Police brutality: Teen tased in the head

reply to post by ColoradoJens

The taser is the new hand. What once was used to grab someone now just pulls a trigger.

The tazer has been proven to do less permanent damage to someone than a police officer's hands can potentially do.

That is not to say that tazers should be used in situations like this. The officer should clearly have just attempted to grab the child. If the officer could not catch her for running away from her mother, she should have been allowed to escape. Hunger, cold and a general lack of the amenities most children are provided in our society would have made it only a matter of time before she returned home.

But back to tazers, an officer striking someone with a fist or baton has much more potential and chance to cause serious and/or permanent damage. It has been proven, scientifically, that the tazer's effects alone are not lethal. All of the cases you have heard in which someone has died as the result of being "tazed" were caused by some other circumstance like being under the influence of drugs, or having some underlying medical problem that was not immediately apparent.

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

The taser is the new hand. What once was used to grab someone now just pulls a trigger.

The tazer has been proven to do less permanent damage to someone than a police officer's hands can potentially do.

That is not to say that tazers should be used in situations like this. The officer should clearly have just attempted to grab the child. If the officer could not catch her for running away from her mother, she should have been allowed to escape. Hunger, cold and a general lack of the amenities most children are provided in our society would have made it only a matter of time before she returned home.

But back to tazers, an officer striking someone with a fist or baton has much more potential and chance to cause serious and/or permanent damage. It has been proven, scientifically, that the tazer's effects alone are not lethal. All of the cases you have heard in which someone has died as the result of being "tazed" were caused by some other circumstance like being under the influence of drugs, or having some underlying medical problem that was not immediately apparent.

I would think the fact that tasers are now routinely used when children get out of hand would say that there is simple overuse and it is becomming more common.

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens

I would think the fact that tasers are now routinely used when children get out of hand would say that there is simple overuse and it is becomming more common.

Where are you getting that it is fact that tazers are now routinely used when children get out of hand?

Please demonstrate how this is a fact.

Originally posted by areyouserious2010
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

I would think the fact that tasers are now routinely used when children get out of hand would say that there is simple overuse and it is becomming more common.

Where are you getting that it is fact that tazers are now routinely used when children get out of hand?

Please demonstrate how this is a fact.

Ok. Well, the use of tasers on children has been ok'd, yes? So why not? There are many cases out there. And referring to taser deaths, here are some more facts:

In sum, tasers pose some grave risks that warrant significant research and study. Not enough is known about the risks of taser use to children, the elderly, pregnant
women, or those under the influence of drugs. From what little scientific research exists,
it appears that prolonged and/or multiple use of a taser dramatically increases the risk of
ventricular fibrillation and consequent cardiac arrest, even in healthy adults. In addition,
there appears to be a risk of vision impairment if a subjected is tasered in the eye, and of
seizure if a subject is tasered in the head. It is unclear whether there are medical risks
associated with the barbs that are left in a subject’s body once the probes are removed.
There also appear to be permanent, if not fatal, dermatological impairments associated
with the use of a taser in stun mode.

Stanford Law pdf

Regarding tasers stopping violence:

The report, which the ACLU of Arizona claims is the “most comprehensive survey of Taser use by law enforcement agencies in Arizona to date,” illuminates the following key findings: Tasers are widespread among law enforcement, providing officers with Tasers does not guarantee lower levels of use of lethal force, officers often receive inconsistent guidance on when it’s appropriate to use a Taser, agencies lack clear guidance on Taser safety including the use of Tasers against vulnerable populations, law enforcement is too reliant on TASER International for training and agencies lack data collection and other mechanisms for monitoring Taser use.

REPORT< br />
Tasers for use on children as policy:

Daily Mail

There are so many crazy stories out there:

"About two weeks earlier, a first-grader was shot with a Taser at school when he threatened to cut his leg with a piece of broken glass, authorities said. The boy's family said he vomited after the jolt.

"If there's three officers, it's nothing to tell a 6-year-old holding a glass, if you feel threatened, 'Hey, here's a piece of candy, hey, here's a toy. Let the glass go,'" the boy's mother told CNN.

But police insisted using the gun was the only option.

Children tased

11 yr old tased

10 year old





the list goes on and on and on...

CJ

reply to post by areyouserious2010


I thought I would continue...

Autistic and 12 = tase him
10 year old
7 years old
Those pesky special needs kids get blasted
6 year old dead - shaky source

eleven in atlanta - what a time of lifzzzz
12,13,an 14, where was 15? He could run the fastest
just dumb ones (the cops)
slap and taze!

Just a few in 15 minutes of looking. Seems like it is happening more than one may imagine?

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Ok, allow me to use your logic in another fashion.

Based on your line of thinking, it must be common practice for doctors to perform the wrong surgury on their patients. Here are some news articles proving that it is a fact that doctors are performing the wrong surgery on patients more often.
Surgery on Wrong Eye of 4 Year Old
Doctor Confuses Patients and Removes Woman's Ovaries
Hospital Performs Surgery on Wrong Side of Brain for Third Time
The list goes on and on.

Well with all of this evidence, it must be common practice for doctors to make these sorts of mistakes.

To tell the truth, it's not. Your line of logic is hardly a scientific study. You can find a news article, possibly several, that will say that something happens. It is hardly academic to post a few news articles and say that because it happens and it is in the news it is common place.

I will provide you with a study that academically tracks the numbers. It was a report to the Department of Justice, from a medical team at Wake Forest University, tracking the useage and effects of taser deployment over 36 months in 6 metropolitan police departments.
Study PDF
Here are a few snippets.

Results: Conducted electrical weapons were used against 1,201 subjects during 36 months. One thousand one
hundred twenty-five subjects (94%) were men; the median age was 30 years (range 13 to 80 years). Mild or no
injuries were observed after conducted electrical weapon use in 1,198 subjects (99.75%; 95% confidence
interval 99.3% to 99.9%). Of mild injuries, 83% were superficial puncture wounds from conducted electrical
weapon probes. Significant injuries occurred in 3 subjects (0.25%; 95% confidence interval 0.07% to 0.7%),
including 2 intracranial injuries from falls and 1 case of rhabdomyolysis. Two subjects died in police custody;
medical examiners did not find conducted electrical weapon use to be causal or contributory in either case.

The median age was 30 years.

The results.

Conclusion: To our knowledge, these findings represent the first large, independent, multicenter study of
conducted electrical weapon injury epidemiology and suggest that more than 99% of subjects do not experience
significant injuries after conducted electrical weapon use. [Ann Emerg Med. 2008;xx:xxx.]

99% of the subjects did not experience significant injuries. I can assure you that the percentage of subjects who did not experience significant injuries was much lower than 99% when other means of force were used (i.e. hand to hand combat or the use of a baton).

Have police officers used tasers on children?
Yes, it has happened.

Is it common place for an officer to use a taser on a child?
No, the statistics do not show that children are the primary targets for tasers.

Were they wrong to use the taser on a child?
That needs to be assessed on a case by case basis.

Should police officers have a blank check to use tasers whenever they want, child or not?
No, constant revisitation and revision of department policy should act as a guide so police officers are conservative when it comes to their use of a taser on anyone.

Are there many misconceptions about tasers, how they operate and their effects?
Yes, and these misconceptions are what is primarily driving people's cause for concern when it comes to tasers.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Autistic and 12 = tase him / Appears to have happened Sept 2008

10 year old / Appears to link to the same article about the 12 year old above

7 years old / Appears to have happened May or June 2010

Those pesky special needs kids get blasted / Appears to be some sort of demonstration put on by the school

6 year old dead - shaky source / If its a shaky source why did you post it? Appears it happened Oct 2004

eleven in atlanta - what a time of lifzzzz / Appears to have happened Nov 2006

12,13,an 14, where was 15? He could run the fastest / Appears to be same as demonstration in school above

just dumb ones (the cops) / Appears to be another demonstration put on by school

slap and taze! / Appears to have happened around March 2010

So we have Oct 2004 through May or June 2010. We have nine total incidents. One incident is unverified because the link provided goes back to the previous article. Three of the incidents appear to be demonstration put on by a school. These cannot be considered because the police department was requested and supervised by the school to demonstrate the taser.

That leaves us with five total incidents of police officers using a taser on a child in an actual situation. So we have five incidents over a little more than five years?

Now I know you have not provided us with all of the incidents where children have been tasered by the police. But when put in this perspective, what you have provided is very little evidence of anything at all.

parents calling cops to deal with their kids seems like a path to avoid. and seriously, crack the lil snips over the ass or upside their head if all else fails. wtf is wrong with people?

reply to post by areyouserious2010


Comparing the use of tasers to doctors making mistakes in surgery is not accurate. For one, the doc is gonna get sued. That's why he has malpractice insurance.

The fact is, as I linked and stated above, the use of tasers is now acceptable practice ie ubiquitous within the police departments. When it is policy, it is going to create more situations.

Like I mentioned, I causually took your offer and posted what I found in a few minutes...not sure what an incident from three years ago listed within doesn't prove...it is what it is...cops tasing kids.

Twenty years ago, this would never have been read in a paper:

Some school administrators have welcomed the device as a disciplinary tool. In Franklin County, a school resource officer arrested a teenage girl, tasing her multiple times. When witnesses went to the
media to object, claiming the girl offered no aggression towards the officer, the Principal of Bunn
High defended the officer’s actions, saying that TASERs could be used on students whenever “they
did not obey a specific rule.”15

According to court records, police in Apex, North Carolina, threatened a 16-year-old boy with a TASER after he allegedly used profanity on school grounds.16

I think the fact is they are being used more and more.

aclu

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens

Comparing the use of tasers to doctors making mistakes in surgery is not accurate. For one, the doc is gonna get sued. That's why he has malpractice insurance.

Police Departments get sued all the time. If the use of the taser was out of policy or excessive, the police department will pay the judgement.

The fact is, as I linked and stated above, the use of tasers is now acceptable practice ie ubiquitous within the police departments. When it is policy, it is going to create more situations.

Yes, the use of tasers is acceptable practice in certain situations that follow the policy of that police department. That is why police departments have policies on these things. To try to control when tasers can and cannot be deployed.

Like I mentioned, I causually took your offer and posted what I found in a few minutes...not sure what an incident from three years ago listed within doesn't prove...it is what it is...cops tasing kids.

You tried to make the argument that using a taser on a child is becoming common place for police officers. I argued that just because it happened does not mean that it is common place.

Twenty years ago, this would never have been read in a paper:

Some school administrators have welcomed the device as a disciplinary tool. In Franklin County, a school resource officer arrested a teenage girl, tasing her multiple times. When witnesses went to the
media to object, claiming the girl offered no aggression towards the officer, the Principal of Bunn
High defended the officer’s actions, saying that TASERs could be used on students whenever “they
did not obey a specific rule.

According to court records, police in Apex, North Carolina, threatened a 16-year-old boy with a TASER after he allegedly used profanity on school grounds.16

First of all, without knowing exactly what occurred, we cannot make an appraisal on the officer's use of the taser.

Second of all, the opinion of Principal Bunn, that tasers could be used on students whenever they did not obey a specific rule, should hardly be taken as the policy of the POLICE DEPARTMENT. It is the opinion of the Principal.

Third, threatening someone with a taser and using a taser are two completely different things.

I hope he gets fired

or worse, put in jail >

reply to post by areyouserious2010

Improper discharge of a weapon? I would agree with that. Not because of where the probe hit her but because of WHY he discharged the tazer.

The accuracy of a handgun and the accuracy of a tazer are two completely different subject.

During a stress reaction, a police officer's accuracy with a handgun can drop as much as 50%. This is merely due to the physiological response of the body when put under stress and confronted with a threat.

In my original reply I was really ignoring the facts pertaining to the circumstances around the discharge, and also the girls age.

Regarding the officers weapon discharge. If they know that their accuracy is minimal with a tazer, and less so while running, it should not be discharged at all. I'm not even sure how safe it is to have a person with momentum go crashing to the ground...

If you are in a bar fight, punch someone, and they fall cracking their skull... die... well, you get charged with manslaughter.

This case, forgetting the circumstances and the age of the girl, the officer acted completely irresponsibly. Factor in the age and the circumstances, and it just makes you go

reply to post by boncho


Se me salto?

CJ