Ten years after 9/11, the conspiracy theorists are still telling lies!

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Well, I really hate to say this, and fully expect to get flack for it, but...

In my experience with 9/11 conspiracies, which began about 3 hours after the collapse of the twin towers here on ATS and elsewhere, on the balance I do believe that we've seen more purposeful "lies" from those proposing 9/11 conspiracies than those supporting the official story.

And this from someone who doesn't subscribe to the "official story."


There, I said it.

You said it all right........".we've seen more purposeful "lies" from those proposing 9/11 conspiracies than those supporting the official story."
Now I just wonder what side of the coin these lies are actually on?
Who benefits from spreading propaganda and who loses from it.
I can't believe there are that many pathological liars in the major and minor news providers, and the internet boards like this one here.
Best as I can tell most folks here know how to converse and spell (no offense to the people over seas)
Somebody is stirring the pot, you have to ask why?
Who will gain from this propaganda?
Regards, Iwinder

i think the 911 was a inside job as a sacrifice to some deity probly moloch by the illuminists... do the research an theres too much symbology according to freemasonry, illuminati and satanism and not to mention the one world order, look at 1990 bush sr. spoke of a new world order,,, follow the research to present time!!!

everything will make sense to you

It's real clear what basically happened on 9/11. I remember it and watched it on TV. 2 Big planes crashed into each trade center building. The buildings collapsed. And who did it? It was done by middle eastern people that hated America. They've been reporting before 9/11 that these people were already rallying and planning to hurt us. What more do you need to know?

Any 9/11 path can be trodden as long as the whole notion of 9/11 Media Fakery
and MSM complicity is kept at bay. People cottoning on to these
truths spells disaster for the perpetrators. Media fakery threads are
tossed in the deliberate lie/hoax bin here at ATS, the irony being that the
general public is in fact the victim of the biggest hoax in history.

Is ATS considered MSM now that it is apparently so popular?

Anyone or any 9/11 group that denies and ridicules, after investigation,
the major role that media fakery played in 9/11 can be catagorised as 'sold-out'.
IMO.

Originally posted by BillfromCovina
You said you have seen more purposeful lies from those proposing 9/11 conspiracies than those supporting the official story. So what, in your opinion, is the purpose? The only purpose I can see is to discredit the movement.

I can see several other purposes. One involves the exchange of green pieces of paper for DVDs and books. Another involves people needing more attention than they get outside the truther movement. Some people may be running information operations against certain governments. Others might just think it's fun.

Are there people within the truther movement purposefully lying in order to discredit the truther movement? Maybe. I know of a concerted trolling effort against a creationist web site that operated in such a manner. They treated it as a sort of experimental test of Poe's law. They penetrated the web site's moderator corps by being more extreme in their purported beliefs than people who sincerely held creationist beliefs.

The problem for truthers is distinguishing the purposeful lies from the sincerely-held wrong beliefs that make up the bulk of the movement's discourse. When truthers start calling each other out as disinfo agents, we see the effect of that problem. I think there should be a corollary of Poe's law for conspiracy theorists: Any extreme conspiracy theory may be seen as disinformation by other conspiracy theorists; no conspiracy theorist considers their own theory extreme; therefore, every conspiracy theorist may consider any other theorist's theory disinformation.

Wanna know what excites the orchestrators of 911 the most? The fact that you all have found them out yet there is still nothing you can do about it.

Not only are you dealing with extremely powerful and rich psychopaths but excitement junkies as well.

Originally posted by pshea38
www.septemberclues.info
www.cluesforum.info

"September Clues" is a HOAX and deliberately made-up disinformation. ATS has moved the "September Clues"-related threads to the HOAX bin as a result of it being a proven HOAX. The "September Clues" HOAX and disinformation is debunked in my thread here:

DEW/Energy Weapons? Holograms? TV Fakery? No Planes at the WTC? -- A 9/11 Disinfo Campaign


Then there's this from Sauron:

From this point forward, ONE TV FAKERY THREAD WILL REMAIN OPEN.

This one: SEPTEMBER CLUES exposes 911 TV Fakery
The opening posts of all "TV Fakery" threads will be modified to direct users to this thread. And likewise, this remaining open thread's first post will contain links to important questions raised by our members.

For now, new "TV Fakery" or "No Planes" threads based on the work of this group will be deleted. Please use the existing thread indicated above to add any new material to the discussion. Repeated attempts to start new threads may result in account termination. If we see an improvement in tone, and an effort for collaboration, this restriction will likely be lifted. It's up to them.


It's unfortunate that what seems to be aa habitually malicious group has seen fit to act this way over events that deserve thoughtful debate, open research, and most of all collaborative participation. We've added additional staff to the 9/11 forum, and we'll be watching closely. Members, please help us by using the new "post alert" button when you see issues you believe we should be aware of.


And before we hear potential complaints of an uneven approach to moderation, YES, long-standing members will indeed be favored over the new participants who have shown no respect.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
The staff of AboveTopSecret.com

The Terms and Conditions of ATS also state:

15l.) [HOAX]: In the event you Post more than three items that are later determined to be of an obviously hoax, fraudulent, or faked nature, your account may be terminated without warning.

There's three violations of the T&C just in this thread alone, not to mention all the other previous spam posts of this HOAX in other threads.

Can a mod please deal with this issue?

Originally posted by pshea38


How can the cladding repair itself on the way down?


Notice the extensive damage to the facade that has been circled.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d790559c6cb6.jpg[/atsimg]



And amazingly the same piece of facade manages to repair itself on the way down.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/abcae5ff2d98.jpg[/atsimg]

How can the cladding repair itself on the way down? It didn't. I enlarged the photos like you should have and placed them side by side. The green arrow is pointing to what is most likely a bird screen. They had screens on the mechanical floors to keep birds from nesting in the vents. The red arrows are pointing to the external aluminium cladding that you said repaired itself. As you can see the aluminium cladding is present in both pictures. The bird screen has just blown away in the second picture (you can see it above the yellow circle in your second picture plain as day) Giving a clear view of the column.





A photo of the mechanical floors where they had the bird screens.

Originally posted by regularjoe123
It's real clear what basically happened on 9/11. I remember it and watched it on TV. 2 Big planes crashed into each trade center building. The buildings collapsed. And who did it? It was done by middle eastern people that hated America. They've been reporting before 9/11 that these people were already rallying and planning to hurt us. What more do you need to know?

This pretty much covers it.

You Only Believe the Official 9/11 Story Because You Don't Know the Official 9/11 Story

tvnewslies.org...

And there is the little matter of IMPOSSIBLE PHYSICS.

psik

Originally posted by pshea38

Originally posted by geobro
i live in the uk on the day of 9/11 i can remember it like yesterday because i had just returned hime after 5 weeks away working 1 i heard the shutters of bar opposite opening so i decided 2 go over i left the tv on with the twin towers on screen thinking it was a film . on entering the bar i was first in i told bar man to turn large screen on to sports channel to be told THIS IS ON ALL CHANNELS strange that as new york is 5 hours behind uk that would make it 6 .40 am new york QUIZZ HUNDERDS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE RADIOS AT WORK ETC i have i know this answer we cant ALL BE NUTS just thinking eh .

So the pub opened at 11am-11.30am UK time, and showing on the tv screens at 11.40am was
the live coverage of the NY attacks. Wow!
Now I believe that all footage broadcast that day was preprepared cgi, but if what you say is correct
and can be verified by others, well.......

reply to post by FurvusRexCaeli


Isn't the purpose of war, money and resources? How can any 911 conspiracy theory be a more purposeful lie than the NIST report on building 7 or even the 911 commission report? The 911 commission report with all the resources and money put in states that its purpose was not to assign blame. It doesn't investigate much of the important background information such as, who made all the money shorting the market, Able Danger, and Saudi Arabia. It was a colossal waste of money and a snow job. If I state that aliens shot the trade center from Jupiter is that really more purposeful than the 911 report?

I apologise that this is slighty off topic, I love the post and I can say I have been seeing this tactic for years from MSM. What I wanted to raise, was something that 'somtimes' both OS'ers and MSM do when they accuse Truthers of belittling / betraying the victims of this horrendous event, just because we refuse to believe what the government has told us (mainly because the evidence just does not fit).

The truth is, I really do feel for the vitims of 9/11, not just those that died, but those who were left behind and whose lives will never ever be the same again; not to mention those who have been afflicted with debilitating conditions as a result of being part of both the rescue services and the volunteers, who's blood sweat and tears were focused on the search for survivors and the protection of the public. I truly believe that the people who are pushing for the truth to come out, feel the same way.

What I would love to see, is for ATS or indeed an industrious ATS member, to gather all of the Truther information and evidence that has been posted on ATS since this happened and publish it as a book (if they could find someone to take that risk) and all of the proceeds to be disseminated to those people I mentioned above. Granted, the money would not change what happened, but it might go some way to filling the chasm between what has been given by the government and what should have been.

You already admitted you modified the picture for dramatic effect. How bout posting the other version of the pic that hasn't been edited? This is the worst evidence ever: 'I have evidence that WTC bombing was reported in a fabricated manner! Here is my modified version of another picture for dramatic effect! This PROVES that the media modified it! Oh, and again I modified it as well, but disregard that."

Originally posted by BillfromCovina
You said you have seen more purposeful lies from those proposing 9/11 conspiracies than those supporting the official story. So what, in your opinion, is the purpose?

I believe some of the early "conspiracy fakery" intended to discredit conspiracy theories began in late 2001, early 2002. Last year I tried to track down the short documentary by a French film maker that was among the first, if not first, pieces of material to propose no plane hit the Pentagon and several other of the more extremist WTC conspiracy concepts. This short documentary somehow had the budget to purchase TV commercials on several cable networks. Then, it disappeared. Soon after that, the Web Fairy picked up and ran with the ideas presented.

The rest is merely the egos of the various 9/11 factions engaged in tit-for-tat one-upsmanship in the search for attention and follower. Nico Haupt in NYC is a prime example of someone spreading 9/11 conspiracy lies in order to get attention.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

I believe some of the early "conspiracy fakery" intended to discredit conspiracy theories began in late 2001, early 2002. Last year I tried to track down the short documentary by a French film maker that was among the first, if not first, pieces of material to propose no plane hit the Pentagon and several other of the more extremist WTC conspiracy concepts. This short documentary somehow had the budget to purchase TV commercials on several cable networks. Then, it disappeared. Soon after that, the Web Fairy picked up and ran with the ideas presented.

The rest is merely the egos of the various 9/11 factions engaged in tit-for-tat one-upsmanship in the search for attention and follower. Nico Haupt in NYC is a prime example of someone spreading 9/11 conspiracy lies in order to get attention.

Why would anyone go to all that effort to discredit conspiracy theories which if there was no truth in them?

Surely, if you knew that it was Osama et al. who were at fault the right way to go about thing would be to, you know, collect evidence and document reality?

Isn't this the whole purpose of science and all that junk? To cast a light on reality?

So why spend time and effort on starting idiotic theories instead of a normal civilized investigation in terms of the rule of law upon which modern civilization is based? If you want to discredit naysayers surely a full account of the evidence will do that for you?

Except if you know it won't. Because it doesn't. Because the reality is what the reality is.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I don't know how extreme the no-plane hit the pentagon theory really is. To this day I have still not seen a clear picture of a plane hitting the pentagon. Now if you said no plane hit the trade center, then I would state you are on the fringe. I think we both can agree that the real problem is with our government lying and hiding information. If they could be trusted, conspiracy theories would never become popular.

reply to post by BillfromCovina


I'm in the rather unique position of having a brother who lives in DC, happened to be on the highway at the time, and saw it come in and hit the Pentagon. He was pretty shook up about it when he called later that night.

There were several similar accounts from interviews with people who were on one of the roads on the side that was hit.

Originally posted by Darkwing01
Why would anyone go to all that effort to discredit conspiracy theories which if there was no truth in them?

Simple.

The effort (in theory) would have been designed to populate the inevitable global discussion with so many "crazy theories" with no truth, as to discredit the not-so-crazy theories with truth, by association.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
reply to post by BillfromCovina

 

I'm in the rather unique position of having a brother who lives in DC, happened to be on the highway at the time, and saw it come in and hit the Pentagon. He was pretty shook up about it when he called later that night.

There were several similar accounts from interviews with people who were on one of the roads on the side that was hit.

Since your brother lives in DC, I would have to ask about his background and does he work for the government? Another important question is did he actually see the plane hit the pentagon? Was he in the right position to actually see it or did he just see a plane flying very low and fast? Was the plane he saw the same size? How fast was it going? More important than any of these eyewitness accounts are the film and pictures that we should have by now.

Originally posted by BillfromCovina
I would have to ask about his background and does he work for the government?

I'm not going to provide enough detail so that people reading this can track him down, as some tried a few years back when I mentioned this.

He's an entrepreneur with his own company. Prior to that he was in private education. No government affiliation or contracts.