Do Not Trust Your School

I found this article and found what it says to be very true.

Do Not Trust Your School

�Rulers have always taken care to control the education of the people. They know their power is based almost entirely on the school�The school is an instrument of domination for the ruling class.�
Francisco Ferrer, Anarchist of the �Free School Movement�

School claims to teach us what we need by giving us the necessary skills to take care of ourselves. But the system is not interested in helping us, only in how we can help them. Fact is, the tasks of school go way beyond what we�re taught in the curriculum:

1. Teach us to �respect authority�
How many times has a teacher shouted �How dare you talk back to me!� at you? Now how many times have you heard that from a cop or boss? By placing a teacher in the role of our parent/guardian, respect for (or fear of) authority is taught by punishment for not doing what you�re told and rewards for conformity. You have to obey rules like taking your hat off in class no matter how stupid they are. This teaches us not to talk back whenever those in authority tell us what to do whether they�re our boss, cops, politicians or our teacher.

Do Not Trust Your School

Have a read of it and see what you think. I agree with the points made in the article.

If you don�t trust or respect any authorities,
Do you respect experience?
Cause if you don�t respect anything,
how can you ever learn anything and gain experience?
Respect those who have more experience and learn from them...

your talking about elementary- middle schools right?? I dont initimidation in college (not in highschool either), in fact challenging authority is welcomed!

but i was told to shut up by my teachers in private catholic elementary school. I wish i knew then what i know now, i didnt have to shut up.



[edit on 8/22/2004 by s13guy]

I certainly do not trust the public school systems. I haven't since I was in school and that has been a while. I have kids that were in the public system. I pulled them out and they are now home schooled. Public schools have only one interest and that is moving kids through. Where I live the school system will only hold your kid back I believe twice. After that they will be advanced whether they know the material or not. It is a sad statement when attendance is mandatory but success is not. The material I give my kids is far more advanced than anything the public schools would ever dream of giving a kid. I have them learning two foreign languages. This is in addition to the core requirements which I have set up to be much more difficult than required. Also it is my goal to teach my children critical thinking skills. I can do more in 3 to 4 hours than the school system can in 8 hours. And my kids are much happier as a result. And better off.

Although my son would agree with every point on this, it is wrong. It is the lack of discipline and the lack of respect that is causing our children�s generation to become appalling. I have no time for these mongrels who think that they own the world. They have no respect for their peers or them elders. As I once said before I was sword at by a young kid that was no more than 4 and he also made fun of my momma. I mean what kind of influence has been set.

Let me tell you why I think this has happened:

-school is no longer properly disciplined

-parents are often irresponsible and give their children whatever they want

-lack of overall discipline from authorities

1. School is no longer properly disaplined:

Back when I was a child you would get the strap. You didn�t even think of doing anything bad after awhile because the thought was blotted out by pain (could�ve been delta with better). Now a days they suspend the kid. Now what is suspending? Well my child has not been suspended but several of his friends have. Apparently it is nothing; my son is constantly talking about children who get out of school suspensions and how much fun they have not having to be in school! What kind of BS is this! The kids don�t want to learn so why are you allowing them to leave the school!

As well kids get away with countless things like:
Pencil stabbing, swearing, fighting, vandalism and even selling lockers!


2. Parents are often irresponsible and give their children whatever they want:

Oh mom, I really really want doom 3 (nothing against it). Sry honny but we don�t have enough money.
Ill run away if you don�t give it to me! OH FINE
Instead of not spoiling their kids they need to teach them the value of a dollar. My child is a prime example of not knowing how much money is worth. I thought I taught him well but apparently his friends get 20$ a week allowance for doing nothing! Oh it�s only 20$ dad. 20$!!! You want me to explain what I could do with 20$ that you couldn�t!!!

3. Lack of overall discipline from authorities:

The cops in my city are pointless. They do nothing to enforce laws like wearing helmets for kids. The law was put in a few years ago and has not been enforced. Kids get away with it all the time and I have not seen any of them get a fine. Self explanatory.


What is the point of all this? Well it is not the abundance of discipline; it�s the lack of it. I am not saying that we should get rid of free will etc but if things don�t start turning around murder will be a very common occurrence. Sorry for going a bit off topic but I thought it was necessary to get my point across

Originally posted by Hellmutt
If you don�t trust or respect any authorities,
Do you respect experience?
Cause if you don�t respect anything,
how can you ever learn anything and gain experience?
Respect those who have more experience and learn from them...

If you equate experience to wisdom then yes I agree you should respect those who are wise. However, The article was not about respecting your elders (who aren't always right) It was about the state of schools.

Originally posted by s13guy
your talking about elementary- middle schools right?? I dont initimidation in college (not in highschool either), in fact challenging authority is welcomed!

but i was told to shut up by my teachers in private catholic elementary school. I wish i knew then what i know now, i didnt have to shut up.



[edit on 8/22/2004 by s13guy]

Yes I am refering to schools in the UK where it is law that you must go to school until you are 16. A law I believe is foolish. School attendance should not be compulsory. Some people are not suited to academic study and would be better of learning a trade e.g construction or woodwork.

Yeah thats great Eddie. Give someone with the inability to learn some nice power tools

What you said is very true Indy and I think it is good you are teaching your children yourself, I bet you do a much better job.

Originally posted by SirKillallott

1. School is no longer properly disaplined:

Back when I was a child you would get the strap. You didn�t even think of doing anything bad after awhile because the thought was blotted out by pain (could�ve been delta with better). Now a days they suspend the kid. Now what is suspending? Well my child has not been suspended but several of his friends have. Apparently it is nothing; my son is constantly talking about children who get out of school suspensions and how much fun they have not having to be in school! What kind of BS is this! The kids don�t want to learn so why are you allowing them to leave the school!

As well kids get away with countless things like:
Pencil stabbing, swearing, fighting, vandalism and even selling lockers!

I really do hope you are not advocating corporal punishment. Negative re-enforcement, corporal punishment in other words, is wrong. Agreeing with it is agreeing with criminals having their hands cut off in Saudi, or people being stoned in Iran.

2. Parents are often irresponsible and give their children whatever they want:

Oh mom, I really really want doom 3 (nothing against it). Sry honny but we don�t have enough money.
Ill run away if you don�t give it to me! OH FINE
Instead of not spoiling their kids they need to teach them the value of a dollar. My child is a prime example of not knowing how much money is worth. I thought I taught him well but apparently his friends get 20$ a week allowance for doing nothing! Oh it�s only 20$ dad. 20$!!! You want me to explain what I could do with 20$ that you couldn�t!!!

I admit youth does need to learn the value of money and the value of work. I blame the media and advertisng for making children massively materialistic and making them pester their parents.

3. Lack of overall discipline from authorities:

The cops in my city are pointless. They do nothing to enforce laws like wearing helmets for kids. The law was put in a few years ago and has not been enforced. Kids get away with it all the time and I have not seen any of them get a fine. Self explanatory.


What is the point of all this? Well it is not the abundance of discipline; it�s the lack of it. I am not saying that we should get rid of free will etc but if things don�t start turning around murder will be a very common occurrence. Sorry for going a bit off topic but I thought it was necessary to get my point across

I disagree with you. I do not think discipline is what holds society together. I admit that people should try to observe and keep the laws (unless the laws are wrong and unjust) but you cannot have some ultra-strict military like society akin to '1984' where everyone follows orders and does not question authority.

A certain amount of rebellion and distrust of authority is vital in my opinion.

Originally posted by Indy
Yeah thats great Eddie. Give someone with the inability to learn some nice power tools

Thats very true! Seriously though what I am trying to say is that some people are not suited to sitting in a classroom day in day out reading and writing. Not everyone is intelligent enough to do it. (Please note I am not trying to sound snobby or superior in any way here)

They would be better of being taught to do something practical and learning a valuable skill society needs.

You are right Eddie. I look at my neighbors as proof of what you say. This isn't a very bright group. It is a family of about 7 I believe. I am being nice when I say the smartest person in that family has learning problems. The smartest of the bunch is a girl that is now about 16. She has a 2 year old and is taking classes at school that qualify as special learning. Three of the girls in that family have become pregnant before the age of 15. The 3rd girl is pregnant at 14. The other two had kids around the same age. The 13 year old is currently dating a guy MUCH older and I promise she will be knocked up by this time next year. Their boy who is about 9 years old was over not too long ago. He has an intelligence level of about a 1st grader. He was telling me about all the times his older sisters have been held back in school. Nice. Share it with the world why don't you. Its unlikely the parents have completed school and in that family a higher education would be considered a GED. It is sad. No one in that family has a future. At least not a good one. None of them will go to college and most of the kids will be unlikely to finish school. And the worst part is they breed early and often

Originally posted by Eddie999
I really do hope you are not advocating corporal punishment. Negative re-enforcement, corporal punishment in other words, is wrong. Agreeing with it is agreeing with criminals having their hands cut off in Saudi, or people being stoned in Iran.

No I am not advocating corporal punishment but I do really think that these kids should not be allowed such a loose leash as to allow them to hurt each other. I am not saying they should bring the strap back, nor am I saying they should come up with some other physical punishment. I am trying to point out that the kids are let out on a leash that goes so far that they get run over. I would suggest doing some sort of punishment that they would not enjoy yet would not be harmful (like community service).

Originally posted by Eddie999
I disagree with you. I do not think discipline is what holds society together. I admit that people should try to observe and keep the laws (unless the laws are wrong and unjust) but you cannot have some ultra-strict military like society akin to '1984' where everyone follows orders and does not question authority.

A certain amount of rebellion and distrust of authority is vital in my opinion.

Yes you have a point in that but there are certain laws that people get away with on a daily basis with no idea as to what they are doing. Speeding is a prime example as they are putting themselves and others in danger. Although speeding is often hard to determine and can be quite tedious and annoying as everyone pretty much does it.

The law that states kids under the age of 18 must wear a helmet while riding a bike is nothing new to us now. We have had a long time for it to settle in and I have found no re-enforcement of it whatsoever. Not only can a helmet save your life it is now the law! Yet I see no kid wearing a helmet. When a cop happens to pass by them they do nothing. Is this what we should expect from our protectors?

I am not at all saying that you should keep everyone locked up in their houses in fear of being ticketed or arrested; I am trying to say that it has gotten out of hand in some areas.

As well, lately I have been parked into my drive way on several occasions by people in the apartment next to me. They think that they are allowed to park in front of my driveway. I have had to phone by-law on several occasions and they never come!! They say that�s nice and then pretty much hang up. So I am forced to find an alternative route to my work because no one will do anything about it. Just an example although somewhat off topic.

I believe that there needs to be a proper balance between a short and long leash. Right now the leash is way to long and needs to be shortened to a point were everyone is happy.

Originally posted by Eddie999
Yes I am refering to schools in the UK where it is law that you must go to school until you are 16. A law I believe is foolish. School attendance should not be compulsory. Some people are not suited to academic study and would be better of learning a trade e.g construction or woodwork.

Yea some people are not suited to academic study and would be better learning a trade. The option should be open to a younger age but I believe that the schools should be the ones providing the teaching for the trade that you would wish to go into. This would avoid many awkward occurrences and would allow the child to have previous education on the subject before entering the trade.

[edit on 8/22/2004 by SirKillallott]

I've never been told by my teachers -- ever -- not to talk back to them... probably because I wouldn't anyway; but I've never heard them say it to anyone else, either.

I went to a private catholic HS and middle school... they weren't idiots there either... except maybe the "dean of discipline". He was a general f-tard who had a thing against me even though I didn't do anything... I stared him down a few times too

Oooh those were the days

Re education -- I think the social aspect of schools encourages kids to go, rather than the actual education, because face it, during HS and MS, no one wants to go to school... it's much more fun to stay at home and play video games!

Although most schools have a horrid social structure which causes many problems for lots of kids, which may result in mental problems when they become older, it's not all bad.

If someone wants to drop out of school because they don't want to learn, I think they should be sent to do some hard labor for not much money ... like working in a quary or a mine or something.

Education is everything: it stops violence, ends wars, and makes people just generally more civil to each other -- even to a point where there would be no animosity between anyone (although we're really far from that).

The educational system here is flawed, yes; but private schools offer a choice that I think people should choose if they can.

I would homeschool my kids if I couldn't afford a private school, but private schools offer the social aspect of childhood, and that's very very important for development of communication skills and persona.

Anyway... enough of my senseless rant

- Hawk

There IS a huge lack of individual attention for each child in the public schools here. Public schooling usually has a "cookie cutter" mentality. I homeschooled my youngest and she is more sociable and better mannered than her peers. She also seems to be more mature.
I homeschooled her because indeed I do not trust the local public school system.
Lumping all children into groups is not always in their best interests. Each child is an individual and has their own learning style.
Schools do need to be reformed. I don't know how this would be accomplished though.

Originally posted by SirKillallott

I would suggest doing some sort of punishment that they would not enjoy yet would not be harmful (like community service).

I think that is a good idea. They should give something back to the community that they have wronged. An excellent suggestion indeed.

Speeding is a prime example as they are putting themselves and others in danger. Although speeding is often hard to determine and can be quite tedious and annoying as everyone pretty much does it.

I agree with you again that speeding is an annoying crime that puts lives at risk and is done by many. Another example of a minor crime like that is people talking on mobile phones when driving. This has been made illegal in the UK but I still see people doing it. Even if they are caught the punishment is only a small fine. Their phone should at least be destoyed with a large hammer in front of them.

As well, lately I have been parked into my drive way on several occasions by people in the apartment next to me. They think that they are allowed to park in front of my driveway. I have had to phone by-law on several occasions and they never come!! They say that�s nice and then pretty much hang up. So I am forced to find an alternative route to my work because no one will do anything about it. Just an example although somewhat off topic.

I assume that is very annoying. You want to rent a tow truck and move the car yourself, like off the edge off a cliff or something. People who do annoying things like blocking you in are just ignorant in my opinion.

Originally posted by Eddie999
I agree with you again that speeding is an annoying crime that puts lives at risk and is done by many. Another example of a minor crime like that is people talking on mobile phones when driving. This has been made illegal in the UK but I still see people doing it. Even if they are caught the punishment is only a small fine. Their phone should at least be destoyed with a large hammer in front of them.

Cell phones are still alowed while driving here in Edmonton but you can often tell that many people on the phone would rather talk to who ever they are talking to than pay attention to where they are going.

Originally posted by Eddie999
I assume that is very annoying. You want to rent a tow truck and move the car yourself, like off the edge off a cliff or something. People who do annoying things like blocking you in are just ignorant in my opinion.

That might not be a bad idea. I think they could use a little bit of brute force

wow im stuck in a currupt education system or something, we start school tomorrow.

I agree with that fact that the "leash" needs to be shortened a bit. Some of the kids in my HS have been getting into multiple fights throughout the year, and then they get suspended or whatever, and then the do it again the next year. Community service would be a good idea, or something like cleaning the desks (they already make us do that).

I am also one of the students who has never had to be told "don't talk back to me" or anything of the sort. The teachers I have are really fun, and they are pretty much the whole reason I go to school. I want to get a good education and learn new things, but if I didn't have the teachers that I have now, I don't think I would be doing so well.

Aside from the fact that we don't have any ROTC programs nearby, our school does fairly well. We start school on the 31st of August. We are in the middle of a renovation project. I think the only problem with the schools nowadays, is, as said before, the consequences that the students are given.

One year in a New Jersey elementary school scarred me for life.

-Becs

Originally posted by DanTodd
wow im stuck in a currupt education system or something, we start school tomorrow.

lmao

first week is nothing anyways