Is Islam a genuine threat?, page 1

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Topic started on 4-9-2011 @ 04:32 AM by petrus4

This is a question I've been trying to figure out for some time now; and it seems to be virtually impossible to get an honest answer.

There seem to be two very sharply polarised opinions. On the one hand, you have people who are adherents of the religion, who claim that it is oriented towards peace, and is capable of co-existing with other cultures and ideologies.

On the other hand, however, there seems to be an extremely large number of people, who believe that the ultimate goal of Islam as an overall religion, is the complete conquest, overthrow, and subversion of the entirety of the planet.

I really try and avoid racism, xenophobia, and other forms of prejudice. I have tried to undertake this investigation with honesty and objectivity, and to follow where the evidence leads; but I cannot lie. Said evidence does not seem to be in favour of those who are sympathetic towards Islam. I have read of rioting in France; I have read of majorities of the French and German populations viewing Islam as a threat to their national identity. I have recently seen, in local supermarkets, the Halal certification mark beginning to appear on food. John Cleese recently made the statement that London as a city is no longer culturally consistent with the rest of England at all.

All of these things, inexorably support a conclusion of gradual, creeping assimilation. I am aware of how politically incorrect drawing analogies between Islam and the Borg Collective may be; but they seem to be inescapable.

I'm aware that the American government has, in the past, thrived on a steady succession of global threats, in order to keep wars going, and give the military/industrial complex justification for its' continued existence. I am becoming gravely concerned, however, that in the case of Islam, the threat may actually be genuinely real; that there truly is an Islamic objective to conquer the planet.

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 04:39 AM by Terrorist

reply to post by petrus4

Christianity is still probably a bigger threat at the moment. The Islamophobia that's being cultivated in the West is all about political opportunism and fear-mongering. However, to be fair, while Islamist (note the "ist" at the end of "Islamist," as opposed to "Islamic") extremists are exploiting Islam, it is an exceptionally easy religion to exploit. The biggest perversion of the creed I would say is the distorted concept of "Jihad." The spiritual and political implications of the term have really changed immensely over time, and I advise you look into that, it's surprising.
If Islam may be a threat, it isn't the biggest to the world and even US national security.

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 04:49 AM by petrus4

reply to post by Terrorist

Thank you for this answer. I wait to see what answers others here have, as well.

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 04:50 AM by 111111

reply to post by Terrorist

you make some very good points. Every ideology can be manipulated in a negative way.

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 04:51 AM by gimme_some_truth

My answer is very simple.... They are no bigger of a threat than any other religion...

You will find extremists in every religion....

So for what that is worth.... The religion is not a threat at all.... Some of the extremists maybe..... But not all Islamic people...

And as I said, you will find extremists in pretty much every religion.

edit on 4-9-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 04:51 AM by nearlyfabled

I, myself, am a Muslim and though I am not a scholar, I have a fair amount of knowledge in this topic.

Can ideal Islam coexist with other cultures and religions? Yes and no. And I'll explain why.

Islam ideally is not a religion that is followed by people who are living under the laws of another country - especially a secular one. Islam is meant to practiced in a country who's laws follow those laid out in the Qur'an and Sunnah(the ways of the Prophet Muhammed).
These laws are not very strict, but must be followed strictly. If the leader does not rule with these laws, or deviates from them, it must be made clear to him. If he persists, he is kicked out and a new leader is chosen.

The laws themself 100% allow for religious freedom. A christian may practice his/her faith, go to church, pray, follow their own religious law, etc.(for things like marriage, retribution, etc.) The only thing is - they have to pay tax. This is called Jizyah. Whoever pays Jizyah is able to live in the Muslim lands with peace, and will be protected by the Muslims in the event of war.

So does Islam want to take over the world? Definitely. But not for the reasons you think. Islam isn't about I'm better than you, it's about let me show you something that's better for you. It's laws and rules of conduct offer the perfect basis for society. If there's something conflicting between Islam's laws, and western laws, I bet you my life that whatever western laws are offering is not TRULY beneficial to society.

I can answer questions to the best of my ability if you have any.

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 04:54 AM by Terrorist

reply to post by petrus4

Glad to lend my perspective. I think that the whole discourse on this topic has been faulty. The reality of it is Islam isn't an exclusively peaceful religion, but then again, very few religions are. At the same time, Islam isn't an exclusively barbaric religion either. There are many different faces of it, but people try too hard and too often to simplify the state of all things. It is better to have a sober reflection upon wider truths, by acquiring as much information as possible and then assessing it afterwards to come to a complete conclusion, instead of relying on simplifications.

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 04:56 AM by gimme_some_truth

Originally posted by nearlyfabled

Can ideal Islam coexist with other cultures and religions? Yes and no. And I'll explain why.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by ideal Islam? I ask because it seems like regardless of religion "ideal" would vary from person to person, opinion to opinion.... If that makes sense.

Plus I have never really heard the phrase used for any religion.Ideal ______ (Insert religion here).

So, how do you mean?

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 05:01 AM by nearlyfabled

Islam in it's true form, with all the of laws being implemented is ideal. Sorry, it probably wasn't very clear the first time.

For example, American muslims are not living Islam entirely, because they are living under the law of a essentially secular state. Ideally, they would be living in an Islamic country ruled by Islamic laws.

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 05:02 AM by Maslo

Nothing is black and white, and there are both peaceful and extremist muslims.

On the other hand, extremism in Islam is quite prevalent, with hundreds of millions of psychopathic adherents. I do believe that out of major religions on this planet, Islam is the biggest threat, somehow similar to christianity during middle ages.

Some relevant statistics showing the real face of Islam:

pewglobal.org...

edit on 4/9/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 05:03 AM by JohhnyBGood

The terrifying brilliance of the Islamic memeplex.

If you were going to deliberately design a combination of memes with the purpose of making a memeplex that could eventually dominate the world — one that would eventually out-compete every other memeplex — you would be hard-pressed to do better than Islam.

Let's look at some of the individual memes within the Islamic memeplex:.......................

no 24.....

24. The memeplex instructs on the use of pretext to start wars.

The Koran devotes a lot of time complaining about people who did not support Mohammad when he first started his religion, with Allah often condemning them to torment in hell in the hereafter.

Mohammad was rather pushy and insistent with his religion, and when others felt intruded upon and protested, Mohammad took that to mean they were trying to stop Allah's holy prophet from bringing the revealed word of Allah to the world, so he was justified to fight them and destroy them as Allah's enemies.

This is a demonstration of the principle of pretext. Non-Muslims of the world need urgently to become aware of this principle. Of all the memes in the memeplex, this is the most dangerous to the West because it removes our natural self-preserving defenses. The use of pretext tends to make the West defenseless against the Islamic invasion now underway. Muslim terrorists are not naive people. They are smart, educated, well-funded, and being used by a very clever memeplex.

The invasion of the West is underway, and it is being done so cleverly, most westerners don't even know it is happening. (Read more about their 20-year plan to overthrow the government of the United States. Also, read about the Shariatization of Europe.) Pretext means you need only the barest excuse to begin hostilities. It means you're actually looking for an excuse, and even trying to provoke others into striking the first blow — of "starting" the hostilities.

www.citizenwarrior.com...

edit on 4-9-2011 by JohhnyBGood because: link

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 05:07 AM by TribeOfManyColours

I dont think Islam is an treat, although our queen thinks it is
Happened yesterday

YouTube Link

edit on 4-9-2011 by TribeOfManyColours because: (no reason given)

nos.nl...

Wish there was an instant translator

edit on 4-9-2011 by TribeOfManyColours because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 05:08 AM by Maslo

reply to post by nearlyfabled

Islam ideally is not a religion that is followed by people who are living under the laws of another country - especially a secular one.

This post, along with another post by a muslim I saw calling for criminalisation of homosexuality, shows that tolerance is in short supply in islamic religion, and they in fact often do desire to force their religious customs on others.

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 05:09 AM by gimme_some_truth

Originally posted by nearlyfabled
Islam in it's true form, with all the of laws being implemented is ideal. Sorry, it probably wasn't very clear the first time.

For example, American muslims are not living Islam entirely, because they are living under the law of a essentially secular state. Ideally, they would be living in an Islamic country ruled by Islamic laws.

ah okay, I got you. Thanks

That makes sense.

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 05:14 AM by gimme_some_truth

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by nearlyfabled

Islam ideally is not a religion that is followed by people who are living under the laws of another country - especially a secular one.

This post, along with another post by a muslim I saw calling for criminalisation of homosexuality, shows that tolerance is in short supply in islamic religion, and they in fact often do desire to force their religious customs on others.

As I said before, there are extremists in most religion... To paint all people of one religion as bad or what have you is just silly....

If you have a problem with Islam based on what two people have said.... Well, try talking to other muslims...They don't bite. Go to a mosque. Ask questions.

Know the religion before you assume that everyone in the Islamic faith wants to force it's will on others.....

Now, you want to talk to a religious person that loves to force his will on other? go talk to the pope..... Again that is not to say that all Christians are like that, but it is hard to argue that the Christian Religion has not tried to force itself upon just about every one it has come across....

Spanish crusades anyone?

Oh and by the way you completely misinterpreted that post you were replying to. They were answering a question as to what they meant by ideal...Not trying to force their will on anyone.....

They said that because I asked a question...... So if you want to have a problem with anyone, have a problem with me.....

I asked the question.

edit on 4-9-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 05:16 AM by nearlyfabled

reply to post by Maslo

You bet that's the real face of Islam, but it doesn't mean that it's harsh or a threat to the West. When someone has their hand cut off for stealing something, do you think they can easily and consciously steal something again, while they use their only remaining hand to commit the crime?

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 05:18 AM by Maslo

reply to post by gimme_some_truth

Know the religion before you assume that everyone in the Islamic faith wants to force it's will on others.....

I do not, I said there are both tolerant muslims and extremists.

Now, you want to talk to a religious person that loves to force his will on other? go talk to the pope.....

Source, please. And no, something that happened hundreds of years ago is not relevant.

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 05:19 AM by The Old American

Originally posted by Terrorist
reply to post by petrus4

Christianity is still probably a bigger threat at the moment. The Islamophobia that's being cultivated in the West is all about political opportunism and fear-mongering. However, to be fair, while Islamist (note the "ist" at the end of "Islamist," as opposed to "Islamic") extremists are exploiting Islam, it is an exceptionally easy religion to exploit. The biggest perversion of the creed I would say is the distorted concept of "Jihad." The spiritual and political implications of the term have really changed immensely over time, and I advise you look into that, it's surprising.
If Islam may be a threat, it isn't the biggest to the world and even US national security.

I was just thinking the other day that I ought to go cut some heads off! Maybe bomb a couple of markets. I don't think I've stoned a virgin to death for being raped in a while. Decisions, decisions.

/TOA

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 05:21 AM by nearlyfabled

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by Terrorist
reply to post by petrus4

Christianity is still probably a bigger threat at the moment. The Islamophobia that's being cultivated in the West is all about political opportunism and fear-mongering. However, to be fair, while Islamist (note the "ist" at the end of "Islamist," as opposed to "Islamic") extremists are exploiting Islam, it is an exceptionally easy religion to exploit. The biggest perversion of the creed I would say is the distorted concept of "Jihad." The spiritual and political implications of the term have really changed immensely over time, and I advise you look into that, it's surprising.
If Islam may be a threat, it isn't the biggest to the world and even US national security.

I was just thinking the other day that I ought to go cut some heads off! Maybe bomb a couple of markets. I don't think I've stoned a virgin to death for being raped in a while. Decisions, decisions.

/TOA

I can't even tell if you're being sarcastic or not, because none of the things you mentioned are Islamic..

reply posted on 4-9-2011 @ 05:22 AM by petrus4

Originally posted by nearlyfabled
The laws themself 100% allow for religious freedom. A christian may practice his/her faith, go to church, pray, follow their own religious law, etc.(for things like marriage, retribution, etc.) The only thing is - they have to pay tax. This is called Jizyah. Whoever pays Jizyah is able to live in the Muslim lands with peace, and will be protected by the Muslims in the event of war.

While I am not an ethnic Indian, I do self-identify as a Shakta Hindu, after a number of experiences which took place in 2007 that led to my conversion, from a largely inactive and involuntary form of Christianity. I have often wondered how I would be regarded within Islamic society. I have not read a huge amount about the background of the partitioning of India and Pakistan, but most of what I have read about Islamic/Hindu relations have tended to strongly imply that said relations are often violent, with said violence primarily originating from the Islamic side of the fence.

As far as Islam having its' own legal system is concerned, I had seen *some* common elements between Islamic jurisprudence and my own reading of the Mahabharata. Dietary discipline is emphasised within the Vedas, in a similar manner to that which it apparently is within Islam. For the most part, from what I have been able to determine, with some minor deviations, I would generally be considered upright by Islamic legal standards; I am sexually inactive, have no criminal record, and studiously avoid any form of gambling.

Given that I am alone in marital terms, I won't necessarily claim *complete* innocence where pornography is concerned, but I have noticed that that has decreased over time to the point of near non-existence currently. There is a small amount of occasional alcohol consumption as well; which while not excessive, I am aware that none is apparently allowed where Islam is concerned.

Islam isn't about I'm better than you, it's about let me show you something that's better for you. It's laws and rules of conduct offer the perfect basis for society.

There would be no disagreement from me, with the Islamic opinion that Western society is in dire need of a greater degree of moral discipline, at present. The real question is the manner in which said discipline is applied, and also the definition of it.

If there's something conflicting between Islam's laws, and western laws, I bet you my life that whatever western laws are offering is not TRULY beneficial to society.

From most of what I have seen, I would agree with this. I would certainly agree with it where the Vedic sociological blueprint is concerned. I have come to feel that contemporary society would be infinitely better off, (yes, even outside India) if it adhered to the Vedic model.

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