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Producing Hydrogen at 1.24 volts

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posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 08:19 AM
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I'm sorry if everyone knows this already, but this infomation came to me with the same data as my previous thread on water powered vehicles, I don't venture into scientific threads often so here goes...

The supposed minimum hydrolysis voltage is 1.24 volts. According to the standard theory, no reaction should take place at room temperature below this voltage.

This theoretical figure was detirmined by taking the energy released per mole when hydrogen is burned. Using that figure, and knowing how many amp hours are needed to produce 1 mole of gas, they calculated the theorectical minimum voltage.

In other hands this figure was not determined by first-hand experimentation.

OK, here's how to do it:



  1. Fill a small jar with tap water and in it dissolve wable salt until reaching full saturation.
  2. Get two pieces of steel to use as electrodes. Two short pieces of 1 inch wide flat stock were used in the original experiment. They were spaced about 1/8 inch apart.
  3. Hook up a 1.5 volt dry cell battery to the two plates using a couple of test leads and then measure the voltage across the cell plates. You should see some gas coming off the electrodes and it'll be fizzing (my measurements showed 1.51 volts under load).
  4. Next, connect a small silicon rectifier diode in series with the battery and cell. The particular diode I had available dropped the circuit voltage by about 0.5 volts. The current will be quite a bit slower. But, you shold be able to see and hear the bubbles coming off the plates (my cell voltage was 1.05 volts during this part of the test).


Congratulations, your cell voltage should be lower than 1.24 volts, yet you are still producing hydrogen and oxygen gas.

At these lower voltages, you will be producing gas at greater than 100% efficiency according to the standard hydrolysis theory.

The reaction in this voltage is also endothermic, go figure.




posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 09:33 AM
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im no scientist, but won't that just reduce the amount of hydrogen produced, so it would take the same amount of electricity to get the same amount of hydrogen, it would just take longer. right? so that's not getting more than 100% efficiency, its getting exactly the same as before.

[edit on 23-8-2004 by superduperman]



posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 09:40 AM
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You may have a point there. I am only forwarding the info I got, as I don't have the equipment (the last post is unaltered from my mate and still has his comments in it, sorry I realised it sounds like I did it).



posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 04:17 PM
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I wouldn't bet on it..

It's also important to record the current that is flowing along with the voltage, else it's like having two water faucets where one is dripping and the other flowing rampantly. You're not getting an accurate view of the amount of electricity being used if you don't have both voltage and current, or watts (voltage*current). Water will seperate faster with a high current, as opposed to a high voltage. I've never heard of there being a minimum voltage, I would suppose that the reaction just isn't as easy to see that way (or that there wasn't enough current).

EDIT:
For anyone who wants to try this, it works with any higher power battery. A fresh nine volt battery will do it. Just attach a couple of wires into any container of water.

[edit on 8/23/2004 by shbaz]



posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 05:36 PM
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Once you "saturated" water with salt, you are no longer producing just H2 and O2, but somethig else. Find a chemistry book... If it's NaCl (the salt you use in kitchen) you'll be making choline maybe, H2 and Na(OH).

I'm not sure of this, but it's something like it.


MBF

posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by Ezekial

Congratulations, your cell voltage should be lower than 1.24 volts, yet you are still producing hydrogen and oxygen gas.

The reaction in this voltage is also endothermic, go figure.


You are not producing hydrogen and oxygen gas, you are producing hydrogen gas and chlorine gas and caustic soda(lye) which is a very strong basic material.

You are getting the endothermic reaction just by adding salt to water.

The reason that you are getting a good strong reaction is that salt water is a lot better conductor than pure water.

[edit on 23-8-2004 by MBF]



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 06:38 AM
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should there be a science and technology section for non scientists to post and read from? or is this really a top secret comedy site?

This is not funny- just a few suggestion to would be experimenters of minimum voltage to produce hydrogen - the volume of gas produced by electrolysis is proportional to the surface area of the electrode so if you really want results MAYBE you should use your car battery which already has two big electrodes if you disconnect it from the starter. If you strip the red cable down a few inches there would be enough room to seperate the stranded wire into 10 leads which if you believe whats written above about moles and current you should wrap 2 of around each of your fingers of your one hand so as to MAYBE end up with less than 1.2 cell voltage of your cells when you put both the red and the black cable into the container of salt water.



posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 12:08 PM
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You ARE producing hydrogen and oxygen! Water, as everybody should know, is H2O, or two hydrogen molecules for every one oxygen molecule. I have built an electrolysis station in my bedroom on a budget of 4 dollars. Milk jug, two pencils, wires, clips, and an AC adaptor (11.5 volts). The only cost was the four clips, and the AC adaptor came from my digital camera (hence it was free).

There shouldn't be a Science and Technology section for non-scientists, because probably 95% of members who most often post here are already non-scientists.

Quick poll: Anybody who is an official scientist that frequently posts/reads in Science and. Tech. please reply here.

[edit on 10/30/04 by diehard_democrat]


MBF

posted on Oct, 30 2004 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by diehard_democrat
You ARE producing hydrogen and oxygen! Water, as everybody should know, is H2O, or two hydrogen molecules for every one oxygen molecule.

[edit on 10/30/04 by diehard_democrat]


If you are using only water, you will be producing oxygen and hydrogen. If you add salt to the water you are producing hydrogen gas and chlorine gas.



posted on Oct, 31 2004 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by diehard_democrat
You ARE producing hydrogen and oxygen! Water, as everybody should know, is H2O, or two hydrogen molecules for every one oxygen molecule. I have built an electrolysis station in my bedroom on a budget of 4 dollars. Milk jug, two pencils, wires, clips, and an AC adaptor (11.5 volts). The only cost was the four clips, and the AC adaptor came from my digital camera (hence it was free).

There shouldn't be a Science and Technology section for non-scientists, because probably 95% of members who most often post here are already non-scientists.

Quick poll: Anybody who is an official scientist that frequently posts/reads in Science and. Tech. please reply here.

[edit on 10/30/04 by diehard_democrat]



1. There is no such thing as official scientist. Unless you recognize only persons working as a scientist for government or other official body. There is no regulation of using the word scientist on oneself.

2. Water consists of hydrogen and oxygen. Unless you add something to it as has happened here. Once you add NaCl to the water it's no longer about dissolving water.

From webelements:


Chlorine is found largely in seawater where it exists as sodium chloride. It is recovered as a reactive, corrosive, pale green chlorine gas from brine (a solution of sodium chloride in water) by electrolyis.

Na+ + Cl- + H2O Na+ + 1/2Cl2 + 1/2H2 + OH-

Seems familiar doesn't it ?
www.webelements.com...

More about the process in question:
www.chem.tamu.edu...
www.chem.tamu.edu...


3. Chlorine has been used as a battle gas and is considered a weapon of mass destruction. It is dangerous and can be lethal. So even if you don't believe me, please don't call your neighborhood kids to breathe your refreshing freshly manufactured "oxygen".


[edit on 31-10-2004 by vibetic]



posted on Oct, 31 2004 @ 07:43 AM
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Another problem that seems everyone forgot, or does not want to mention, is that there is a risk of explosion because you have now separated the two components of water. ie: Hydrogen gas, and the Oxidizer, Oxygen which is also a gas, One stray spark, static, or otherwise, and you might end up in the emergency room at your local hospital.

Use caution if you want to play around with water and electricity. Remember, the two don't mix.



posted on Oct, 31 2004 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by MBF

Originally posted by Ezekial

Congratulations, your cell voltage should be lower than 1.24 volts, yet you are still producing hydrogen and oxygen gas.

The reaction in this voltage is also endothermic, go figure.


You are not producing hydrogen and oxygen gas, you are producing hydrogen gas and chlorine gas and caustic soda(lye) which is a very strong basic material.

You are getting the endothermic reaction just by adding salt to water.

The reason that you are getting a good strong reaction is that salt water is a lot better conductor than pure water.

[edit on 23-8-2004 by MBF]


Apparently the Chlorine obtained in this kind of reaction is the way that salt water swimming pools produce it, in addition to the "caustic soda," in small quantities. That is enough to keep the water pure without excessive chlorine, as is the case in conventional swimming pools.

I swim daily in such a pool, and the water is mild, as it does not create such an amount of Chlorine as to make the eyes red, nor does the blond haried person have to deal with the hair "turning green."

Salt Water Pools



posted on Oct, 31 2004 @ 10:51 AM
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1. There is no such thing as official scientist. Unless you recognize only persons working as a scientist for government or other official body. There is no regulation of using the word scientist on oneself.


True, and that's basically what I was trying to say. Change of plans:

If you are a scientist (chemist, physicist, astronomer, biologist, astrophysicist, botanist, herbologist, etc. etc.) then reply here stating so.



posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 06:45 PM
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.
Hydrogen gas is explosive and i believe illegal to produce.

I doubt the FBI are going to raid your home for small amounts though.

The thing to watch out for is explosive reactions of H2 gas with O2 (air) oxygen.

Both are gases and therefore difficult to control.
.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 11:08 PM
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Has anyone thought about changing the dc source to a pulsed dc source and trying to find a resonance frequency between to two plates?



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