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Betelgeuse Supernova

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posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


Thanks for the reading material, quite an interesting subject. Kinda off topic, but say it was a closer star, within 100 LY's distance.. and it blew, if it had like.. a shock wave or something, we would feel the shock wave, the same time we see the action of it blowing up right? or would they not travel at the same speed? Is my term even accurate? Is there any kind of shock wave type feeling? Maybe a gravity wave?




posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by tbonedude
 


Fortunately shock waves cannot travel in a vacuum and gravity waves wouldn't be formed by an explosion. We would get fried however if a supernova were close enough as it would strip a large part of our atmosphere away. If you really want to blow your mind on the subject of gravity waves, read this...

Gravity Waves Wiki



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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Just don't say it 3 times in a row, it just might go!





posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by Insomniac
 


Interesting.. they cant be in newtons theory due to there speed. Maybe that could be the theoretical tachyon particle? interesting stuff thanks for that

Getting back OT, Does Betelgeuse have anything orbiting it? Could we observe it or is it to far away? It would be sweet to see it and its power



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 08:18 PM
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The most pressing threat from any supernova would be the gamma ray burst it produces, which is emitted in a narrow beam from the poles of the star. Betelgeuse is probably close enough that if the gamma ray burst from its supernova was pointed directly at us, like a sniper shot, it could wipe out all life on Earth pretty much instantly.

Gamma ray bursts from supernovas are so energetic they produce as much energy in a few seconds as our sun does in its entire 10 billion year life span. We can see them as bright pinpoints of light in galaxies billions of light years away when they happen, and they can be so bright they outshine all other stars in their galaxy combined for a short time.

Here is an image of a galaxy with a supernova going off in the lower left-hand corner of the picture; this galaxy is about 55 million light years away. It looks like a star in the foreground, something in our own galaxy that is in front of this distant galaxy, but it's not.

The likelihood that Betelgeuse has one of its poles pointed at us is considered very remote, but not impossible.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by Redevilfan09
What do you mean it could blow at any time? I thought that if it was to blow tommorow, we would have to wait 100-1300 years for the light to reach us or something like that.... If that is correct, it is possible Betegeuse has already exploded. Isn't it?

Yes. If we see it explode tomorrow, that means it actually blew up hundreds of years ago and it took this long for us to see it. If it blows up now, we'll be half a millennia on before anyone on Earth sees it.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by LifeInDeath
 


GRBs are made of pure energy right? Does energy have mass? Cant travel at the speed of light if it does.. so whats it made of?



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by tbonedude
 


Gamma Rays are part of the electro magnetic spectrum and as such have no mass.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by Insomniac
reply to post by tbonedude
 


Gamma Rays are part of the electro magnetic spectrum and as such have no mass.


This explains the nature of Gamma Rays rather welll...

Gamma Rays



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by tbonedude
 


Yeah, what they said.

Several years ago I saw a visual representation of a supernova going off. It seemed to show that there is the possibility that we are inside the range of the worst case scenario from Bettlegeuse, and that it had the possibility of stripping off our atmosphere.

Same with the Crab Nebula. That the guest star had a chance that the burst could have come in this direction, but it didn't. They don't blow in a sphere like in Star Trek.


There were even some people claiming that the Crab Nebula supernova was an example of how Earth was being protected by a supernatural force. Wiping out dinosaurs to make room for us, that previous ELE events were to direct animal forms, directing gamma ray bursts away from our planet, etc.
edit on 2011/9/4 by Aeons because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 09:16 PM
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here's another viewpoint of betelgeuse. i posted this back in january 2010. it was a short thread readable here

www.abovetopsecret.com...

for my money, ANYthing is possible and current physics laws are not neccessarily forever. i'm fascinated by friede's remarks and believe they are prophetic and i do really expect the heavens to be rolled up like a scroll. i expect humans to be absolutely terrified when this phenomena occurrs. various texts in the bible point to something occurring "out of this world", as do many prophecies from saints and others down thru the centuries before and after friede. anyone without spiritual growth of some degree will find it hard to survive. (i am not a christian by the way)
astronomers have stated that betelgeuse has shrunk 15% or so over the last 10 or 20 years which i find very interesting considering friede's remarks.

oh, and by the way; black holes are a hypothesis only, but are written about so often as "the norm" that people presume they are absolutely proven.


17. Johann Friede ~ According to a vision received by Johann Friede (1204-1257), an Austrian monk of the Order of St. John, several extraordinary phenomena will give warning that the present order of civilization is about to end: "When the great time will come, in which mankind will face its last, hard trial, it will be foreshadowed by striking changes in nature; the alteration between cold and heat will become more intensive, storms will have more catastrophic effects, earthquakes will destroy greater regions and the seas will overflow many lowlands. Not all of it will be the result of natural causes, but man will penetrate into the bowels of the earth and will reach into the clouds, gambling with its own existence. Before the powers of destruction will succeed in their design, the universe will be thrown into disorder, and the age of iron will plunge into nothingness. When the nights will be filled with more intensive cold and the day with heat, a new life will begin in nature. The heat means radiation from the earth, the cold the waning light of the sun. Only a few more years and you will become aware that sunlight has become perceptibly weaker. When even your artificial light will cease to give service, the great event of the firmament will be near. "The nebula of the Greater Bear will arrive in the vicinity of earth... and will fill the space of five hundred suns at the horizon. It will more and more cover up the light of the sun until the days will be like nights at full moon. The illumination will not come from the moon, but from Orion, which constellation, by the light of Jupiter, will send forth its rays on the Greater Bear and will dissolve its nebula with the force of light. "By this time mankind will be stricken with terror. Birds will be like reptiles and will not use their wings. Animals of the ground, in fear and alarm, will raise such a clamor that it will make human hearts tremble. Men will flee their abodes in order not to see the weird occurrence. Finally, complete darkness will set in and last for three days and three nights. "During this time, men, deprived of the power of light, will fall into a slumber-like sleep from which many will not awaken, especially those who have no spark of spiritual life. When the sun will again rise and emerge, earth will be covered with a blanket of ashes like snow in winter, except that the ashes will have the color of sulfur. Damp fog will ascend from the ground, illuminated by igneous gases. "Of mankind there will be more dead than there have been casualties in all wars. In the abodes of the children of light, the Book of Revelations will be read, and in the palaces of the Church they will await the arrival of the great comet. On the seventh day after the return of light, earth will have absorbed the ashes and formed such fertility as has not been experienced ever before. But Orion will cast its ray on the earth and show a path toward the last resting place of the greatest and most eminent man who had ever lived on the EARTH.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 09:31 PM
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couldnt we point the hubble telescope at Beleteguese and zoom right in at max power to see what its status is as best as is possible?

Surely if the hubble could see a supernova happening, then it should give us a littel bit of warning time before our own eyes see it.

Since zooming into this event would be like looking back in time.

Like another poster mentioned, this could have already gone supernova but the light hasnt reached us yet.

And in the event of a supernova, is there a chance of any particles being flung out at speeds faster than the speed of light?



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia

couldnt we point the hubble telescope at Beleteguese and zoom right in at max power to see what its status is as best as is possible?
Surely if the hubble could see a supernova happening, then it should give us a littel bit of warning time before our own eyes see it.
Since zooming into this event would be like looking back in time.


I'm afraid not! Light travels at the speed of light... Hubble would be no different to a telescope on earth. When you look at Betelgeuse you are seeing it as it was (approx 640 years ago). I think you're confusing hubble being able to see the very earliest galaxies due to being able to see further, fainter objects which are further back in time.
If a galaxy is 13 billion light years away it will still take 13 billion years for the light to reach hubble. There is no way of cheating this.



And in the event of a supernova, is there a chance of any particles being flung out at speeds faster than the speed of light?



Nothing that could harm us. We really are in no danger anyway.
edit on 4/9/11 by Insomniac because: I had a real problem with formatting



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
couldnt we point the hubble telescope at Beleteguese and zoom right in at max power to see what its status is as best as is possible?

Surely if the hubble could see a supernova happening, then it should give us a littel bit of warning time before our own eyes see it.

Since zooming into this event would be like looking back in time.

Like another poster mentioned, this could have already gone supernova but the light hasnt reached us yet.


We have some very good photos of Betelgeuse. Zooming in doesn't let you see the star earlier, it just makes it bigger. The light still has to travel the 640 light years from the source before it reaches the light sensor on Hubble, or the Spatial Interferometer at Mt. Wilson, in the case of the photos in the above link. Zooming is just greater magnification, it doesn't let you see something that hasn't reached you yet

.

And in the event of a supernova, is there a chance of any particles being flung out at speeds faster than the speed of light?

No, if a particle has mass it can't go as fast as light, and nothing can go faster than light, not even light nor gamma rays.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 10:03 PM
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edit on 4/9/11 by Insomniac because: I'm too tired for formatting



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by LifeInDeath

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia

No, if a particle has mass it can't go as fast as light, and nothing can go faster than light, not even light nor gamma rays.



Unless the hyperthetical Tachyon particle that tbonedude mentioned earlier exists.
edit on 4/9/11 by Insomniac because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 10:14 PM
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I believe that there is no threat of a gamma ray burst from the eventual supernova of Betelgeuse because its rotational axis is not pointed toward the Earth.

This should give everyone a good idea of what it will look like in the night sky, I'm sure everyone recognizes Orion the hunter...

Celestia's computerized depiction of Orion as it might appear from Earth should Betelgeuse explode as a supernova , Click picture to enlarge...

There was some time that many astronomers believed that a different star named Wolf-Rayet 104 posed a very real and immediate danger although the most current observations place Earth well out of harms way.


Some optical measurements indicate that WR 104's rotational axis is aligned within 16° of Earth.[4] This could have potential implications to the effects of WR 104's eventual supernova, since these explosions often produce jets from their rotational poles. It is possible that WR 104 may even produce a gamma-ray burst, though it is not possible to predict with certainty at this time. Newer spectroscopic data suggest that WR 104's rotational axis is more likely angled 30–40° from Earth


WR 104


A spectacular rotating pinwheel system just down the astronomical road from Earth — 8,000 light years away — includes an unstable Wolf-Rayet star that could explode....

....Tuthill and his team worry this box-seat view might put us in the firing line when the system finally explodes.

"Sometimes, supernovae like the one that will one day destroy WR104 focus their energy into a narrow beam of very destructive gamma-ray radiation along the axis of the system," he warns. "If such a 'gamma-ray burst' happens, we really do not want Earth to be in the way."

Even a short gamma-ray burst at supernova strength could zap away half the Earth's ozone layer, drastically increasing the amount of deadly space radiation that penetrates our atmosphere.


'Death Star' Gamma-Ray Gun Pointed Straight at Earth


animated image of WR104's spiral.

It looks like we will dodge the bullet with a margin to spare. I have to admit, it does give me pause for consideration of how insignificant and helpless humanity really is when confronted with the vastness of the Universe.

edit on 4-9-2011 by Drunkenparrot because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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in the pic, by huffington post, they have for an illustration and how they exsplain it is a LIE. That is soooooo far away that, that large of a pic the same size of our own sun. NO WAY to big. Beetlejuice will just flicker and then no light will be seen in the night sky. BEETLEJUICE IS SO FAR AWAY, how could they even possibly give an illustration like that, that is an absolute lie of illustrations. To light up the night sky with a light the size of our own sun. JEEZ. We are not that close to beetlejuice. WHATEVER.

edit on 4-9-2011 by cloaked4u because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by Drunkenparrot
I believe that there is no threat of a gamma ray burst from the eventual supernova of Betelgeuse because its rotational axis is not pointed toward the Earth.

This should give everyone a good idea of what it will look like in the night sky, I'm sure everyone recognizes Orion the hunter...

Celestia's computerized depiction of Orion as it might appear from Earth should Betelgeuse explode as a supernova , Click picture to enlarge...

There was some time that many astronomers believed that a different star named Wolf-Rayet 104 posed a very real and immediate danger although the most current observations place Earth well out of harms way.


Some optical measurements indicate that WR 104's rotational axis is aligned within 16° of Earth.[4] This could have potential implications to the effects of WR 104's eventual supernova, since these explosions often produce jets from their rotational poles. It is possible that WR 104 may even produce a gamma-ray burst, though it is not possible to predict with certainty at this time. Newer spectroscopic data suggest that WR 104's rotational axis is more likely angled 30–40° from Earth


WR 104


A spectacular rotating pinwheel system just down the astronomical road from Earth — 8,000 light years away — includes an unstable Wolf-Rayet star that could explode....

....Tuthill and his team worry this box-seat view might put us in the firing line when the system finally explodes.

"Sometimes, supernovae like the one that will one day destroy WR104 focus their energy into a narrow beam of very destructive gamma-ray radiation along the axis of the system," he warns. "If such a 'gamma-ray burst' happens, we really do not want Earth to be in the way."

Even a short gamma-ray burst at supernova strength could zap away half the Earth's ozone layer, drastically increasing the amount of deadly space radiation that penetrates our atmosphere.


'Death Star' Gamma-Ray Gun Pointed Straight at Earth


animated image of WR104's spiral.

It looks like we will dodge the bullet with a margin to spare. I have to admit, it does give me pause for consideration of how insignificant and helpless humanity really is when confronted with the vastness of the Universe.

edit on 4-9-2011 by Drunkenparrot because: (no reason given)



this pic is what it would look like, the top photo. not like the one in the HUFFINGTON POST ILLUSTRATION. Faky liars

edit on 4-9-2011 by cloaked4u because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by cloaked4u
 


Actually, yes that is correct and to scale. It will be bright enough to be seen easily in the daytime and at night will be brighter than the full moon.


The supernova could brighten to an apparent magnitude of −12 over a two-week period, then remain at that intensity for 2 to 3 months before rapidly dimming.


Betelgeuse

I always make it a point to verify the accuracy before hitting the reply key.


edit on 4-9-2011 by Drunkenparrot because: forgot link



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