Mich. governor signs 48-month welfare limit

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posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Kitilani
reply to post by pavil
 


What good is being able to work if there is no one to pay you for it?


I could ask the same like this: "What good is it for the government to pay you not to work for 14 years when you could work?

There are jobs, some of them not great, but a job none the less. Problem is that many won't/can't work for minimum wage since government benefits provide them better and easier money.

A lot of our job ill's come from NAFTA. I blame both parties for that. Free trade does not mean FAIR trade. American workers have not benefited from NAFTA at all. When we outsource production and jobs to other countries, it has hurt our economy, it's the slow bleed of our money. Look what happens when we have done that....Wages stagnant or down for the average American family and cheap, shoddy goods for the most part coming in. Companies that supported the production of goods made in America vanished along with the main factories. NAFTA was not good for America IMO.




posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by TXRabbit
 


This is a great idea, but I hope the government will use some rational thinking behind individual cases. It's not always the case when people are unemployed that they're unemployed because of laziness. Sometimes, other factors must be weighed in.

But overall, I think this is a great step in the right direction. If you're fit, you should be working. Granted it's not always easy to find a job, but when you have four years you should be able to find something. I've had to start on the bottom several times, only to get ahead and then end up starting on the bottom again. It's not pretty, in fact it can be down right humiliating. However, it has to be done. We can't sit around waiting for someone else to take care of us.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


Well I agree with you on the "will" part but here is where we run into the problem with all of these issues surrounding welfare ,be it cash ,housing, foodstamps. First ,don't think I have not experienced first hand ,someone abusing the system. I knew of this girl (this was someone I met a few times thru a neighbor) she had housing ,foodstamps ,cash benefits and she had two kids. This person was just trashy ,she wasn't a very good mum and she did drugs, sold drugs ,dated men who did and sold drugs. She had a bunch of people living with her in her 100$ a month town house. So she collected money from those people and sold foodstamps for drugs ,alcohol and cash. I only heard all this about her ,never witnessed first hand but having gone with the neighbor to her home to drop off some diapers for her child ,I saw the way she lived so the stories fit in my mind.

Anyway I know people don't always DO THE RIGHT THING, I know there are people on help who have little to no drive to change their situation. I know all this but I cannot justify punishing the good ones for these few bad ones. The ones with no drive to do ANYTHING ,THE ONES WITH NO EXCUSE OR REASON to be that way besides that they just suck ,well its too bad they cannot be eliminated from the system but who is to say and how can it even be monitored who HAS DRIVE AND WILL AND WHO DOES NOT???? WHAT IS the test??? Who is to say who has drive and who does not cuz its not always apparent ,if you aren't living with someone and you don't know them well ,well how could you know??? Also there are some people who have no "will" because they have been pushed down Soooo much they cannot bring that will out. It would take someone really caring about that person to bring that will up. What if everytine they try they are told no or hit a brick wall? What if all that has battered that will so it is not apparent. The system is so messed up but untill someone finds the answer to fix it then just leaving people behind is not the answer.


There are several bad apples in the world but in time they make their own rope ,tie the knot , and hang themselves. See, I know they do because that girl I spoke of......she ended up in prison for drugs. Now, taking advantage of the system will be near impossible for her. They always mess themselves up ,these bad apples.

I am driven ,so much so that I sit on the computer researching the things I would love to go to school for ,I write papers. I write papers about this thing I want to do for no reason other than I want to learn. See, id LOVE to become a doctor. I love medicine. I always have. If I could I would be in school NOW. I am up every morning early doing things, if I don't have work away from home I am cleaning organizing, helping my kids with school. (They school online at home) I got lucky and got them into a private school in another city that they do online. It's awesome. Anyway what I am getting at is ,besides myself and my family benefits from my drive who else is gonna see this and offer me to go thru medical school for FREE??? I COULD be sitting at home sleeping all day, sending my kids to public school away from home to be alone sleeping all day. I could stop working my business and get assistance and then I bet my school would be free.


I hope this made sense. I am typing on this darn phone again and helping my son at the same time and have lost my train of thought twice. Lol.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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Sounds like an excellent way to push the starving, uneducated poor into committing crimes and becoming incarcerated. This ensures job security and profit for those in the prison industrial complex and law enforcement sectors. These are the protectors of the elite as well as the rest of the managerial class.

Once millions of new incarcerations are pushed through, and prisons are built, the economies will be stimulated. The incarcerated will also help provide a slave labor class, who will be forced to work for pennies on the dollar to manufacture products or provide services here in the United States. This will reduce outsourcing and increase profitability for corporations.

Incarceration is far more profitable than execution, otherwise I could see them rounding up and disposing of the poor, uneducated, and sick.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by DJM8507
 


I have a conspiracies mind but yours is better, that is something that we can not dismiss, the possibility of using incarceration for slave work.

But still doesn't Michigan will benefit from the next round of economic stimulus? after all it is in part to bring jobs to states.

I can not imagine what a welfare limit like that will do to my state. We already have high criminality rates runining wild.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by DJM8507
Sounds like an excellent way to push the starving, uneducated poor into committing crimes and becoming incarcerated.


Ha. They are THE ONES committing the crimes now. Breaking and Enterings are not being committed by podiatrists and actuaries. Diesel mechanics aren't committing the home invasions. Grocery check-out clerks aren't beating up old ladies for "the check". Firemen aren't the ones selling crack in the 'hood. Flashmobs don't seem to be populated by librarians on their lunch break.

the criminal demographic is the same population that lives on welfare. The reason why governments are trying to dismantle the "projects" is that they breed crime and drug dealing.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by SHABBYCAT
 
No solution is perfect. The good folks that are hurt by this bill will have other avenues of help. Be it friends, neighbors, church.
With looming budget crisis after crisis, measures have to be taken NOW before everyone is suddenly cut off. A 4 year safety net is a good start, but in the end, it should fall on the shoulders of the individual, NOT the government. Be it 4 years, or 4 weeks.
There has been a blurring of the lines between safety net and nanny state. Hopefully, measures like this can redefine those lines.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 12:46 PM
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I am watching the "welfare entitlement" play out in a friend's family, on a purely personal level.

The guy retired early, and decided he could live for the rest of his life off of his nest egg; just sit at home and drink and watch TV. But his money has run out, and he hasn't had a job for years.

His family took him in, after I refused to do so. I love him, but know he would sponge off of me and my wife & kids instead of getting a job. So he moved in with his sister's family. They gave him 6 months to get his case together.

The 6 months runs out October 1; and guess what, he hasn't done anything to get a job or enroll in college. He is freaking out and raging against everyone for "betraying" him. But he hasn't applied for a single job interview. My bet is, he won't until about September 27 or so. He won't bother, but he'll blame "the recession" for making it "impossible" for him to survive. With his unused engineering degree. And his friends and family who wanted to help, but ended up merely enabling his flight from reality for another 6 months.

Sure, there are deserving poor. I have been them once. Once. After that I got my self together, and haven't been unemployed since the 6th of August, 1993. I've had to change jobs, change careers, and start a business that wound up failing. But I always had my eye on the next lilly pad to jump to. I bailed hay. I shovelled cow and horse poop. I unloaded trucks and cleaned up construction sites. I also put my degree to work, and eventually got a masters, and now enjoy some modicum of job security.

Its just part of being an adult, a honest man, a husband and a dad. I guess some people aren't up for that.

I don't mind paying for the unfit, or the down-on-their-luck. It's the lazy I resent paying for.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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And honestly ........you really think sitting around being lazy recieving benefits gives a person MORE than a job????? I find that extremely hard to believe. Id really like to see a link or some proof that a person can make more on welfare than working even a minimum wage job. Really ,I want to see this.

People that come on here saying people WANT to be on welfare are just full of it in my mind ,I cannot accept that ANYONE would like to be in the system. Like I said I know there are people who take advantage but puhlease .......I seriously doubt a majority want to be on welfare. That's just ludicrous.

You better than thou types who think all out problems stem from social service ie. Welfare are really ignorant. You must not read much on this web site about all the insane spending your government does with your money. The amount spent helping the poor is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount these fat cats in power spend on themselves ( their homes, cars, airplanes, vacations, private chefs ,ect.) Come on ,the president is vacationing at Marthas Vineyard. Do you know the cost???? And YOU paid for it. Why don't we get pissed at those people THEY ARE THE ONES LIVING IN LUXURY ,HIGH ON THE HOG , on our god Damn dollars. These peons taking in the measly foodstamp benefit or what little cash they give are NOT THE ONES REALLY BILKIN the Damn system.

Just think about it, you are getting ugly towards the WRONG people. Isn't that what we all hate???? The government spending our money on ridiculous crap. Shoot ,if you think about it not enough is available for welfare ,if we took all that cash those crooked ptb bastar** are stealing from you right in your face ,we would all be living better.

Do you pay attention to what goes on ?????? How bad is Americas debt cuz of these idiots????? Just use your brain and think!!!!!! Untill someone comes up with a way to fix tptb spending issues first!, then fix our social service system ,things will NEVER change and untill people get off the darn computer gripping about people on welfare and so something about the direction of this country well then this is it people and its only getting worse. Enjoy and please stop harping on people who take welfare I find it hard to believe the whole of them LIKE IT. it cannot pay better than a minimum wage job.


Again,apologies for my typos, darn touch screen phone, kids are using the computers for school right now.



Peace and love brothers and sisters



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 12:53 PM
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This thread saddens me so. I understand what everyone is feeling, we all feel like we have been getting chumped out every level. Yes the peolpe that have taken advantage have left our safety net in a shambles and it does not work well for those that really need it.

The problem is that this is not the REAL problem!!

The real problem has been this give the rich a break so they will create jobs, instead for the past 30 years the rich are using this money to set up shop overseas, on our dime. The real problem is that the banks never gave the variable rate mortgage people a break when they're 7 point interest rate went to 12 percent, instead of changing policy so that the rate went back to when the homeowner could afford it they just took the houses and we lost all those consumers and tax payers. Then bailed out the rich again while our own friends and family went homeless. The real problem is this endless war on terror that has broke our nation.

The real problem is not the poor and helpless it is the rich and powerful.

Wake up America. You are being hoodwinked and manipulated.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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Oh boy. Not going to Michigan anytime soon. Going to be a whole new level of crime sprees with this one. The majority of people on welfare are single mothers from what I've seen.

And momma's gonna feed them kids; you can count on it.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck
 


Hell, this is the same in GA, most of the welfare goes to single mothers also, but lo and behold, they know how to reproduce, (father no needed most of the time after conception) now we have to deal with illegal immigration and lo and behold, those American babies from illegal immigrants are winning the race now.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 




And I agree but come on...... Do we really believe its welfare that is hurting our country making it bad for everyone else???? Seriously ???? I agree the system we have is seriously flawed. I agree things need to change and quick but I know even if they cut all welfare bar the ones who are really destitute and even then cut them by a lot and regulated the heck out of them ,we would still be in dire straights in this country financially and would then be worse cuz those people who were now without the help would be crowding our prisons and I'm not gonna even get started on that subject (the justice system) talk about flawed . Lol anyway the reason I decided to speak up today ,I rarely do , is because I am so sick of how just ughhhh silly some of these threads turn when speaking of welfare. I get so mad because I think people are harping on the wrong things.



It's only the opinions of a shabbycat. Who really cares what I have to say. All I can do is try to change things myself and when I think about trying to change things I literally LAUGH OUT LOUD!!!!!



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by SHABBYCAT
 


I don't think that anyone is under the assumption that this is a great solution to all our economic problems.
If job centers, programs aren't initated, then it will be a foolish action at best.

But it is a step in the right direction.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


You are right, because throwing federal funds to "help" states unemployment out is not going to cut it. While the administration is encouraging infractructure job creation, (like the last stimulus)
it its also to go to pay for schools, (teachers), so to tell you the truth infrastructure is just a temporary thing and actually paying for already jobs held by teachers is just a way of preserving the jobs that are already there.

Interesting isn't it.

What did the last stimulus pay for in my city? well it pay for teachers pensions and to preserve their jobs (temporarily), a couple side roads fixing, (the sign to tell it was from stimulus money cost more than the tar used on the road).

And 4 big sings that say "Welcome to the city of _______".
now we need more money to start all over again.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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My buddy works and he gets welfare in Michigan. He only makes $8 an hour working part time at Walmart. He can't find a full time job. He supports 2 other people his mom and brother. His mom is sick and can't work. His brother is still in school. They rely heavely on Welfare. Right now they don't even have gas. They take cold showers. They're worrried they won't be able to afford to have it turned on for the winter. They don't have cable tv or internet. They have one cell phone. My buddy makes $150 a week and thier rent is $800 a month. If they loose thier welfare thier gonna homeless.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by SHABBYCAT
 


I don't think that anyone is under the assumption that this is a great solution to all our economic problems.
If job centers, programs aren't initated, then it will be a foolish action at best.

But it is a step in the right direction.
Absolutely. If we adopted this as a lifetime maximum, then I would be in favor of actually paying for job training or an AA degree in an employable field like nursing or something. No liberal arts majors though
Only fields where you can actually go out and find work for a reasonable wage.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by wantsome
My buddy works and he gets welfare in Michigan. He only makes $8 an hour working part time at Walmart. He can't find a full time job. He supports 2 other people his mom and brother. His mom is sick and can't work. His brother is still in school. They rely heavely on Welfare. Right now they don't even have gas. They take cold showers. They're worrried they won't be able to afford to have it turned on for the winter. They don't have cable tv or internet. They have one cell phone. My buddy makes $150 a week and thier rent is $800 a month. If they loose thier welfare thier gonna homeless.

If you read the source, exemptions will be made for medical reasons.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by wantsome
My buddy works and he gets welfare in Michigan. He only makes $8 an hour working part time at Walmart. He can't find a full time job. He supports 2 other people his mom and brother. His mom is sick and can't work. His brother is still in school. They rely heavely on Welfare. Right now they don't even have gas. They take cold showers. They're worrried they won't be able to afford to have it turned on for the winter. They don't have cable tv or internet. They have one cell phone. My buddy makes $150 a week and thier rent is $800 a month. If they loose thier welfare thier gonna homeless.
How long does he plan to live that way? Honestly. Wouldn't a deadline be better to get him motivated to address his problems? I do believe that if this is put in place, we should provide job training so that we are not just throwing them to the wolves later. However it should be a nationwide maximum benefit. 4 years over the span of your entire life. That's it.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


Sadly this a good example of what, working and still depending on welfare means, many people work but still they need welfare to be able to survive.

So he probably will not lose his benefits as he has to care for others as the head of the family.

He will be an "exception".

edit on 7-9-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)





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