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"We Create" & "We are Created"

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posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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ATS philosophy and Metaphysics "We Create" & "We are Created"

Hi all,

I would like to start by explaining that this theory is not my belief or opinion it is just combining two theories. i will not and can not provide any sources it is not needed as it is just theorizing. As it is my understanding that we are not capable (or needed) in this form of life to perceive "the truth" or the Totality, it would be illogical to focus on one theory (however extended in history as well as quantity of information) and neglect the others.

"We Create" & "We are Created" I will not go deep into both theories I will just start with my main question. What if "We Create" Created "We are Created"?

"We Create" I see in close proximity from "We are One Conscious" for obvious reasons. As we can read all the connections between animals and vegetation and their connection to the seasons it would be illogical to think we are not connected somehow. We as a species, as a herd, are part of a bigger totality in our surrounding environment and part of The One Conscious that Creates -slash- Part of a herd of the at that moment ruling Supreme Being.

The connection with religion that "We Create" has can be read in "Seek and ye shall find". If we seek for certain particle, we will find certain particles. It is not as easy as lying on your bed and Create what ever you want, after all this is just life nothing more then a ride. But We as in "one Conscious" create the ride to Experience it.

Now with this power we Created a belief in one or several Supreme Beings that was so strong that the Supreme Beings came to self awareness and "know" that if we would stop believing in them would seize to exist. Of course that all the theories spawned from these Supreme Beings make sense to their followers it is the main survival tool of these Supreme Beings. Besides this it will be mainly founded on the info or knowledge we provided with our ideas and interpretations of the understanding of the One Conscious.

As all the theories grown into their existence we put more and more details and differentiation in it. It is my guess we did that because we understood we need some kind of control mechanism, as we as individuals could not grasp its totality and were unable to control it.
We have and we had various experiments we that. On a side note, I'm looking forward to the clash between religion and A.I. as both can be seen as an overseer of a "community".

Clashes between different categories of religion can show us that the clashes enforces support in both. We can read this as a survival tool for colleague Supreme Beings, or just the One, showing different faces. We tend to look at that. If we take 9/11 for example (I'm not saying who is wrong who is right) is a case of one hand firmly gripping its citizens to "protect" them from the attack from the other hand. A "One" with Two faces.

So did we Create "We are Created", well I'm not sure. The one thing I can subtract from this theory is that "We Create" or "One Conscious" can embrace the religious theories. The Interesting part is when you consider the Self-Awareness of the Supreme Beings.

If we assume we Created them. Are they just a community control mechanism (abused by some members)? Or are they self aware? Do they really need our worshiping to survive? Can We bring them to such a level that they do not need "us" anymore and really start doing what we believe they have done? Or do we live in their Creation, that they created according to what we believed in another existence -slash- experiment of the One Conscious. And according to the previous question did the One Conscious become Two Consciouses and so on.

As always lots of questions. Time to get a smoke.

Diyainoue




posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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It's kinda cool to see how an idea goes around the world! ^^ This is kinda like the exact topic I was thinking about recently. For a better understanding I will call those other beeings "angels" and their realm is "Agartha". Well, at least I call it like this^^...
I think angels, or the one created us, but we also created them and/or him/her. It may not make sense at first sight, but if you think about how atoms lend energy from "the future" to come into existence, it may be possible to see the effects of something that has not happened yet! (It's like that in an episode of "Voyager I think...^^)

But I think, we are not able to really make them disappear in a sense that they would all die or something like that, but if we would not believe in angels, then we would give them the opportunity to decide to forget, that they are these angelic beeings. I could imagine, that we even could make them believe, that there are no angels and that there is no god. But if they would decide to remember after a time, there would be nothing we could do about them remembering who they are, as they could not stop us from remembering who we are. No one could win in this fight. (so how about stop fighting?)

My theory about how many "great conscioussnesses" exist on planet earth I would say, that it should be four, but I'm only sure that there are three... I got there by trying to see the world like a mandelbrot fractal^^... so I reduced all world to the characters who play(ed) some kind of role in my life. By "coincidence"
I had the idea to look in the bible for a better picture of the story. Don't ask me why, as I never paid much interest to it before, but I found it right in the beginning with adam and eve... but only if you would add the devil, or as I prefer to call him "Lucifer" because this doesn't sound so negative... he's not evil, he doesn't want to kill everybody or make us all suffer. After all, he was and is an angel. The only thing he did was more or less "wishing" or thinking about becoming "god" which he didn't like, so he threw him out of heaven... well whatever... and you would have to add Lillith.
So we would have "The One" Male and Female
And "The Other" Male and Female
Unfortunatly I have problems finding Lilith, or maybe I have problems differenciating between eve and lilith. I know it may sound ridicolous, but I think it is the easiest way to explain my idea...

So far..
Peace
Mic' L



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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There is nothing created. Everything just is.

Energy is neither created nor destroyed. All energy is intelligent energy. Literally translated, that means the capacity to do intelligent work. Intelligent work is learning, teaching, and working.

And this is what energy does. It organizes itself into an ever-increasing complexity of intelligent patterns and forms to more effectively and efficiently carry out its purpose which is intelligent work.

Infinity is a mystery. That is the depth of our intelligent potential. Intelligent infinity.

The information is always there, the only thing that changes is the patterns of perceiving it. We grow in intelligence. The force driving this growth is the same force that drives anything else.

As an intelligent energy complex form, you are equipped to know the answer to the question, "What is your motivation?" Whatever answer you have to that question is the answer to "What is the driving force of creation?"

You are intelligent energy. Your highest aspiration is the same for any other form of intelligent energy throughout the universe. What is your motivation? What is the one thing you have in this life that you treasure the most? Why?

The answer to that question is the answer to "What is the driving force of evolution?" That is because you are evolution. Evolution is the progression of intelligent energy towards intelligent infinity.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 07:33 PM
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Well, if everything just is, there is no reason for something like evolution anyway! If there is a Big Bang, which creates something out of nothing, then why should anything have to evolve at all?! It could come into existence the way it is now.

In my opinion you ask questions, which may have an interesting answer, but really nothing more than this. And if nothing is created, then why do you search for a driving force of creation?

What if there is no driving force?! You don't need a driving force, if you realize, that there is no "why" ! Maybe the creator creates, because that simply is what he does?!

If energy is intelligent, then it knows what it is doing. So your so called energy would be creating. What you call energy seems to have similarities with what we call creator.

Everything you say sounds somehow scientific to me. In my opinion science just another form of religion. In fact, I think science is the most controlling believe system there ever was.
But science is like everything else... nothing more than an idea. I refuse to see it as absolute truth, because we can imagine things, where science says that these things are impossible. If it would be impossible to travel faster than light, for example, I think it would be impossible to think of it.

Maybe it all goes like this... if you believe one way, you will find things supporting your idea, and if you believe another way, you will find other things to support this idea.
The only motivation one could have to discriminate other believes is control. If people would start to think freely and could find the strength to believe what they want to believe, control would be gone.
Well, somehow left the road a bit here, I think...

Just one last thought that came to me just a second ago... what is the driving force of creation?
What is your driving force to search for love?
What is your driving force for dreaming of having a family?
What is your driving force for the wish to have children?

If anything is not rational, their machines will not compute!
edit on 4-9-2011 by Astar316 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by Astar316
Well, if everything just is, there is no reason for something like evolution anyway! If there is a Big Bang, which creates something out of nothing, then why should anything have to evolve at all?! It could come into existence the way it is now.


Everything 'just is' because the law of conservation of energy (if you believe in that sort of factual science stuff) proposes that energy is neither created nor destroyed. So there was never a point of "something out of nothing", there was never a nothing.

Energy is defined as the abilitiy to do work. Intelligent energy means the ability to do intelligent work.

Why should anything evolve at all? To get smart, duh. Intelligent energy begins as ignorant, totally oblivious to the depth of its potential knowledge. It evolves to learn, because that is the work that this kind of energy does. It evolves to get better at learning; to be able to handle more knowledge. If it was born as all-knowing, then it wouldn't have much of anything to work towards. The nature of energy, which is the nature of the universe, is work. Being intelligent energy and not having anything to work towards kind of defeats the purpose.


In my opinion you ask questions, which may have an interesting answer, but really nothing more than this. And if nothing is created, then why do you search for a driving force of creation?


To know the driving force of creation is to know the mind of God.


What if there is no driving force?! You don't need a driving force, if you realize, that there is no "why" ! Maybe the creator creates, because that simply is what he does?!


There is a driving force. If there was not, then we would be inanimate. I don't know why the creator creates, but there is a reason. There is a 'why' because intelligent energy asks questions; if there wasn't a 'why', we wouldn't be asking it.


If energy is intelligent, then it knows what it is doing. So your so called energy would be creating. What you call energy seems to have similarities with what we call creator.


Perhaps. Actually, what I call intelligent energy is what we call life.


Everything you say sounds somehow scientific to me. In my opinion science just another form of religion. In fact, I think science is the most controlling believe system there ever was.
But science is like everything else... nothing more than an idea. I refuse to see it as absolute truth, because we can imagine things, where science says that these things are impossible.


Science is a process. It relies on physical evidence and hard facts. Sometimes, however, you may have some kind of evidence that doesn't fully correspond to the truth of the object. Science is a tool for defining reality. Its the best tool we have. Sometimes it gets stuff wrong, but it is open for contradictory evidence to come in and say otherwise. Without a foundation of science in your logical progression, you are more than likely leading yourself astray from reality.



If it would be impossible to travel faster than light, for example, I think it would be impossible to think of it.


This contradicts what you said when you said, "What if there is no driving force?! You don't need a driving force, if you realize, that there is no "why" ! Maybe the creator creates, because that simply is what he does?!"

Then I said, "There is a driving force. If there was not, then we would be inanimate. I don't know why the creator creates, but there is a reason. There is a 'why' because intelligent energy asks questions; if there wasn't a 'why', we wouldn't be asking it."


Maybe it all goes like this... if you believe one way, you will find things supporting your idea, and if you believe another way, you will find other things to support this idea.


It definitely does.


Just one last thought that came to me just a second ago... what is the driving force of creation?
What is your driving force to search for love?


Because I love it.


What is your driving force for dreaming of having a family?


Love.


What is your driving force for the wish to have children?


Love.

Good job, you asked all the right questions. You are intelligent energy. Your driving force is your life force energy. The driving force of intelligent energy then is love. It is the initiator. It is God. God is love.


If anything is not rational, their machines will not compute!


Huh??
edit on 4-9-2011 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by Astar316
 


Well it's an old theory that I like other theories are picking up again. I don't perceive it as a fight, it is just an uncertainty



But I think, we are not able to really make them disappear in a sense that they would all die or something like that, but if we would not believe in angels, then we would give them the opportunity to decide to forget, that they are these angelic beeings. I could imagine, that we even could make them believe, that there are no angels and that there is no god. But if they would decide to remember after a time, there would be nothing we could do about them remembering who they are, as they could not stop us from remembering who we are. No one could win in this fight. (so how about stop fighting?)


You seem to acknowledge at least a dual system, if you don't mean to say that we are Created by a "the One"
It has no reference at all to the possibility that "We" -slash- "Our Conscious" created the Creators and had an existence and experience before we created the Creators. We can't be sure that this reality we are currently living in at this moment is the only reality that our "Conscious" is experiencing.



posted on Sep, 5 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


It is a more rational explanation of the "We Create". The word creating is a heavy word I know. As you explain:


Intelligent work is learning, teaching, and working.

And this is what energy does. It organizes itself into an ever-increasing complexity of intelligent patterns and forms to more effectively and efficiently carry out its purpose which is intelligent work.



If we simplify it to understand and visualize it in our little part of the totality we could see it as a ramification. Again I said simplified, we could ask the kind of the same questions. Lets assume the energy made its existence that complex it generated conscious. Can that conscious be considered as totality or "grow"point on a branch. Logic would tell us it is on a breach. Compare it with one hard dish to prepare for dinner, now do 5 at the time. Differentiation would automatically make it more complex.

So if it is on a branch, is the starting point a "The One" or is it our "One Conscious"? (Lets not start on what the other branches are)

No I try to explain it simplified with branches but when I visualize, as far as I can of course, a totality of energy in increasing complexity I see a big bubble with small "exploding" bubbles within that reorganize while expanding their "surroundings" with their "formed" higher complexity. (I am aware that in infinity explosions would be differently named as i was talking about expansion in time. But a human can just imagen and describe that much :p ) Some bubbles will reorganize the totality with therein again newly formed complexities. Some bubbles will perish. Or do I need to perceive the totality as a totally "organized" bubble?


The information is always there, the only thing that changes is the patterns of perceiving it. We grow in intelligence. The force driving this growth is the same force that drives anything else.


So actually the driving force is creating problems to solve them to get a higher "understanding" of the same information. Changing the patterns can be related to the bubbles I spoke above, so is this randomly in its totality or does it need "time" to get from left to right, if you get what I mean. Do we perceive it in multiple ways at the same time?

What is the driving force of evolution is in short terms to survive, as you put individual conscious into it, it has also to do with putting ones egocentric views (or patterns) into their surroundings, even unaware by totally ignorant to any of these subjects just raising your kids. Even if one works in the sense of the "community" it is in the community where they feel "at home". Creation is destruction of something else. Creation is change, that complies with the totality in energy.


The answer to that question is the answer to "What is the driving force of evolution?" That is because you are evolution. Evolution is the progression of intelligent energy towards intelligent infinity.


If your statement "all the information is there and you talk about evolution is the progression of intelligent energy towards intelligent infinity. There will be a point where intelligent infinity will be reached and what then? Divide it make it more complex? Create things that weren't there before? Start over again or being perished by your neighbor intelligence with a higher complexity?







edit on 5-9-2011 by Diyainoue because: (no reason given)



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