Abortion-trolls/instigators ignored

I found that

Freedom of choice, rape, blah blah blah .... everyone knows on some level that abortion is murder .. despite whatever rhetorical and moral acrobatics they use toconvince themselves otherwise.

But what are you gonna do, as long as society values immediate gratification as highly as it does the status quo is here to stay.

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by Kostas

 

What about a young woman having an unwanted pregnancy ...when she is impregnated by her father, grandfather, uncle or brother? What then? I think in those cases....abortion...would be mercy not only for the mother but for the unborn fetus.

And I agree, one day I hope people would just stop doing that, but there are cruel people. Then there are the cases like the woman convincing her husband to impregnate a 14 YO for welfare. She "consented" all that a 14 YO can consent, so would they abort or not abort?

Hypothetically, does the state have the right to abort a fetus that the rape victim doesn't want aborted, even if she is underage? This is the problem because there really are too many circumstances. This is one reason I would fear federalization of this issue... Too many what ifs

reply to post by Ariess


See? U found more info than you asked for.

That's another thing though, would this be state or federal? With so many circumstances, precedents could come out that made this idea terrible. And as soon as a " birth court" gets set up it could get dangerous. All of a sudden the state has jurisdiction over parts of your body. And since it would take proving a fetus is alive to license abortions, power over living things too. It could turn out to be a bigger debacle than the whole abortion debate

Not to mention if CPS was the last word on whether u get an abortion. People are angry enough with them as it is, and they can't make you get, or stop you from getting an abortion. Just imagine the incentive for a court like this to deny abortion of genuine struggling family living paycheck to paycheck just to get the child CPS'd later

Originally posted by Venomilk
reply to post by Ariess

 

See? U found more info than you asked for.

That's another thing though, would this be state or federal? With so many circumstances, precedents could come out that made this idea terrible. And as soon as a " birth court" gets set up it could get dangerous. All of a sudden the state has jurisdiction over parts of your body. And since it would take proving a fetus is alive to license abortions, power over living things too. It could turn out to be a bigger debacle than the whole abortion debate

Not to mention if CPS was the last word on whether u get an abortion. People are angry enough with them as it is, and they can't make you get, or stop you from getting an abortion. Just imagine the incentive for a court like this to deny abortion of genuine struggling family living paycheck to paycheck just to get the child CPS'd later

edit on 6-9-2011 by Venomilk because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-9-2011 by Venomilk because: (no reason given)

I would want it to be state. I don't think any laws, besides ones that deal with national security(blanket statement) should be legislated by the federal government. But no, as I said, I don't really see the point of making abortions illegal except for these circumstances. Not because, however, that it would give anybody jurisdiction over parts of your body. Though I could have misunderstood your statement, I will never agree that abortions and the right to do what you will with your own body have any connection. Making abortion illegal would leave the door open for a lot of corruption, and it would fail to address the real problem, in my eyes. This is of course that people are being executed before they have any chance at life. If anything I would want it to be illegal to preform abortions unless it is medically or psychologically(not so much but this is where raped women would fit) necessary. I don't think in any case, unless done by the would be mother, that having abortions should be illegal. But again, laws don't prevent crimes they just deal punishment for those crimes, which fails to address the point.

reply to post by Ariess


And you have a lot of good points. But do you see what it would take? Half believe it's murder, the other half don't, and there are shades of grey between the extremes. For some reason it will remain a deadlock. You can't touch it. It's like stem cells before we realized we didn't need dead babies. Political suicide.

I was actually just talking about the courts that would decide on abortion cases if this were to be a possible solution. Even small government people don't want interference from the courts on these kinds of issues, it's so personal. Moms will be mama bears if they get pushed too far. I think any women who have actually bonded with their child, they would die for their kid, bend over backwards.
Not even getting into child abuse allegations, CPS will make you pay thousands for probation if you spanking your child, even if they crossed that line they know they can't cross.

Politicians are even sketchy about those issues, do you think they could successfully convince the states to go along with this? Or even if there were some states where it was legal to abort, some only during rape, some completely illegal
But then federal is worse.....

So is it us that's the problem? Have we measured anything special at the exact moment of conception? Surely we have the tech. Even a private lab might be able to get something. But will they try if no matter what view they take on it, they will be lynched by thousands, praised by thousands more.

Is there a solution? I though I brought up an interesting one. You can abort a fetus and still birth it for adoption. Would that balance it and be a real compromise? There is no waste, life is created as it's supposed to. No courts, no determining a case based on circumstances. If there is no murder, if that's what it is, then this would be the best solution


And the bad part, is even though I believe there is a solution, and it's probably closer than we think, Its Like cancer..so many believe that there is a very simple answer that is right under our noses,but No funding for the research or testing until big pharma can package and prophit from it.
Sad but true. Someone complained about me chastising abortion thread enthusiasts, but I bet like clockwork a thread will pop up and the same old thing will happen, nobody will try to give solutions except illegal or legal, watch. If anyone reads this, there is a way to make both sides happy if we came together to do something like this.

Ultimately it's an individual choice to make and the individuals consequence to bear.
What I seriously would like to know is 'When will post birth abortion be considered legal'?

My view is that I don't like abortion, I don't believe in abortion, but I have to look at it pragmatically.

While the fetus is not viable, it is indeed human or at least a forming human, but it's not really what I would call alive. A non-viable fetus is really not much than a parasite, pragmatically speaking, and that means, to me anyway, it definitely has to be considered part of the woman's body until it becomes viable.

The other side of the coin is that I would rather the fetus be aborted when it has no nerves and no brain activity before it comes out and spend a life of misery. If a person doesn't want a child, forcing them to have a child does a disservice to the child and society. Yes, there's the possibility that we'll get another Einstein or Bach; much more likely we'll get another Manson or Hitler.