Sheriff's entered my home

reply to post by IamCorrect


I am utterly exhausted and frankly a bit drunk at this point. I will continue this conversation with you later today and I appreciate your opinions. I think that you may have misunderstood what I was saying once or twice, and that I was not clear enough on a number of occasions. Before I go I will say this; using exigent circumstances (lying and saying a woman was screaming inside of a crack house to gain entry) was something that professors discouraged us from ever doing. It was also implied that many in law enforcement would use this to gain entry unlawfully because it was 'the right thing to do'. Frankly, only having to say that you heard a person inside screaming for help IS a free pass.

Originally posted by Kicking2bears
And then like every other law enforcement officer I've ever met they turned coward and spoke the first BS excuse that came to mind.

I hate it when they do stuff like this. But remember, all cops are cowards at heart. and there is a good reason for that...

You haven't seen much of the world, have you?

To make a statement like "all cops are cowards at heart" on an internet message board is, irony of ironies, one of the most cowardly statements an individual can make. The vast majority of LEOs are good men & women who put their asses in the center sights of this country's true cowards, criminal bastards who would shoot you between the eyes for the $5 bill in your wallet and the iPod on your belt in a heartbeat. Sorry, I've seen enough of the world and heard enough people make broadly painted anti-police statements to recognize whose wearing the real yellow streak down their backs... and it isn't the guys wearing the badges.

reply to post by MoosKept240


Why would you have ANY door open at 4:00 am ?

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by Kicking2bears
And then like every other law enforcement officer I've ever met they turned coward and spoke the first BS excuse that came to mind.

I hate it when they do stuff like this. But remember, all cops are cowards at heart. and there is a good reason for that...

You haven't seen much of the world, have you?

To make a statement like "all cops are cowards at heart" on an internet message board is, irony of ironies, one of the most cowardly statements an individual can make. The vast majority of LEOs are good men & women who put their asses in the center sights of this country's true cowards, criminal bastards who would shoot you between the eyes for the $5 bill in your wallet and the iPod on your belt in a heartbeat. Sorry, I've seen enough of the world and heard enough people make broadly painted anti-police statements to recognize whose wearing the real yellow streak down their backs... and it isn't the guys wearing the badges.

So nice everyone should read it twice. I'd also like to know what the 'good reason for that' is. I am so tired of the anti cop hysteria on this site. I'd be willing to bet that your average LEO has a higher education, stronger moral fiber and more restraint than EVERY single cop hater on this board.

Originally posted by highpriestess
reply to post by IamCorrect

 

actually, i am not incorrect.

Well, I'm not going to continue to argue about it in a general sense because I would just be repeating what I wrote earlier. I will only respond to particular points below.

if a door appears to be pried open or smashed in they MAY very much so enter your residence to ensure that no one is injured. they do have to announce themselves and clearly identify themselves as a police officer as they are entering. all they have to have is a reasonable suspicion that a crime is currently being committed. a kicked in or pried open door (albeit, the garage door is questionable - but say, if it were your front door...) is plenty reasonable suspicion. it is your word against theirs later in court as to whether they felt that a life was in danger. and that, my friend, can qualify as "exigent circumstances" - they may NOT, however, start digging through drawers or cabinets, etc... they may only secure the premises and make sure that no one is injured, etc. keeping someone from destroying evidence also falls under "exigent circumstances."

I've already addressed all of this.

also, if an officer is walking past your place and can clearly see in the window that a crime is being committed, such as you are sitting there doing drugs in "plain view," on your own couch in your own home, they may enter immediately, without a warrant.

What you're talking about in the second paragraph is called the "plain view doctrine", and it's going beyond the scope of the original discussion. But suffice to say, you haven't accurately explained the plain view doctrine and when it would allow police to enter. That's wrong. The plain view doctrine could sometimes lead to exigent circumstances that might allow entry; it would depend on the details. But 'generally' speaking, it does not. The same conditions as I outlined earlier for exigent circumstances apply.

[....]

ETA again: IAMCORRECT: you should be VERY careful giving out legal advice, especially on this subject.

I haven't given out any legal advice. I'd have to check, but I'm not sure I've even directly responded to the original poster at all. It might help if you learned what is actually considered "legal advice." Having a discussion with other people about when police may legally enter a home or not is not "legal advice."

there IS a reason why giving out legal advice without a license to practice law is called "unauthorized practice of law" and is actually a crime. do you have a state bar number? or at the very least a J.D.?

What exactly makes the nature of I wrote different from yours, and thus illegal? It must be because what I wrote doesn't agree with what you wrote? I don't need a degree in law to write about legal scenarios anymore than I need a degree in astronomy to discuss a comet. There was no legal advice or practice of law.

Originally posted by highpriestess

Originally posted by IamCorrect

And from a prosecutorial standpoint:

are you a prosecutor or district attorney? i am unclear on this, you seem as though you are speaking as if you are giving your standpoint... or is this cut and pasted from elsewhere? just looking for clarification on this...

The problem isn't with me, it's with your level of reading comprehension. Where I write "from a prosecutorial standpoint", it does not suggest that I am a prosecutor. You'll have to forgive me if I don't read or respond to more posts of yours, but I wish you well.

reply to post by MoosKept240




They may have been imitation coppers.

If u need a security system, u2u me. Looks like you might.

reply to post by MoosKept240


Don't be fooled by their explaination; they just want you to know they can enter your home any time of the day or night and question you for anything for any reason.

Did your flatmate bother to ask for their Police ID?

Your flatmate was under no obligation to answer any questions if they have entered your property unlawfully and without a warrant.

were the officers let inside your property by your roommate? if so you must be a sound sleeper to ignore some meathead pounding on your door saying "police officers - open up"

here in the uk one police force went around trying doors during the night to remind people to lock them due to a spate of burgularies

if in doubt always tape a shotgun to the table and point it at the door and rig up some wiring so if anyone enters via that door they get both barrels of love (just remember not to activate it until everyone who should be inside is inside)

reply to post by MoosKept240
Maybe they were the ones robbing peoples houses dressed as cops, in case they get caught? Then they would just give people the explanation that they were just checking because their door was open.. Maybe thats why your roommates got the impression that they are rookies and the other maybe played hes part better..
Did they ask to see their badges? Maybe they have fake badges.
Cops shoudnt enter houses on that basis..

After hearing about one of my neighbor couples being tied up and tortured all night by home invaders on meth, I would count myself very lucky they bothered to come in and check things out and make sure everyone was safe.

That took a lot of guts for them to do, and 50% would have locked the door and/or just kept driving.

Whole world is nuts these days, and they dont tell you all of the violent crime going on all around you because they have no funding to keep it in check.

reply to post by MoosKept240


If someone opens the door and they enter and the person does not stop them by requesting a warrant that is within their rights. Never answer the door. They can't break in unless they see something illegal like a bong or a body. Whenever I see paraphernalia or anything at all illegal in plain sight at someones house or in their car I try to remind them since my friends are not bad but not all angels either...I hold up the contraband and shake it angrily in their face.

"Do you know what this is????"
Hanging out right here, where you can see it, from the door or this window????"



"REASONABLE CAUSE."

It gives a cop the legal right to break in and search your car, your home, your person.

Originally posted by protoaz
reply to post by gabby2011

 

Really?? just like cops have no reason to approach you at all at 3 am in the morning if your messing under the hood of your car? Right, sure thing. If you had nothing to hide you would not mind it at all if they were checking to make sure you were not jacking a car. I absolutely love that idea! It is people like you who complain and wonder where they were, or why they did not do anything in situations described in this thread. Its all called probable cause... and if its out of place and odd timing, yes they can and will do these things.

So a store leaves there door open accidentally at night and the cops should just drive by like "meh... lets go get some donuts.. everything has to be cool there"? Should the store owner press charges for trespassing if they did enter? (would get thrown out in an instant) Nothing to see here move along... it is perfectly normal for people to leave access to their homes in the middle of the night... sorry how wrong of us law enforcement to encroach on your civil rights for mere protection.

Protoaz,

Cop or not, if you tresspass on my property and enter my house in the middle of the night, without proper identification, or proper notice, I will be shooting you and aiming lethally. I will ask questions later.

You have no right to break the law....and I have every right to defend my property, and my CCW states i have a "right to kill" if I FEEL I am threatened, and I do not have to provide notice first. So, hopefully for your Rambo attitude, I hope you dont live near me, and try that #. You will be in the newspaper fast, and your family members will have their names in the paper as survivers.

reply to post by IamCorrect


i know what the "plain view doctrine" is - i went to law school, i thought i made that clear. what i asked was if YOU did.

Originally posted by Domo1

So nice everyone should read it twice. I'd also like to know what the 'good reason for that' is. I am so tired of the anti cop hysteria on this site. I'd be willing to bet that your average LEO has a higher education, stronger moral fiber and more restraint than EVERY single cop hater on this board.

i agree with this, and with the post you are replying to i come down on cops because i know how much corruption is out there in the police departments - after all i used to defend those corrupt cops in a court of law. most notably, i worked for the Dallas City Attorney's office on the civil suits that arose from the "fake drug scandal" (however, i represented the city and not the two individual officers, De La Paz and Herrera): en.wikipedia.org...(Texas)#Fake_drug_scandal

i do agree that there are still some good officers out there, but i also know that the way the police are trained and used now is not always about public safety - it is about generating revenue for the city. and that's a fact, jack. -- if you are on the side of the highway, broke down in your vehicle, nine times out of ten, a cop who stops to "help" you - will also ask for your ID, run you through the computer, etc. - this is digging for something, a fishing expedition. and what had you done wrong? your car broke down? it is hardly fair. but it is how it is now. back in the 70's and prior to that, they would stop and help and shake your hand and treat you like a citizen in need. now everyone is treated like a potential criminal. this, to me, shakes up the whole innocent until proven guilty standard. you are seen as guilty until they check you out and prove you are a-ok. all in the name of money. fines. restitution. all the classes you have to pay for while on probation. probation fees. - it HAS become a racket. and i have experienced it from the inside, this is why i have this opinion.

i must also say, without giving out too many personal details of myself, that my father was a police officer in Houston, Texas and he was shot and killed in the line of duty in the 70's. - so anyone saying that i have no respect for cops or what have you... really... you have NO IDEA.

Originally posted by newcovenant

If someone opens the door and they enter and the person does not stop them by requesting a warrant that is within their rights. Never answer the door. They can't break in unless they see something illegal like a bong or a body.

They can't legally break in if they think they see contraband. They would have to seek a warrant based on probable cause. However, if something illegal were in plain view sitting by a window at a close distance and an officer walked by on the sidewalk and determined that it was probably contraband, he might be able to justifiably enter without a warrant where exigent circumstances are created. For example, say someone in the house walked up to the window where the illegal object was and saw the officer staring at it from the sidewalk. The person in the house then appears to freak out and grabs the object and dashes away out of sight. That may arguably give rise to exigent circumstances allowing legal entry due to fear of imminent destruction of evidence.

"REASONABLE CAUSE."

It gives a cop the legal right to break in and search your car, your home, your person.

Nope; and it's "probable cause", not "reasonable cause." I'm not going to get into searches of car and person outside the home (it's beyond the scope of the current discussion), but with regard to one's home, a warrant is needed to enter based on probable cause unless they have consent from the resident or exigent circumstances exist.

Originally posted by IamCorrect

or exigent circumstances exist.

edit on 5-9-2011 by IamCorrect because: (no reason given)

i think you and i both agree on how the law is written and what the meaning of it is, but where we split is in the actual application. what i am trying to say is that "exigent circumstances" is decided by the officer, on the scene. later, in court, those circumstances may be decided to be incorrect, i will give you that. But the truth and reality of the matter is if you don't have the money to fight it in court, then you are SOL. If you end up with either a court appointed attorney or public defender (that varies from state to state) then you are still pretty much SOL - most appointed attorneys only care about getting a quick deal and getting your file off their desk just as quickly as it got there. they are only representing you because their name is on a mandatory appointment list. the fee they are getting isn't enough to actually FIGHT for you in court, it isn't anywhere near what their normal hourly fee would be. Occasionally, you will get the attorney who cares more about his "win list" more than money and will rep you vigorously and even more rarely you will get one who actually cares about YOU. but I wouldn't hold my breath. and Public Defenders work for the state. they get paid a salary. win or lose they still get paid the same. and again, i cannot emphasize enough, they work for the state. they work for the same employer as the prosecutor. :- ...

aside from all that, the officer themselves stick together. it is a brotherhood. they will, and do, lie for eachother. they will and do create exigent circumstances where they may not really exist. they are not ALL like this, but there ARE a lot who are like this. if you have a cop who fabricates circumstances and you have three other cops who back his story up... then i am sorry, but your word doesn't mean crapola.

i think you are more talking about how the actual law is written and what it means, etc... and i am talking about how the law is twisted, exploited, and used in the field. you cannot stop a cop from entering, you cannot stop them from arresting you. all you can do is fight them in court later. but if you dont have the money to do that, then what? your fairy godmother appears and forces the court to act on your behalf? it doesn't work that way. they still get many convictions and suck many people in to the system because they can't afford to fight, they take a deal because they have no choice. ad the ones who do fight and win are so few and far between it doesn't matter. when you throw out a net and catch 50 fish, what do you really care if two or three get loose from the net? do you see what i am saying now?

Have you checked to see if they were real cops?

Even if they were, unless they were invited in, or unless they had a warrant, they were trespassing.

Regardinf the law aspect of this, if I was you, I'd have a watch of Dean Clifford's videos on youtube.

oh and i should add: what i meant regarding if the door is pried open they can use that as exigent circumstances and enter to make sure there is no one being injured, etc. in this situation, what would happen is you would fight that in court, and the prosecution would have the cop testify that he felt he had exigent circumstances and acted in a reasonable and prudent manner. THEN the prosecutor would get fifty other cops to come and testify that in the same circumstances they would have made the same decision. and at that point, you would need to get your own experts (law enforcement) to refute that. and goooood luck. lol. first of all, expert witnesses get paid, and they aren't cheap... and that doesn't even include alllll of the billed hours of work your attorney would charge you. it is VERY expensive to fight the system.

ETA: attorney billing: every phone call is billed at .25 hours. - 15 minute billing increments. and the hourly rate, depending on where you live and the level of experience your attorney has can be anywhere from $175 per hour to $350 or $400 per hour. now YOU do the math. and most attorneys require a pretty good retainer up front. usually $3,500 and up, depending on the type of case. so you have to have that chunk of change to even HIRE an attorney. this is why people end up taking deals. you pay an attorney to get you the best deal he can get you, that you can afford to buy. i know... it is sick, but it is true. and no hard feelings, IAMCORRECT, i am not trying to argue with you or razz you or anything. i just... you know... this is what i do for a living. all those articles on google that you find and quote, i am actually qualified, though education and experience, to WRITE those articles. know what i mean?