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An Answer to: Why not just say "Look this and this will happen so, do this and that"?

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posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 03:02 PM
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With the rise of personal visions in the Threads lately, I see a lot of people that do not understand why a simple statement like "touch the fire and you get burned" is not used in the attempt to get people to take the step toward further spiritual growth or in the attempt to forward a warning. I have decided to take a moment and attempt to answer and explain this dilemma in a logical way. Here is the problem, this is an attempt to show in a logical way an Non-logical understanding. Notice I used the word "non-logical" and not "illogical".

Consciousness works in a non-logical way. Logic is formed within the physical world to explain physical processes, as in science. This is not how consciousness works in the Universe at large and it is not how the Universal consciousness works either. Logic is putting a+b=c, a step by step process. In the Universe it is more like a and b create c. Does that make sense? You might be saying "its the same thing" but really it's not.

Logical creation is done by taking known processes and putting them together to create, like, Hydrogen with oxygen to make water. The consciousness creates by directing energy through visualization and using the Power of emotion/desire to create, then lowering the vibrational frequency in order to manifest into the physical. Even scientists use this process, as this is how consciousness works. They form an idea(visualization) and through focus(the power) there is trial and error(emotion/desire) to discover and/or create. The Universal consciousness knows that hydrogen and oxygen create water but the one using it may not. Therefore, the visualization of water and the emotion/desire of its creation put the parts of the physical together. So, as you see, following these rules, a step by step process is not possible within the non-physical universal consciousness.

Another way to explain it is through the example of different languages. If you speak English and you are attempting to portray an idea to someone who speaks German, it is almost impossible without the use of hand gestures, pictures, etc. The same is true with the Universal consciousness. Logic and consciousness are two separate and distinct languages and the only way to communicate is through images and emotions, thus the use of visions and parables. The Universe just does not speak, it shows.

When someone has a vision, they must interpret that vision into logic in order to understand the message. Many times this is not possible to explain because of limited language vocabulary, not by the person, but by the description. Sometimes a message just can not be converted from pictures to words. Another reason is that sometimes an image can be described or interpreted in several ways and it is for the observer to understand.

When someone has a vision, most times it is easier to just give the feelings and images when expressing the message so those that the message is for will get what they need to understand(sometimes the message is lost in translation as well). Most time the message is for the observer and not for others but it is shared in the attempt to comprehend the scope or depth of the message.

I hope this helps you to understand the process of Universal communication.
edit on 3-9-2011 by Agarta because: I Altered the title




posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by Agarta
 



S+F for you sir.
Very well said.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by Agarta
 


It is interesting. I wonder if that is how Hieroglyphs originally developed? I do know that visual aid teaching can occur without any words. I can make a detailed power point, with just pictures, arrows and emoticons


One thing I think is common in theological or spiritual teaching is the use of the metaphor. You aren't directly explaining, you are indirectly explaining by use of more relevant examples. It's kind of how a poet's job is to express in words the feelings and atmosphere of experience in a way it's interpretation comes from the recreated feelings from the audience, instead of say the plot or theme.

Same goes with allegories which are much easier to remember. I mean if you are trying to teach right from wrong, a story that flows logically in terms of actions and consequences sticks.



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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People are afraid of being ridiculed, you can only walk the path if you lay the stones yourself ,and the way is opening mind and heart.

The truth is stranger than fiction, so for a lot of people who have seen things this is all a test of faith.

I can only tell that the truth will show itself when it's time.

GM


edit on 3-9-2011 by Grey Magic because: edited bad linking



posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by Agarta
 


Your threads are thought provoking indeed!
I definitely think this helps explain a few things...

Great explanation and...


*S&F*






posted on Sep, 3 2011 @ 04:48 PM
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Very well said, S&F!!!

Even in the same language, very different meanings can be attributed to the same word - often without either party realizing their interpretation is different from the other.

I believe it boils down to our trying to extrude out energy signatures into a more material substance in order to share/express them - whether that energy is experienced as emotional, spiritual, physical, etc. But that's a whole 'nother discussion.

Thanks for taking the time to put this together - much better for my mojo to concentrate on these discussions then the madness surrounding us sometimes.



posted on Sep, 4 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Agarta
With the rise of personal visions in the Threads lately, I see a lot of people that do not understand why a simple statement like "touch the fire and you get burned" is not used in the attempt to get people to take the step toward further spiritual growth or in the attempt to forward a warning. I have decided to take a moment and attempt to answer and explain this dilemma in a logical way. Here is the problem, this is an attempt to show in a logical way an Non-logical understanding. Notice I used the word "non-logical" and not "illogical".

Consciousness works in a non-logical way. Logic is formed within the physical world to explain physical processes, as in science. This is not how consciousness works in the Universe at large and it is not how the Universal consciousness works either. Logic is putting a+b=c, a step by step process. In the Universe it is more like a and b create c. Does that make sense? You might be saying "its the same thing" but really it's not.

Logical creation is done by taking known processes and putting them together to create, like, Hydrogen with oxygen to make water. The consciousness creates by directing energy through visualization and using the Power of emotion/desire to create, then lowering the vibrational frequency in order to manifest into the physical. Even scientists use this process, as this is how consciousness works. They form an idea(visualization) and through focus(the power) there is trial and error(emotion/desire) to discover and/or create. The Universal consciousness knows that hydrogen and oxygen create water but the one using it may not. Therefore, the visualization of water and the emotion/desire of its creation put the parts of the physical together. So, as you see, following these rules, a step by step process is not possible within the non-physical universal consciousness.

Another way to explain it is through the example of different languages. If you speak English and you are attempting to portray an idea to someone who speaks German, it is almost impossible without the use of hand gestures, pictures, etc. The same is true with the Universal consciousness. Logic and consciousness are two separate and distinct languages and the only way to communicate is through images and emotions, thus the use of visions and parables. The Universe just does not speak, it shows.

When someone has a vision, they must interpret that vision into logic in order to understand the message. Many times this is not possible to explain because of limited language vocabulary, not by the person, but by the description. Sometimes a message just can not be converted from pictures to words. Another reason is that sometimes an image can be described or interpreted in several ways and it is for the observer to understand.

When someone has a vision, most times it is easier to just give the feelings and images when expressing the message so those that the message is for will get what they need to understand(sometimes the message is lost in translation as well). Most time the message is for the observer and not for others but it is shared in the attempt to comprehend the scope or depth of the message.

I hope this helps you to understand the process of Universal communication.
edit on 3-9-2011 by Agarta because: I Altered the title


I agree there have been many personal threads when maybe there was no need for them to be. It could just be the the authors wrighting style too.

I believe consciousness does work in logical way. It does not mean I understand how it works fully, but the pecies I have seen work I can inturpet them logicaly. Take your example of a+b=c I think that a+b=c and a and b create c are the same. Because lets say I had a+d wouldn't = c a+d =f. So with that idea the + and the word create are related how I'm not sure. I really do believe that consciousness works in a logical way we just haven't understood it so it appears non-logical.

Consciousness creates everything. It is very possible that is what happend. ALot of religions say simmilar things. But I don't know if that is how everything came to be and I don't see why I need to say what I believe in. what I mean is I don't want to come out and make a decision that I have yet to make within myself. In time I might make the decision who knows I might die still saying I don't know.

I'm intersteded in if you can explain something non-logical, because I have a logical mind so I have trouble understanding. I see non-logical things but they usally are small and just pecies of the large thing and when I zoom out I see the larger thing it is then logical because all the pecies fit together. so I see non-logical as an illusion. so I'm intersted in finding something out there that just is non-logical no matter ho you look at it.



posted on Sep, 20 2011 @ 11:50 PM
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The challenges of language to communicate effectively in matters of spiritual experiences is one that has captured my interest, especially of late. Today I was reading a passage which I though spoke eloquently on the topic. I thought I would share it here.

It is in the introduction of a very infamous book about a specific experience, "The Invisible Landscape," (Terence and Dennis McKenna, 1975) but it is not my intention to derail the topic off onto the merits of that specific work. However, in discussing the presentation of the material into three logical categories, the authors state:


"though certainly in our own subjective experience,...these categories have tended to migrate toward each other, leading, as we anticipated, to an understanding that seems to hover at the very edge of language while being clearly rooted in the sphere of congition."

My own experience is that the deeper you go, the more language can only be a signpost. That certainly makes these subjects on ATS challenging indeed.



posted on Sep, 21 2011 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by Agarta
 


You wrote:

["Consciousness works in a non-logical way. Logic is formed within the physical world to explain physical processes, as in science."]

Mainly true, but not exclusively so. Abstract conceptualizations can occasionally turn out to be logically and pragmatically correct.

Quote: [" Logic is putting a+b=c, a step by step process. In the Universe it is more like a and b create c. Does that make sense? You might be saying "its the same thing" but really it's not."]

A reasonable option. "The totality is greater than the sum of the parts"-concept, which is demonstrable as in e.g. self-organizing growing complexity.

Quote: ["The consciousness creates by directing energy through visualization and using the Power of emotion/desire to create, then lowering the vibrational frequency in order to manifest into the physical."]

This is plain speculation, based on some presumed pseudo-axiomatic cosmology. There are no known 'ultimate-reality' up-and-down-gradings as a fixed reference-point.



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