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IHOP Shooting: Multiple People Reportedly Shot In Carson City, Nevada

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posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33
There is a lot of unhinged people out there that can easily buy a gun. Gun violence would be zero if it was illegal for having one and harsh sentences for owning any. If everyone had guns it would make gun violence worse, bad enough people get in random fights with people they don't know last thing you need is them having guns to kill each other with.


Sure, you might think that, especially in a state like Nevada where we enjoy our freedoms, and often exercise them.

I live just a few short minutes away from Carson City, and people around here carry all the time, including myself when, and if, I choose to.

Yes, it's the same Carson City of the Morgan Silver Dollar fame... the old west, if you will, to an extent, only a more modern version.

By your reasoning, you'd think all the stories (many of which seem to come from non-Americans, who haven't really got a grasp on the way things work around here) would be true.

There'd be shoot-outs in the saloons every Friday, and the business of making coffins and undertaking would be good!

You could git you a saw, line them pine boxes up along the board-walk and strike it rich quicker 'n you could sip down a case o sassafras root.

Only problem for you is, there hasn't been a single homicide in Carson City in over three years.


Sheriff Ken Furlong says the Carson City IHOP shooting is the community's most devastating attack. There had not been a homicide there in more than three years


Now, I'm sure you've tip-toed around this conversation before, and any time a tragedy like this occurs you can't resist the urge to interject your opinion on the matter. What a better opportunity to force someone to be all pro-gun after such an event, by merely defending their rights. Must make you feel all fuzzy.

Still though, it only boils down to your opinion, which is open to change, and my 2nd Amendment rights aren't.

I do understand and respect it though, just as much as I enjoy our 1st Amendment rights to express my own.




posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by lernmore
 


The wording of that article is odd, other news sites are still carrying the story he was a Mexican citizen here on a US passport.

Is he or isn't he ? Its normally not this hard for the media to figure out someone's nationality. Something is off.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


It was pretty odd..it threw everybody for a loop. I had to dig for a while to confirm it, and at the 9am press conference the sheriff also verified that he is, indeed a U.S. citizen and has been for "quite some time".

Also, the ATF took charge of the three guns, and will be doing the mechanical tests and background checks. Unfortunately their "report" wasn't yet available as of this morning, so there's still no answer on the the question of semi or full auto.

How hard is it to answer the question reporters have been asking since minutes after the shooting?
edit on 7-9-2011 by lernmore because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by lernmore
 


I posted a link in the BAN forum in regards to a confirmation from Nevada's Joint Information Center saying the man was a Mexican national in the US on a valid passport, which contradicts the current story from the Sheriff.

This doesn't make any sense. Either someone is lying or uselessly ignorant.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


I saw the link. My guess is they got the original info from the exact same *local* press conference that we saw, and made the same mistake because of the sheriff's screwy wording.

You came to the same conclusion, I came to the same conclusion, both by watching the actual video as the words came out of his mouth.

He's had a valid commercial DL for 14 months, and a Nevada ID card since 1998 or thereabouts.
You don't get one of those without being a U.S. citizen, at least on the books.

I'm calling case closed on that chapter, but that's me.

RGJ got the passport info from the Feds, and the DL/ID info from state records.


edit on 7-9-2011 by lernmore because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
If you live in a society where someone can legally own an assault rifle, like the AK-47, then don't be surprised when people with personal problems - or who are just pissed off in general - go on a rampage shooting people indiscriminately.

These spree killings and rampage killings are hardly a rarity in the US, so I'm surprised they even still make the news over there. I'm sure the penny will eventually drop...


Of course nothing could be further from the truth. These types of killings are quite rare in the US and the Norway shooting spree where they have very strict gun prohibition proves prohibition does not prevent some crazy from doing what he wishes,

Doctors and cars kill far more people on a daily basis. Gun deaths are not even close. Also it is a fact that the states in the US that have the most liberal gun friendly laws have the lowest crime rates and are far safer then states like CA NY and DC who have the strictest gun prohibition laws yet far more gun crimes and crime period!



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by lernmore
 


From what I have looked up, a valid passport or visa can also get you a Nevada ID and driver's liscense.


Resident Alien Card or I-551 Receipt
Valid Foreign Passport stamped “Processed for I-551”
Arrival-Departure Record (I-94) with Visa or Passport

www.dmvnv.com...


If you were born outside of the United States, you must present the original or a certifi ed copy of one
of the following:
• Certifi cate of Naturalization
• Certifi cate of Citizenship
• Permanent Resident Card
• Temporary Resident Card
• Consular Report of Birth Abroad
• U.S. Passport
• Resident Alien Card or I-551 Receipt
• Valid Foreign Passport stamped “Processed for I-551”
• Arrival/Departure Record (I-94) with Visa or Passport
• Permit to Reenter the U.S.
• Refugee Travel Documents

Non U.S. Citizens

Nevada does not issue licenses or ID cards to tourists. Other Non U.S. citizens may, or may not, be eligible depending on their specific immigration status.

E-mail or call your local DMV office before applying for a license. Please include the Status Code issued by the U.S. Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services. The type of license or ID issued is determined by immigration status.

You must have one of the immigration documents listed above under Proof of Identity. Nevada does not accept foreign driver licenses, foreign birth certificates, matricular consular cards, border crossing cards or foreign passports without an I-94 Arrival-Departure Record.

www.dmvnv.com...
edit on 7/9/11 by MikeboydUS because: add



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


How he gained a driver's licence really doesn't even matter.

Again, this is local news to me since it's only a few miles away, and I watched the live 9am press conference on the "regular" digital HD this time.

The reporters were confused about the issue and asked again, and the sheriff in no confusing terms said "Yes, he is a U.S. citizen, and has been for quite a long time." They didn't ask the sheriff if he had a driver's license, they asked if he was a U.S. citizen.

There was absolutely no question whatsoever in his answer this time.

He IS a U.S. citizen... period.

Also, you have to provide proof of citizenship to even get a U.S. passport, I just checked... and he has one.

The other issue, is the bigger picture.

What would it really change anyway if he was here illegally, except offer fuel for some bill down the road to get the Feds to actually enforce the immigration laws, because we know they don't now.
edit on 7-9-2011 by lernmore because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by hawkiye
Of course nothing could be further from the truth. These types of killings are quite rare in the US


They certainly aren't ''rare'' when you compare the number of instances with other first-world countries.

Hardly a month goes by without someone in the USA shooting up their workplace, their school, their family, or just anybody unfortunate enough to be in the vicinity of the disturbed or emotionally volatile person with a legally owned firearm.


Originally posted by hawkiye
the Norway shooting spree where they have very strict gun prohibition proves prohibition does not prevent some crazy from doing what he wishes


Anders Behring Breivik legally owned the weapons which he used in the massacre on Utøya.


Hardly ''proof'' that gun prohibition doesn't severely limit the possibility of these occurrences taking place.

The only three mass shooting sprees in the UK, in Hungerford, Dunblane and Cumbria, all involved the perpetrator using legally owned weapons.

There have been no instances, to my knowledge, of any mass shooting incident in Britain where the firearms used were illegally held.


Originally posted by hawkiye
Doctors and cars kill far more people on a daily basis.


Doctors and cars save more people's lives on a daily basis than they kill. Nice try, but there's still a net benefit to having doctors and automobiles in society.


Originally posted by hawkiye
Gun deaths are not even close.


One person is murdered every 58 minutes by a gun in the US. One person is murdered every 8-9 days by a gun in the UK. Even factoring in the differences in population between the two countries, you are 40 times more likely to be shot dead in the US than you are in the UK.

The murder rates in Britain and the US - excluding those murders committed by firearms - are quite similar.

So, the old ''well, they just kill people with knives and bats, instead', argument, just doesn't wash.


Originally posted by hawkiye
Also it is a fact that the states in the US that have the most liberal gun friendly laws have the lowest crime rates and are far safer then states like CA NY and DC who have the strictest gun prohibition laws yet far more gun crimes and crime period!


That's not true. It's a not a fact, at all.

According to 2009 figures, the States with the highest number of firearms murders per capita, were Louisiana, Alabama, Maryland and Kansas.

The States with highest number of firearms robberies per capita, were Georgia, Tennessee, Nevada, Delaware and Louisiana.

The States with the highest number of firearm assaults per capita, were Tennessee, South Carolina, Louisiana, Kansas and Missouri.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but most of those States which were at the top end of the gun crime figures aren't exactly too keen on gun control.



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 08:55 PM
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They kept saying the suspect had never been arrested, but the truth is a little more complicated:

news.yahoo.com...
A man who opened fire at a Nevada pancake house, killing three National Guard soldiers and a civilian before shooting himself, was detained for mental health reasons over a decade ago, police said on Wednesday.
The man's family has cited mental illness as a possible factor in Tuesday's shooting rampage, which also wounded seven other people in what investigators said initially appeared to have been a random act of violence.
Eduardo Sencion, 32, had been taken into custody in South Lake Tahoe in 2000...

Another story had him fighting the police at the time of the 'detention,' which makes it even more likely that this was really an 'arrest,' in which no charges were brought or were dismissed.



posted on Sep, 9 2011 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 



Hardly a month goes by without someone in the USA shooting up their workplace, their school, their family, or just anybody unfortunate enough to be in the vicinity of the disturbed or emotionally volatile person with a legally owned firearm.


Prove it... You can't because it is anti-gun prohibitionist BS!


Anders Behring Breivik legally owned the weapons which he used in the massacre on Utøya


What the hell does that have to do with anything? The fact is it is much more restrictive to own guns there then in the US and it made no difference. If you think a criminal cannot get a weapon there if he wants you are naive.


Doctors and cars save more people's lives on a daily basis than they kill. Nice try, but there's still a net benefit to having doctors and automobiles in society.


And so do guns save far more lives then then they are used to kill, they also prevent more crime, but they kill far less then Doctors and cars! According to justive departments stats Armed citizens stop more crime then all law enforcment combined in the entire country. Also 97% of women who are armed when attacked thwart the attack and bring to justice the attacker or kill him. Almost exaclty the opposite is true for unarmed women 95% end up beaten raped or killed or all three. Which odds would you prefer for the women in your family? Also Guns win and preserve freedom so they are a net benefit to humanity!


One person is murdered every 58 minutes by a gun in the US


Compelete and utter BS!!! Prove it and I don't mean some marxist rag article find a real source! You can't because it is not true.


That's not true. It's a not a fact, at all.

According to 2009 figures, the States with the highest number of firearms murders per capita, were Louisiana, Alabama, Maryland and Kansas.

The States with highest number of firearms robberies per capita, were Georgia, Tennessee, Nevada, Delaware and Louisiana.

The States with the highest number of firearm assaults per capita, were Tennessee, South Carolina, Louisiana, Kansas and Missouri.


More BS. DC is the murder capital of the country. You need to provide a sources for that BS. Maryland and Lousiana arent exaclty gun friendly. I am not that familiar with the other states

Here are some real stats with sources like the FBI etc:


Atlanta

The oft-cited credo that more guns equal more crime is being tested by facts on the ground this year: Even as gun ownership has surged in the US in the past year, violent crime, including murder and robbery, has dropped steeply.

Add to that the fact that many experts had predicted higher crime rates as the US grinds through a difficult recession, and the discrepancy has advocates on both sides of the Second Amendment debate rushing to their ramparts.

After several years of crime rates holding relatively steady, the FBI is reporting that violent crimes – including gun crimes – dropped dramatically in the first six months of 2009, with murder down 10 percent across the US as a whole.

Concurrently, the FBI reports that gun sales – especially of assault-style rifles and handguns, two main targets of gun-control groups – are up at least 12 percent nationally since the election of President Obama, a dramatic run on guns prompted in part by so-far-unwarranted fears that Democrats in Congress and the White House will curtail gun rights and carve apart the Second Amendment.

Pro-gun groups jumped at the FBI report, saying it disproves a long-running theory posited by gun-control groups and many in the mainstream media that gun ownership spawns crime and violence. “Anti-gunners have lost another one of their baseless arguments,” Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, told the Examiner's Dave Workman. www.csmonitor.com...


FBI Report



posted on Sep, 9 2011 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 


And here is some more:

Major crime fell dramatically in states which have legalized the carrying of concealed handguns, according to a comprehensive study at the University of Chicago.

For the first time, researchers analyzed crime statistics for all 3,054 counties in the United Sates between 1977 and 1992, according to one of the authors of the unpublished study, Professor John Lott. After adjusting for a general fall in crime rates, the study found that:

In the 31 states that now have "concealed right to carry" laws, murders were down, on average, by 8.5 percent.

Rapes were down 5 percent and serious assaults by 7 percent.

In cities with populations of more than 250,000, murder rates dropped after the passage of such laws by an average of 13.5 percent.

According to the study, the fall in crime did not result from an increased use of guns, but from potential criminals avoiding confrontations. In fact, criminals apparently shifted to lower-risk offenses, since property crimes increased in those states. Other findings included:

The most dramatic falls in murder rates were in areas where the number of women carrying firearms was high.

The study found that for every woman who carries a concealed hand, the murder rate fell by three to four times more than it would have if one more man had carried a concealed gun.

If states with concealed handgun bans had allowed them in 1992, about 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes and more than 60,000 aggravated assaults would have been avoided.

In addition, the researchers found no evidence of an increase in accidental killings or suicides in states with concealed carry laws.

Sources: Ian Katz, "'Gun Law'Cuts Crime Rate, US Study Finds," Guardian, August 3, 1996, and Dennis Cauchon, "Study: Weapons Laws Deter Crime: Fewer Rapes, Murders Found Where Concealed Guns Legal," USA Today, August 2, 1996.
edit on 9-9-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I am really suprised that ATS is not all over this story.

Where did the guy get a fully automatic AK-47?

Why did he target people in military uniforms?

Is he an illegal immigrant?

These are the kind of questions ATS members usually ask and find the answers for, but today members seem to be slow or distracted by garbage. Maybe it will pick up tommorow hopefully.


These are the questions i want answered.



posted on Sep, 9 2011 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by hawkiye
Of course nothing could be further from the truth. These types of killings are quite rare in the US


They certainly aren't ''rare'' when you compare the number of instances with other first-world countries.

Hardly a month goes by without someone in the USA shooting up their workplace, their school, their family, or just anybody unfortunate enough to be in the vicinity of the disturbed or emotionally volatile person with a legally owned firearm.


Originally posted by hawkiye
the Norway shooting spree where they have very strict gun prohibition proves prohibition does not prevent some crazy from doing what he wishes


I completely agree with you. When the norway gunman recently killed all those people ,I was extremely shocked to hear a shooting happened outside of america. And you cant go very long without one happening.

Anders Behring Breivik legally owned the weapons which he used in the massacre on Utøya.


Hardly ''proof'' that gun prohibition doesn't severely limit the possibility of these occurrences taking place.

The only three mass shooting sprees in the UK, in Hungerford, Dunblane and Cumbria, all involved the perpetrator using legally owned weapons.

There have been no instances, to my knowledge, of any mass shooting incident in Britain where the firearms used were illegally held.


Originally posted by hawkiye
Doctors and cars kill far more people on a daily basis.


Doctors and cars save more people's lives on a daily basis than they kill. Nice try, but there's still a net benefit to having doctors and automobiles in society.


Originally posted by hawkiye
Gun deaths are not even close.


One person is murdered every 58 minutes by a gun in the US. One person is murdered every 8-9 days by a gun in the UK. Even factoring in the differences in population between the two countries, you are 40 times more likely to be shot dead in the US than you are in the UK.

The murder rates in Britain and the US - excluding those murders committed by firearms - are quite similar.

So, the old ''well, they just kill people with knives and bats, instead', argument, just doesn't wash.


Originally posted by hawkiye
Also it is a fact that the states in the US that have the most liberal gun friendly laws have the lowest crime rates and are far safer then states like CA NY and DC who have the strictest gun prohibition laws yet far more gun crimes and crime period!


That's not true. It's a not a fact, at all.

According to 2009 figures, the States with the highest number of firearms murders per capita, were Louisiana, Alabama, Maryland and Kansas.

The States with highest number of firearms robberies per capita, were Georgia, Tennessee, Nevada, Delaware and Louisiana.

The States with the highest number of firearm assaults per capita, were Tennessee, South Carolina, Louisiana, Kansas and Missouri.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but most of those States which were at the top end of the gun crime figures aren't exactly too keen on gun control.




posted on Sep, 10 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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The question on everybody's lips is "were any of these weapons "Operation Fast and Furious" weapons?"

Interestingly, many of the weapons involved in that BATFE op were Romarm/Cugir GP-WASR 10/63 UF Rifles, the Romanian-made version of the AK-47, identical to the weapon seized at the crime scene.  There are apparently plenty of these weapons now floating around:

www.abc15.com...
"The ABC15 Investigators have linked an additional 43 weapons recovered during a Phoenix traffic stop to the controversial Fast and Furious ATF case. ....
Four of the suspects are listed as undocumented immigrants. The fifth suspect had been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa, according to court documents."

If it eventually turns out that Sencion's guns were originally from the BATFE op, then there is a possibility this guy was a Manchurian Candidate activated for no other reason than to cause serious problems for Obama's justice department, perhaps as part of a power struggle amongst elitist factions.  Or merely as something to hold over the administration, as some sort of a bargaining chip.



posted on Sep, 16 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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These kinds of shooters always leave lots of extra guns, ammo, etc., in their autos and domiciles, to make sure and implicate themselves and seal their guilt in the public mind:


www.nevadaappeal.com...

Found in the vehicle at the shooting scene:

--16 AK47 magazines with live rounds and a black gun case containing one loaded magazine and (an) AK47

--Glock 9mm pistol, loaded Glock magazines


From his home:

--dozens of rounds of ammunition

--a bulletproof vest

--a religious book containing a written annotation, “7/22/2012 End of”

--a shotgun

--two BB guns

--receipts for weapons and for gasoline that was purchased the day before the shooting

--gun parts

--five passports

--videotapes related to guns

-----------

Five Passports? Why would they seize the legitimate passports of his relatives? I doubt they would. So what kind of passports were these? US, Mexican? In whose name? If these were forged or stolen passports it might indicate greater criminal activity on the part of Sencion or his relatives.


/



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by starviego
www.dailymail.co.uk...
Sheriff Furlong said there were concerns at the outset that the gunman was not working alone
(What information did they have to that effect?)


A new media report had this interesting observation:

www.mynews4.com...
But for a time, authorities thought there was a second gunman on the loose within two miles of the state capitol building and the state DMV headquarters where hundreds of employees and customers were gathered.

Now why exactly did they think this? Based on witness reports? Warnings by police? They are just not giving us the full story.

/



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 11:31 PM
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Removed at Member request
edit on 12/16/2011 by semperfortis because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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Here's a thought. Maybe there was no second suspect. Maybe there were just a few fake anonymous 'reports' of someone running around with a gun. Just like the screens of the air traffic controllers were filled with fake hijacked aircraft on 9/11 because of the various 'drills' they were running that day. This would of course have diverted police first responders on a wild goose chase, allowing the shooter at the IHOP to operate with a freer hand.




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