Mich. governor signs 48-month welfare limit

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by Xcathdra


Welfare, when used as anything other than its intended use, is wealth redistribution hiding in plain sight.

Do you consider subsudies paid to oil companies, farmers, www.downsizinggovernment.org...
www.window.state.tx.us...

In effect welfare for the rich and redistribution of wealth to those already wealthy.

Much more fun to scapegoat the poor isn't it?

edit on 7-9-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

For the record I think that pretty much all subsidies for companies that make profits should be paid back with interest. Some industries are addicted to those subsidies that they think that can't operate with out them. I'm for incentives to increase business and jobs but the subsidies you are referring to are never ending government handouts......I despise that. Give small business such incentives and subsidies and you would knock unemployment in half and things would be turning around again...... Too bad both parties are bought and paid for by PAC's and big business. The individual business owner gets shafted by out own government.

reply to post by TDawgRex


This stuff always looks good on paper, but in reality we keep people out of the dirt because it affords us all a higher standard of living. Those who are unwilling to pull themselves out of the dirt will not magically go and get a job they will instead turn to crime, drug dealing etc… and if there are enough of them they will form shanty towns etc… Just look to Lagos if you do not believe this. There are many reasons why we have welfare, and at the very bottom of the list is the humanity factor.

What you save in welfare checks will be spent fighting the unheard of crime levels. Your prisons will overflow and your streets will not be safe.

I would hope that behind the scenes they find a good balance here, because the reality of this is clear to see in many places all over the world. You need only visit the slums of Lagos to put one and one togather. No welfare = Third World

Welfare is nothing more than a tool to manage or prevent extreme poverty and all the problems that come along with it.

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by korath
I'll bet a lot of them just wait out the four years and then pack up and reapply in another state. Welfare benefits should have a nationwide limit.

Or perhaps get a gun and hone those predatory skills. It's gonna get ugly!

The VAST majority of those cut off of welfare under this plan will not turn to a life of crime. Have a little more faith in your fellow man.

Sorry, I lost what little faith I had in my fellow man, when I was in the military.

Originally posted by Realtruth

School loans have become one of the biggest scams, in the USA today, and I feel for the young students saddling themselves with this burden early in their lives.

Yeah, they are killers once you start paying them back. Healthcare and Higher Education have gone up in price eaisly over twice the rate of inflation. It's like they have a built in factor of "let's increase the price by 7.5% a year....no one will notice".

Year College Inflation General Inflation Rate Ratio
1958-1996 7.24% 4.49% 1.61
1977-1986 9.85% 6.72% 1.47
1987-1996 6.68% 3.67% 1.82
1958-2001 6.98% 4.30% 1.62
1979-2001 7.37% 3.96% 1.86
1992-2001 4.77% 2.37% 2.01
1985-2001 6.39% 3.18% 2.01
1958-2005 6.89% 4.15% 1.66
1989-2005 5.94% 2.99% 1.99

reply to post by whaaa


I thank you for your service, but don't give up on people.....heck you might even convert me. I see a lot of poorer people in my travels, most would rather be working or doing something. They don't like being on assistance, but can't imagine anything else. We need to change that perception.

Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by whaaa

 

I thank you for your service, but don't give up on people.....heck you might even convert me. I see a lot of poorer people in my travels, most would rather be working or doing something. They don't like being on assistance, but can't imagine anything else. We need to change that perception.

There are plenty of places full of oportunity that are still packed with slums, as I have been to many. Of cource they will say if we had this or that, but in reality they do not mind a life in the dirt and find a life of crime and cunning more appealing. The slums or shanty town breed crime like we have never seen in America. Really you have no idea!

If you were born into a shanty town/slum then what motivation would you really have to pull yourself out of it?

The end of welfare is a scary prosepect in my mind. In fact I think we should cut all of the Fed first as our living standards should be protected. From what I have seen first hand, no welfare = third world!

Originally posted by litterbaux
If you don't buy anything, how are corporations stealing your money? You understand they can only steal what you give them right?

The only argument you have is the federal and state taxes. Which you have no control over since they get taken out of your income before the income reaches you. Unless you lie about income.

Graaaaahhhhhh *head explodes*

I dont know how many times these simplistic, naive arguments have to be refuted. Its like people dont WANT to learn. Or like they just HAVE to keep repeating the same lies over and over.

Here, I'll give you a nice easy free one: free trade, whereby a corp moves a factory overseas for lower production cost, is a multiple thievery from us. One, it steals our jobs and recycles them overseas for pennies on the dollar; Secondly, they sell the product at US wage prices, instead of passing the savings of the lost US jobs onto us, therfore stealing the profit margin there; Thridly they evade any tarriff during this whole process, which I consider a thievery; and finally, they cook the books and use loopholes to get billions in refunds from our tax system, another thievery as far as Im concerned.

So unless you are paid to do so, please stop spouting "Corporations are my friend!" you rabid free trade capitalist, because you are spouting misinformation. If you are paid to do so....well then, duly noted.

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

This stuff always looks good on paper, but in reality we keep people out of the dirt because it affords us all a higher standard of living. Those who are unwilling to pull themselves out of the dirt will not magically go and get a job they will instead turn to crime, drug dealing etc… and if there are enough of them they will form shanty towns etc… Just look to Lagos if you do not believe this. There are many reasons why we have welfare, and at the very bottom of the list is the humanity factor.

What you save in welfare checks will be spent fighting the unheard of crime levels. Your prisons will overflow and your streets will not be safe.

I would hope that behind the scenes they find a good balance here, because the reality of this is clear to see in many places all over the world. You need only visit the slums of Lagos to put one and one togather. No welfare = Third World!

edit on 7-9-2011 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)

Everyone is crying wolf about how bad it's going to be, how crime is going to sky rocket, how drug addicts are going to multiply, but I see no evidence to support this. Without a cruch to stand on, people will learn to stand on their own. And if they are unable to, there are other assistance programs that will help them.

Japan does not provide welfare to it's citizens like the US does. They still have some temporary assistance available, but less than 1% of their population receives welfare benefits, and the vast majority of those people are elderly or disabled. Compare that to the 15%+ in the US that receive welfare. Where are the vast number of people committing violent crimes in Japan because they aren't getting a free ride? Oh, that's right, they actually have a work ethic and learn to provide for themselves.

For people that have been on welfare 2 or more years, give them a 2 year extension. Everyone else's time goes towards their two years. There is absolutely no reason why a healthy individual cannot become self-sustaining with-in 2-4 years. Perhaps knowing they cannot continue to live off the state for life will provide some much needed motivation.

Originally posted by Akasirus

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

This stuff always looks good on paper, but in reality we keep people out of the dirt because it affords us all a higher standard of living. Those who are unwilling to pull themselves out of the dirt will not magically go and get a job they will instead turn to crime, drug dealing etc… and if there are enough of them they will form shanty towns etc… Just look to Lagos if you do not believe this. There are many reasons why we have welfare, and at the very bottom of the list is the humanity factor.

What you save in welfare checks will be spent fighting the unheard of crime levels. Your prisons will overflow and your streets will not be safe.

I would hope that behind the scenes they find a good balance here, because the reality of this is clear to see in many places all over the world. You need only visit the slums of Lagos to put one and one togather. No welfare = Third World!

edit on 7-9-2011 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)

Everyone is crying wolf about how bad it's going to be, how crime is going to sky rocket, how drug addicts are going to multiply, but I see no evidence to support this. Without a cruch to stand on, people will learn to stand on their own. And if they are unable to, there are other assistance programs that will help them.

Japan does not provide welfare to it's citizens like the US does. They still have some temporary assistance available, but less than 1% of their population receives welfare benefits, and the vast majority of those people are elderly or disabled. Compare that to the 15%+ in the US that receive welfare. Where are the vast number of people committing violent crimes in Japan because they aren't getting a free ride? Oh, that's right, they actually have a work ethic and learn to provide for themselves.

For people that have been on welfare 2 or more years, give them a 2 year extension. Everyone else's time goes towards their two years. There is absolutely no reason why a healthy individual cannot become self-sustaining with-in 2-4 years. Perhaps knowing they cannot continue to live off the state for life will provide some much needed motivation.

CRYING WOLF??? There are 10 million+ real world examples friend!!

Welfare is nothing more than a tool to manage or prevent extreme poverty and all the problems that come along with it.

I have traveled allot in my life, and I can tell you for a fact that no welfare = third world!

We are not Japan, and we have many millions of the same that you see in the slums for lack of better way to put it. It would be nice if you had a magic wand here, but you need only look to housing projects of the 50's and 60's to see what you are really asking for. Your dogma is not new, and there are very good reasons why things are the way they are today. Very good reasons!

We could find a balance though. Kick many to the curb, but not so many that we created unmanageable problems. I am all for this actually as to many are just taking advantage and would get a real job.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


Wow I must have really hit a nerve with you. All I said was nobody is stealing your money. You choose to spend it where you prefer. Instead of derailing this important thread of how people are abusing the welfare system why don't you make a thread on how corporations are "stealing" your hard earned money.

Good grief.

Originally posted by orbitbaby
This is going to be interesting. Michigan has one of the highest
unemployment rates in the country. Where are these people
supposed to get jobs?

LET EM EAT CAKE!

Originally posted by SeleneLux

Originally posted by lpowell0627
The answer to all of this is simple:

There are no longer enough working people to pay all of those not working. Why can't people see the simple math in this?

Then stop the welfare for the rich FIRST!!! The system is strained because of the tax breaks and subsidies to the big corporate and the military industrial complex that is dragging down the system. The poor is not as much of a problem as the rich.

OMG! Someone with common sense! Damn straight tax the wealthy, and collect the due from the Corporations and Banksters that dine on food we've never even heard of.

We could also save a dollar or two by ceasing to line the pockets of the Daddy Warbucks types who make huge coin producing items used to kill people in foreign countries. Holy crap would we save money if we stopped killing people and blowing up their lands for a 10 year period, or perhaps forever.

Meanwhile, the s.o.b.'s that profited nicely by sending millions of jobs Overseas should have to create jobs for their fellow countrymen right here in America where we need them.

And if we're really feeling kookie maybe we could tell half or 3/4 of the Illegal immigrants to get the heck out, the key word being Illegal.

We won't see any of this happen. It's class warfare. Our government is a shill D vs R charade of nothingness, puppets handled by the mega-wealthy gorging themselves on commoners suffering.

All i can say is DAMN! things are starting to get ugly.
And they are going to get a whole lot uglier if this keeps up.
But it's just a sign of the times.
The country is going bankrupt.
I'll make a prediction in the future the very people that hate welfare will wish they had welfare to fall back on.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

reply to post by LargeFries


Sir, you are a breath of fresh air.

Boy, come 1st of the month, the fecal matter is going to hit the rotating osolating device! Wait until Al Sharpton gets wind of this.

I like this. I think its smart, I think it gets people off their asses and saves a little bit of tax payer money in the process.

I do believe there needs to be a certain regulations set to help motivate people to get back to work and off welfare. I feel 4 years is more than enough time to find a job. I will say that the end result of this could be quite interesting, and potentially costly. Say a person stops receiving their welfare checks and develops health issues due to malnourishment and has to be rushed to the hospital, a weeks stay in a hospital will likely cost us tax payers much more than it would to just pay them, now imagine this happening to tens of thousands (if not more) of people....

reply to post by TXRabbit


i don't disagree with the limit put on the social assistance. but i question the timing of the law. few jobs and more people going on unemployment all the time. now is when we need a program to get people through the bad time. i don't like the idea of someone using the system to live off of for the rest of their life. but if there is no job that pays a living wage then what can a person do?

my thoughts on how the governor should handle this situation:
first work towards bringing employers to the state,
second help people connect with those employers,
third once the economy begins to bounce back, then begin thinking about limiting the assistance.

-subfab

reply to post by LargeFries


Here comes more dis-info agent verbage!

You don't hear about illegal immigrant stock brokers or illegal immigrant lawyers. These people are doing jobs that nobody else wants to do. Face it, do you want to pick strawberries for 12 hours a day for 10 bucks? Didn't think so. Now we get back to the welfare problem. People do not want to do hard labor and earn an honest buck. These immigrants aren't taking jobs from Americans, they are taking jobs Americans don't want. Someone has to pick your blueberries, would you do it for 10 dollars a day? You wont, they will. The list goes on and on. Would you wash dishes at taco bell for minimum wage or just take welfare? A sensible person would take welfare, its more money and you don't have to do anything at all.

Welfare is a crutch not a way of life.

Why is this so hard to understand?

reply to post by TXRabbit


I fear the crimes across the state are going to get extremely vicious. As proven in NYC, a majority of welfare recepients will work when they are left with no other option, but no welfare and no prospect of work is a very dangerous mix.

The simple solution is to tax the wealthy more and make the corporations pay their PROPER share for the privileges of doing business in this country. Even with a tax increase, where else in the world can a corporation find a combination of low taxes, high returns, stable infrastructure and legal system, low risk of government takeover, and great customer base?