why do we not have this problem? I asked myself.

It semes it is because I have an appreciation for my own masculine side! I think aggressivity has a place in this world! I think competition does too. I think self consciousness isn't "bad". I work with horses, for example, and I'll tell you, if you ever have to deal with a young stallion that has not been taught to respect the space of others, you sure as heck better be okay with pulling out that inner man and laying down the limits with force! The gentle long term process of manipulation is just not appropriate sometimes.

So I guess that is why I can let him be that way when he feels it. He also respects his feminine side, and appreciates it, so can let me express that when I feel it.

I don't know, perhaps there is no ideal man or woman, I am not so much concerned with that. But I suspect that within a couple it might be possible to have both people aid each other to have balance. They can each let each other know when they get to an extreme either way?

I don't know. In a pragmatic way, MY only problem is whether or not I should listen quietly when I see other women being self contradicting this way. I have difficulty doing so. I want to point out that they are doing one thing and saying another..... come to think of it, that really stirs me to speak whenever I see someone doing that concerning any topic!

reply to post by FurthestStar


Us clams have had a bad thing ever since we started.

I proclaim National Clams Day!

But I don't, cos I can't speak.

First off I'd like to start off by saying that your words are truly a breath of fresh air and I am extremely appreciative of you sticking your neck out to stand up for what you believe is right. Secondly I'd like to apologize on behalf of some of the men posting, who have clearly misconstrued your message by viewing it as an opportunity to pound their chest and tell the woman to get back in the kitchen. The reason why men are being treated this way in society is because for every man like me, who genuinley respects women for their unique differences and abilities, there are still millions of men who represent nothing more than a primitive, chauvinistic ideaology in relation to women, hence why we are all labled as such. With that being said, I am a 6'0, 265 pound collegiate athlete, and probably one of the physically strongest collegiate football players in the game today. Over the past several years, I began training in mixed martial arts, as a way to increase my mental and physical toughness, not only using it for its cross training advantages, but also to continue utilizing my wrestling background. Often times I am placed in positions at parties and bars, where drunk individuals will come up to me and proclaim when they get drunk they like fighting the biggest guy they can find, and from their begin to run their mouth's. Needless to say it puts me in an uncomfortable situation, because what I am expected to do in front my peers, and my own personal feelings towards the situation generally don't go hand in hand. I am in no way afraid to physically fight any man, but long ago I was able to mentally seperate my behavior in a social and a competitive setting. This has not only ensured my own legal security, but it has also resulted in the prevention of me seriously hurting another guy. Regardless of what society may say that I am suppose to act like in a situation like that, and wannabe macho guys in particular, it speaks volumes about my character that I am the guy that these wannabe's, want to be, and yet still I show restraint. Because at the end of the day, I know who I am regardless of what anybody may say, and that deep down I know that every drunk moron who approaches me to fight, is doing so because his own self worth is so vague and distorted that he is willing to risk his own well being in hopes of feeling good about himself for one second in his pathetic existence.

Originally posted by catwhoknowsplusone
reply to post by Bluesma

 

Hi Blues,

I have S & F'ed you because I am the mother of a son who has been through untold crap because of a woman.

I sure know what you mean!! I have two boys, and what they have been through is very poignant!

Get this-
My oldest is 23. He was with a girl for many years, they broke up because they were going to different colleges. So he was lonely and ended up meeting a woman on the web. This was on a site in which women have a shopping cart and pick out the men they want to converse with. The males are shown as if on a store shelf.

She was six years older than he, and a teacher. She told him she had been living in a relationship with a woman and they had broken up. He was very impressed with this older woman who was interested in him! She insisted that they plan marriage after one week of their first meeting. He complied. They began reserving the space for the reception and making announcements, he bought a ring and a tuxedo (spending all the money he had). We were in shock.

Two weeks into these wedding plans, she says she wants to start the baby now- why wait? So she immediately fell pregnant. (more shock for us). One week after the confirmation of pregnancy, she tells him, "I am not happy. You are not making me happy." He is baffled and asks what else he can do? He has complied with all of her desires she has asked for! She says I don't know. Just leave. Then she moved back in with her lesbian lover, and they now have a little baby girl, that she is making it almost impossible for him to see.

Basically he was used. She could have just gone to a sperm bank, but it would have cost her more. THIS "man store" was free. Now he's a 23 year old, racked with pain that he has a child he cannot be close to, still trying to get through school and struggling financially (but with a new tux in the closet ).

I think we laugh at the cougar stereotype- most men think it is a young guys dream, what's the problem? But there is some problems with that sometimes. This is no better than men that would use young women in the past to get what they wanted, and then throw them away!

I sure hope my younger son is taking notes, so at least the mistakes of his brother will serve something!

reply to post by Bluesma


It is a systematic problem across Western Civilization. But in Anglophone nations it is much, much worse. Not too long ago a man had his genitals severely mutilated and they where laughing about it on the day time tv show's.

The main word your looking for is "misandry", hatred of males. In America it is a full blown phenomenon. With both the leftist feminist's and the right-wing traditionalist's actively engaged in it. In both the Universities and in the Church's boy's, young men and men are utterly demonized.

reply to post by nickendres


You really hit on something I hold dear!
The choice to embrace parts of yourself like this, so that you can master it- choose the appropriate context for using and developing it, instead of repressing it most of the time, and then having it build up and come out in ways that are destructive!

You cannot master that which you do not own.

reply to post by Bluesma


Oh, Blues,

I am right there with you.

I think Sherilee only got Andy to make her babies and then made his life a misery.

It is so crap.

I’ll tell you an instance where this hit me-

Because I work a lot with animals that are social in nature, I am very used to speaking of the « alpha male» behaviorisms and roles. It is just a neutral description of a behaviorism or social drive amongst others, it is neither good nor bad- it just IS.
Once I used it in reference to a human behavior on a discussion board and through the replies, found out it is a term that is currently often used in reference to humans..... but it is Pegorative !! It is used to put down a person !

That just hit me as rather wierd. It is now Bad to be an alpha male. Is it just as bad to be an alpha female?

I think we laugh at the cougar stereotype- most men think it is a young guys dream, what's the problem?

As a young guy I want to tell you, I have no clue where this infatuation with "cougars" comes from, but to me it's down right disgusting. Over this past summer I worked at a bar as a bartender and a cook, and I was repeatedly hit on by older women, and although I would be polite because I am respectful, it still really weirded me out. And because I was so weirded out by it, I showed the women how weird it really was. For example this lady of similar age to my mom was hitting on me all night, and made a comment about how my downstairs mix-up looked in my shorts, and then proceeded to ask me where I got my shorts. I replied "I'm not really sure, my Mom got them for me". Right then and there she stopped. In regards to your son, I do feel for the guy because the situation he was put in was down right bull$#!^, but then again he also chose to not only get with an older "former" lesbian woman, but he even took it father by having sex with that woman and going as far to even marry her. By no means is your son stupid, he just made an extremely poor decision. I truly hope the best for him in regards to his child, and luckily we live in a society where wrongs can be made right in the court of law. Also on a side note, all he would have to do is explain the same story you told us in front of a judge who would also tell him he made an awful decision, but based upon the circumstances of her actions, and the fact that she is an educator which holds her to a higher standard in the eyes of the public, more importantly she is also a lesbian woman whose significant other is also a woman and the court will most certainly give your son custody based on the morale grounds of the whole situation. Because although times have changed, majority beliefs still hold true, and a lesbian household is still a social taboo no matter what anybody says.