Is organic food a scam?

reply to post by unityemissions

Besides the obvious fact that the shipping and moving it around the country/world would take time, and in the process some nutrients would be lost, what about the fact that it's not fully mature (ripe) when picked? Don't you think there are less nutrients because of this?

Yes in some cases it's the same as steaming a vegetable or eating it raw. The fact is, nutrition isn't the only deciding factor in the majority of people going organic, it's much more beyond that. The limited studies they've done show no real tangible nutritional benefit, so they say it's a waste of time. That's not the point at all for me or any of the people I've met when I started this quasi hundred mile diet.

Sure, I feel better after I eat these foods, I find most if not all taste better (tomatoes for example, or even a simple green pepper). most of them tend to last longer in storage than their supermarket counterparts as well.

The nutritional benefit is minimal. The environmental and sustainability benefits are grand.

Keep in mind when talking organic, I'm talking stuff I know for a fact is organic as I can tour the farm whenever I want. not all products with an "organic" label are organic, in fact, depending on where you live, only 1 ingredient in that produce can be organic to get that label, like a single spice or organic soy. The "organic" section at your local supermarket is mostly crap. It's a gimmick. check the labels and you will be surprised, I'm sure. the "real" organic stuff isn't as pretty as the non organic, some of it doesn't last as long, some of it lasts longer.

The meet is all natural, no antibiotics, no growth hormones, nothing, grain feed, not corn. Free range chickens and eggs, all natural pork. animals that had a decent quality of life, like it was "back in the day". As such, since I'm supporting a farm that actually produces more than 1 crop, I'm helping the surrounding environment as massive factory farms producing 1 crop, or growing 1 animal, completely destroy the land being used. Our dirty little secret is we can't hope to sustain this indefinitely.

The produce is grown the natural way, back like the farms my grand father would have worked in his youth. Sure, there is some crop loss. guess what? It's about 1/3 on average. Guess what else? That's exactly the same ratio as the gmo crops and the crops sprayed with pesticides.

And by going to these markets, and using the vegetable box program from the farm, I help keep them running. They use my money to plant their crows and tend the fields, in turn producing even more products they can sell locally and within the province, giving more people that option.

I guess you can call me a clean tree hugging hippy at heart but I feel good about every aspect of this, the added nutritional benefits are actually quite small.

The main benefit for consuming "organic" food is that it doesn't have steroids and hasn't had it's DNA fudged with. I personally don't do the shopping in the family, but I have noticed that vegetables from the fruit and vegetable stand on the corner do taste much better.

Is that psychological? Probably, but it could also be that it's fresher.

I do know that in your local grocer, "organic" foods are more expensive. This is due to the time it takes to grow the vegetables and, or meat products you buy. It takes longer for chickens, cows, and vegetables to grow with no intervention. Steroids in fowl, beef and pork make them grow faster, and larger. Hence the cheaper prices. It takes less to feed them to get them large enough for slaughter and it happens quicker.

The choice I would say is a personal one.

Is nature a scam? GMO products alter the basic make up of the fruit or vegetable, causing chain reactions at every stage in its growth, and in turn yours.

Originally posted by Kitilani
This is all I know for a FACT about organic foods in the US.
Organic milk is way too expensive to buy and it tastes AMAZING compared to normal milk. Yeah, milk that tastes amazing.
No idea about anything else about that.

Stoney fields organic milk yummmmmm. Id never go back to reg. milk tastes like cow poop lol.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Now I was under the assumption that organic food meant it uses no pesticides, not that it was more nutritious? I wonder, does organic also mean it's not apart of the genetically modified foods or can organic foods be genetically modified but just doesn't use pesticides? Aren't genetically modified foods created to fight off pests & decay?

Either way, I dont want to eat genetically modified foods, evar

I apologize in advance because I did not take time to read through four pages of comments. The majority of what I read in the first page seemed to be not very helpful in answering your concerns.

Is organic food more nutritious? Without citing a long list of articles I will comment on what I have personally learned out in the field. Organic farmers are concerned about the health of the soil. There have always been natural ways not to deplete the soil through common sense crop rotation. Some crops put nutrients back into the soil etc. They tend to follow the cycles of the moon for planting. Last year I tried this and did not have one potato bug in my garden. There are natural ways to eliminate pests and fungus. It is more labor intensive, but there is a pay off in the end.

Organic farmers do not use GMO products or the poisons that go along with them. Genetically modified foods are not proven safe. I understand independant studies are not accepted by our government. They take the word of the gmo makers themselves. Why? Greed! Our politicians are beholden to the corporate seed companies and farms. What happens to scientists who speak out?



I don't have a lot of faith in the FSA's opinion about organic food. Are they a government agency like the FDA in the US? If that is the case, they are not a good witness to the truth.

Originally posted by newcovenant
I shudder to think of the day ...and it is on the horizon when we will no longer eat any of our food the way nature intended. I'll never have a decent peach again...I already know that.

I understand the sentiment. But after weighing all the information provided by you guys, Im even more skeptical.

A common belief seems to be that natural = better. But is it really? If that were so, Id exchange my house for living in a tree.

Originally posted by unityemissions

Pesticide laden food, vs no pesticide food...

One is not more healthy than the other?!

Uh....

LOL

Sorry for my ignorance. Non-pesticided food is not necessarily healthier. I understand that.

Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

I would say organic food is real, it's the soil first of all, how rich it is in minerals and other vital nutrients.
The term organic foods comes from the soil. I don't think it's related to the lack of pesticides, the asumption
of "there is no pesticide it's organic" is invalid , it has to do with what the soil contains, the nutrients. Second of all yes, if what we grow is free of pesticide then it;s better, but I would say the main factor for grown products is the soil, it is where the term organic food comes from.

Now Im thoroughly confused. The benefit of organic then is that it is less processed and therefore contains more nutrients?

i've been to on organic chicken farm. believe me, it looks exactly like an industrial chicken farm. the chickens are wallowing in their own filth in a giant warehouse.

people seem to confuse organic chickens with some wholesome farmer tenderly overlooking his chickens like some shepherd, while they happily live in the country eating and getting plump on what nature provides.

Nothing tastes better than local organically grown heirloom tomatoes. They are not anything like the ones in the store, but that is not why I eat organic food. I try to buy local as the food is fresher, and it does taste better.

However, I know many people who eat and buy organic food, as I volunteer at the local farmer's market, and no one I know has ever even mentioned eating organic food because it is more nutritious. People eat organic food because it do not contain harmful pesticides or it contains much less harmful pesticides, or because it is grown locally.

What I see is falling profits in the "regular" food industry, are leading to a massive push against buying local and organic, included the fun video with the comedians, seriously, who would listen to a comic when it comes to diet? Clowns. Sadly, many people will.

The major food producers are figuring out that in this recession, people have changed their buying habits, and now they do not know what to do, as this change is probably permanent. Consumers form habits that are hard to change, and many commercial foods are very overpriced. Organic and local is becoming cheaper all the time.

A box of unhealthy cereal that tastes like cardboard is almost five dollars, do you know how much produce that will buy at a local farmer's market, probably an entire bag full! Consumers have also switched to genereric food, but that is another topic.

Examples:

General Mills full-year EPS forecast below estimates-May 24, 2010
Source-Reuter's

General Mills 4Q profit climbs but outlook soft
General Mills says 4th-qtr profit rose, but higher costs will cut 2012 profit

"The last 12 months was a challenging period for the food industry and for General Mills," CEO Ken Powell told investors during a conference call Wednesday morning. "Input costs swung from deflationary to inflationary, and consumers in developed markets remained cautious in an economic environment where improvement seems slow at best."

Source

Rise in profits for Organic Food

The organic industry continues to grow worldwide. Here are some statistics regarding this burgeoning market. U.S. sales of organic food and beverages have grown from $1 billion in 1990 to $26.7 billion in 2010. Sales in 2010 represented 7.7 percent growth over 2009 sales. Experiencing the highest growth in sales during 2010 were organic fruits and vegetables, up 11.8 percent over 2009 sales Source: Organic Trade Association’s 2011 Organic Industry Survey Organic food and beverage sales represented approximately 4 percent of overall food and beverage sales in 2010. Leading were organic fruits and vegetables, now representing over 11 percent of all U.S. fruit and vegetable sales. Source: Organic Trade Association’s 2011 Organic Industry Survey

Organic Food Association Industry Statistics

This is only my unqualified opinion, and I know that others may say it is due to rising costs, and that is part of the reason, but the number do not lie. Organic food revenues are up. So expect more bad press.

Originally posted by gandhi
Is nature a scam? GMO products alter the basic make up of the fruit or vegetable, causing chain reactions at every stage in its growth, and in turn yours.

I dont understand why some of you poise GMO-foods as the opposite of organic-foods. Clearly there are plenty of non-organic foods that are not GM.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by newcovenant
I shudder to think of the day ...and it is on the horizon when we will no longer eat any of our food the way nature intended. I'll never have a decent peach again...I already know that.

I understand the sentiment. But after weighing all the information provided by you guys, Im even more skeptical.

A common belief seems to be that natural = better. But is it really? If that were so, Id exchange my house for living in a tree.

That makes no sense at all. To take your reasoning to its logical conclusion would mean we should all just eat dirt since the elements that make up plants are derived from the dirt and that would be thier more natural state.It is a proven fact that fresh foods are more nutritious and healthy for the body then processed foods. Fresh green beans are healthier and better tasting the canned green beans etc....

And by the way people do build houses that are healthier then the conventional houses that are synthetic and chemical laden etc. Using more natural materials even though they are processed to a certain degree. Do you think Fresh cheese is better for you then that processed stuff in the thin slices they claim is cheese even though it is only one molecule away from plastic?

Do you think gmo grain fed beef living in thier own feces is better for you then free range grass fed beef when it is proven grain fed cows promotes e-coli and of course living in thier own feces packed into feed lots is about as unhealthy as it gets. How about chickens raised in the dark fed a super growth GMO formula so they are ready in a month instead of the normal three months packed into darkened chicken houses living in thier own feces and can hardly walk because they are fattened up so fast their bones haven't developed enough to support thier weight. That is what you are buying in the market when you buy beef or chicken. Go to you tube and look up movie called Food Inc. and educate yourself what's happening to the food supply. You will never want to shop in a super market again!

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

I would say organic food is real, it's the soil first of all, how rich it is in minerals and other vital nutrients.
The term organic foods comes from the soil. I don't think it's related to the lack of pesticides, the asumption
of "there is no pesticide it's organic" is invalid , it has to do with what the soil contains, the nutrients. Second of all yes, if what we grow is free of pesticide then it;s better, but I would say the main factor for grown products is the soil, it is where the term organic food comes from.

Now Im thoroughly confused. The benefit of organic then is that it is less processed and therefore contains more nutrients?

It's the term for organic, it does not have to do anything with pesticide, if pesticide is added or not that is another story. It costs more because the soil costs more to enrich it with minerals, there for the soil is alive(organic) and out of the organic soil comes a better product, this then morphed with the anti pesticide trend because organic food was free of pesticide, not because non pesticide defines rich mineral soil but because it's how it got imaged for the narrow view of everyone. Think of the term organic and what it has to do with anything at all, and what organic really means, it has nothing to do with pesticide, it's simply the enrichment of the soil to produce a better product with more quality nutrients.

So I would say the organic product is not a scam at all, it is in fact a better product.
Regarding other things if it's not about soil and plants , I would say it's what you feed the product to grow, what you feed the fishes in the pound, what you feed the cow to give better milk.

Organic is natural in general, natural minerals, natural properties, something not man made and it does cost more, it is an expencive alternative to enrich the soil to produce better, all I see is people BSing around about pesticide when in fact it's about something else.

reply to post by pepsi78


Organic also means the soil is free of inorganic compounds such as pesticides and chemical fertilizers. So yes organic does mean pesticide free.

This issue is very similar to what happened to the American car industry. Some of you here may actually remember a time when we only had American cars. Many people still will only drive cars made by GM, or Ford. Who here remembers a Buick? Or an Oldsmobile.

For years there were articles and reports about how bad Japanese cars were-they were like lawnmowers, they were too small, they broke down and no one could repair them. In the beginning, this was true, but as the cars got better, people switched. No one listened to the press, they made decisions based on experience, and value.

The American car manufacturers could have been very competitive, and we would not all be driving Honda's, Toyota's, Subaru's and others. Everyone blames the unions, but the sales kept going down, while the companies got much bigger. Then they went into the finance business, because they could not sell as many cars and that was a complete disaster.

If we truly believe in the free market, the consumer will decide what food to buy. It will be interesting to see if this trend continues, like it did with the cars, or not.

Originally posted by hawkiye
educate yourself what's happening to the food supply. You will never want to shop in a super market again!

I think we can judge the merits of different foods by looking at what happens over time to the people who eat them.
So we look at, for example, what obese people tend to eat most, and avoid that. Or look at how life expectancy in Japan and Greece is high and then check what the people are eating there.

I have not yet looked at people who primarily eat organic food, but it would be interesting to see some long term studies and effects.

reply to post by hawkiye


To the best of my knowlege chemical ferilisers and pesticide are two things apart.
Chemical fertilisers are added for plant growth and pesticide is added to prevent the pests from eating the culture.

Yes organic fertiliser is the alternative to chemical fertiliser, but these two terms do not have anything in comun to pesticide, that is added for pest control, it has nothing to do with any of the two terms except of course that the two "chemical fertiliser" and " "pesticied" are chemicals. Pesticide is added regardless to prevent the crops from being damaged by bugs, it is a surface chemical than is washed away, I will not contradict you, it does make the product more toxic since some of the pesticide in some precentage will penetrate the skin of the plant, fruit, but the far more damage done is by the chemical fertiliser, it has things such as radioactive cobalt if you can imagine, but in very little quantities, also chemical acids that are oxides like nitrates.

If you can wash away the pesticide, with this stuff you can't do anything about it, since it's in the soil, the plant grows from it and develops from it, so you eat all that stuff that it's growing from. It has become a standard.
It's why organic food costs more, chemical fertiliser is cheap cheap cheap in comparing the price for organic soil enrichment.

reply to post by pepsi78


You can't get organic certified if you use chemical pesticides and contrary to popular belief the pesticides do not dissipate as claimed but can stay in the soil for years. It doesn't matter its purpose the point is it is inorganic and harmful and cannot be used of you want to claim your produce is organic.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by pepsi78

 

You can't get organic certified if you use chemical pesticides and contrary to popular belief the pesticides do not dissipate as claimed but can stay in the soil for years. It doesn't matter its purpose the point is it is inorganic and harmful and cannot be used of you want to claim your produce is organic.

Well that is an irony, because the term organic has to do with the soil, not what you spray on the plant but what you put in the soil. I suppose it's made to make the product spotless, more of a natural 100% product, but they can't pull this off on mass fields, can you imagine checking every night to see if there are bugs eating from your stuff. It can't be done, this stuff is growing indoors more than outdoors. It is not possible to verify every instance if bugs are eating out of your 1000 say plant culture. So how organic is it if it grows inside you would imagine, so the term artificial comes into mind if you grow it indoors. Not so organic ?

I presume pesticide is regardless if the product is from "organic soil" or not.