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New Overtime Rules Start Monday

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posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 02:23 PM
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In what I believe is the worst piece of legislation to ever get passed the new overtime rules take effect on Monday. Millions of Americans will no longer be eligible for overtime pay. Only few new people will become eligible. The government is supposed to service the people. These new rules clearly do not do this. They simply reward businesses for mismanaging their staff and not setting up proper staffing levels. This will certainly be abused many times over.

"Estimates of how many workers will lose their overtime eligibility range from 107,000 to 6 million. Workers who could become newly eligible range from very few to 1.3 million."

Source: www.foxnews.com...




posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 03:11 PM
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When you actually read the articles everyone keeps linking to or parts of the legislation-
they pretty openly state that people who are making very little yearly are becoming eligable... most of the people becoming ineligable are the extremely wealthy.

I don't understand what the problem is really. If someone is making $40/hour that makes their overtime $60/hour. This means if you pay this person regular rather than overtime pay, you could hire one of your $10/hour employees for an extra two hours that week and help the families that are struggling to get by rather than the ones who just want an extra ski-doo.
(if you get technical and calculate their withholdings the employer matches and all that, you could actually give them a little more than 2 hours with different tax rates, etc.)
There is a huge difference between someone who makes an extra $5/hour for it to be overtime and someone who makes and extra $20!


Doesn't there come a point where a person is making enough that it gets silly to pay them more? My company has employees that cost about $80/hour for us to have on overtime (and those are the blue collar carpenters!)



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 03:24 PM
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What does it matter what a person makes? If you work over 40 hours in a week you should be entitled to additional compensation. And this isn't about the very wealthy. This impacts anyone with a degree. Look at the medical field. Nurses will be inelligible. These people certainly are not wealthy. And many have had to pay quite a bit for their education. $20 an hour is not wealthy. What does that give you? $800 a week. Sound like alot? Take out takes. Now you are down to $640 a week or less. Don't forget insurance. If you have a family you can subtract an additional $75 a week from that number. So now you are down to $565 a week. And you haven't added a penny into a 401k yet. So you are taking home less than $2500 a month. Who here thinks taking that kind of money home makes you rich? By the time you pay rent, a car payment and insurance for your car you are down to $1200 or $1300 a month. You haven't even paid your utilities yet or for your groceries. What about school supplies for your kids? What about co-payments at the doctors or co-payments for prescriptions? $20 an hour sounds like alot but it really isn't.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 03:35 PM
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I think it should be for the truly wealthy people. THey shouldnot get over pay if they are making ove $100/hr. Anything under that and i mean anyhting under that should be eligible for overtime pay.

This is not only a neccesity for some peopl ( i know not fro some people who are makin $80 and hour or people around that ammount) I mean it also matters wehre you live and the cost of living. Heck where i live $20 hr. is pretty good you can live decently if you have to. But $20 and hr. in NYC or DC or another big city isnt that much.

Also being someone over this past sumemr that did work for a business and did not recieve overpay i can speak how its pretty crazy. Yes i am just 18yr old and its a summer job but the money wasnt realyl it. I work for like 60hr. a week. ANd pretty much anything after 40-45 hr. jsut starts gettting to your head. I mean you start to go alil bit nutty workin in someplace for over 2days straight (the combination of tiem) I mean and alil ecxtra compisation would make it alot better to bear the burden.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 04:32 PM
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Why should it matter what you make? Making $100 an hour doesn't lessen the value of time you spend with your family. If an employer is going to work you over 40 hours a week they should pay the price for it. If they cannot properly staff their workforce then they should suffer the consequences. They shouldn't be rewarded for it. This is all about wealth shifting. This is so a few people can make even more money. If you get paid overtime it means the CEO cannot make his millions of dollars in bonuses like he wants. So cut the pay of the little guy so he can buy another boat.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 05:41 PM
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Well, all i have to say is if I fall under this new overtime rule, my company can kiss my ass after 40hr. No more OT for them, since working longer is doing them the favor. No more.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 07:49 PM
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The problem is that after a while, if you keep doing everything to screw over the "big guys" eventually they can't afford to hire anyone. As in all the people who don't believe they can start their own business can't get a job because nobody can afford to hire them.

Yes, it affects large corporations, but it also will effect smaller ones, when you lay too many burdons on companies who try to hire Americans- why would ANY company in their right minds hire someone who is American? If we constantly try to think of the individuals and screw the business owners how long do you expect them to take it?
It starts to become a bad business decision.

Everyone complains about outsourcing right now and keeps saying we need to offer some incentive to keep jobs open here, then when SOMETHING helpful comes up- everyone whines about that too. They didn't drop minimum wage or take away the need to match fed. and state withholdings- they didn't make you pay for your own unemployment tax or compensations taxes (all of which might make the average citizen realize they can cost 2-3 times their actual wage and make most people totally screwed because they can't afford themselves!)

I am not saying companies shouldn't hire US citizens, but seriously if you were trying to run a company and you could either hire Indians for $50/week and expand your business or hire US guys for $20/hour, listen to them whine about how they don't make enough and need more and run yourself out of business due to their taxes and regulations- what would you really do?



Originally posted by Indy
Why should it matter what you make? Making $100 an hour doesn't lessen the value of time you spend with your family. If an employer is going to work you over 40 hours a week they should pay the price for it. If they cannot properly staff their workforce then they should suffer the consequences. They shouldn't be rewarded for it. This is all about wealth shifting. This is so a few people can make even more money. If you get paid overtime it means the CEO cannot make his millions of dollars in bonuses like he wants. So cut the pay of the little guy so he can buy another boat.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 07:52 PM
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Who exactly does this effect?



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 09:40 PM
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Directly, it effects people making less than about 20k (who all become eligable for OT pay), those who make over 100k (who become ineligable), and the people who have employees and have to pay people to work for them.

Indirectly it can effect the people who could be able to get a job when companies save money from not having to pay the overtime. Sure, they are going to be jobs at the lower end of the job scale, but at least it will be something rather than not having a job at all. Now you have an additional person employed at the expense of a 120k/year employee getting extra toys and gadgets. (i love toys and gadgets, but do myself give them up for the sake of helping others have employment and I sleep better knowing I do the right thing rather than the selfish)


Originally posted by LadyV
Who exactly does this effect?



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by Indy
What does it matter what a person makes? If you work over 40 hours in a week you should be entitled to additional compensation. And this isn't about the very wealthy. This impacts anyone with a degree. Look at the medical field. Nurses will be inelligible. These people certainly are not wealthy. And many have had to pay quite a bit for their education. $20 an hour is not wealthy. What does that give you? $800 a week. Sound like alot? Take out takes. Now you are down to $640 a week or less. Don't forget insurance. If you have a family you can subtract an additional $75 a week from that number. So now you are down to $565 a week. And you haven't added a penny into a 401k yet. So you are taking home less than $2500 a month. Who here thinks taking that kind of money home makes you rich? By the time you pay rent, a car payment and insurance for your car you are down to $1200 or $1300 a month. You haven't even paid your utilities yet or for your groceries. What about school supplies for your kids? What about co-payments at the doctors or co-payments for prescriptions? $20 an hour sounds like alot but it really isn't.




Very well put



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 09:59 PM
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I'd like to know what jobs there were that paid under 20k that were exempt from OT.

blanketgirl... if you don't want to pay OT then properly staff your company. That responsibility is yours and not your workers. Don't deny them pay because you cannot properly manage your business. When I say YOU and YOUR I am speaking of the hypothetical business owner. And if you want to pay Indians $50 a week then sell your widgets only to Indianas for whatever you think they can afford to buy them for. Maybe $1 per unit. Don't go and use them at $50 a week and think you are going to see your product to me for $10 a unit. Don't run to congress to pass laws to cover for your inadequicies as a business manager. I'd recommend doing a better job instead. No one is telling them to pay more per hour for normal work. But if you are going to go over 40 which starts to impact that persons home life they you are going to properly compensate them for that. A 40 hour work week is a very fair number.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 10:08 PM
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Additional Notes:

When you disqualify people from OT you also cut jobs. Yes. Cut jobs. Why? You no longer have insentive to have proper staff load. You no longer are penalized for overworking people. Why have 3 people on staff to work 40 hours a week and pay benefits for 3 people when you can simply overwork two people at 60 hours a week?

It always says that there is no longer a nursing shortage. The demand for new workers just went away. Feel free to overwork your existing staff. You no longer have to pay them OT. The burdern of your poor planning has just been removed from your shoulders. Do you really want fatigued medical personnel working on you? I sure don't.

If a person has been professionally trained and they are decorated (like a degree) they are no longer eligible (for the most part). That is also how you reward someone for hard work. Because you worked hard and educated yourself your work and family now are valued less.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by Indy
In what I believe is the worst piece of legislation to ever get passed the new overtime rules take effect on Monday.


Like I've said in other posts- VOTE

If you don't like the laws get the @#$%rd's out. Vote a new set in as often as it takes to get the point across.

Otherwise- whine



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 10:31 PM
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Give me a break. Voting in this country is meaningless. Unless you vote with your checkbook. And you better have a large bank balance. Going to the polling place is just symbolic. Lobyists vote early and often. You can't compete with that.



posted on Aug, 22 2004 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by Indy
Give me a break. Voting in this country is meaningless. Unless you vote with your checkbook. And you better have a large bank balance. Going to the polling place is just symbolic. Lobyists vote early and often. You can't compete with that.


Then DON'T complain when they do harmful things to you



posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 08:53 AM
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There are just as many people who work overtime because they WANT to make more money as those who are made to. Maybe it is just the people I've always known, but the only people I have EVER known who were made to work overtime were those who were on salary anyways. The rest of them all decided to do it because they wanted the premium pay. At that point, I don't think it's fair that somebody should have to pay you more because you wanted to work more. It was your greedy choice, not their stupidity.


OT pay is designed to help people from being overworked, but we have adapted to it seeing it as a right- which means it is no longer a protective measure, but one that is being taken advantage of. It is to protect those people who can easily get sucked in to working 60 hours a week because their making minimum wage and can't afford to step up and complain.
It is not designed to be a benefit or a way to make quick cash- which is how people have started taking it.

Re: outsourcing-
Do you buy ONLY 100% made in your country goods? Exclusively? So you only support your fellow citizens, right? because if you don't than you really don't have room to complain. That $15 pair of pants would cost $60 if all materials and work were done in the US just for the company to break even. I don't know the answer, but with the burdons put on business owners in our current economy, everyone wants the extras to be in somebody else's hands, we have uber-powerful corporations because smaller ones can't get a foothold with all the expenses. Everything my parents have is on the line when they run their business, and most of their employees make more than they do because they are "the man" and therefore the evil ones with all the money. But the employees who have no worries, no real responsibilities with the company sit back, make the money and complain about how they never get enough. Funny as it is, my dad fully owned his house, spent 3 months of the year boating and vacationed half of his time until he started his own business-
now he has sold everything, mortgaged his home and every few months gets a few days off- but his employees have no problem complaining about how they couldn't get a better new car, or how they want a better (completely free to them) insurance!

Every time a measure is taken that might help a small business owner, everyone jumps up and protests enough that virtually all of our small businesses are going bankrupt.

If an economy is going to be fair to everyone, everyone has to cooperate, not constantly make themselves the exception that doesn't need to follow the rule. Buy US made products, support small businesses- go buy produce at a farm instead of walmart or meijer- when you go to work realize that you are a vital part of someone's dream and a needed part of the mechanism regardless of what you do. You should not be there to take advantage of your employer anymore than they are there to take advantage of you- and if you aren't doing your part you shouldn't have the right to complain about them not doing theirs.



Originally posted by Indy
I'd like to know what jobs there were that paid under 20k that were exempt from OT.

blanketgirl... if you don't want to pay OT then properly staff your company. That responsibility is yours and not your workers. Don't deny them pay because you cannot properly manage your business. When I say YOU and YOUR I am speaking of the hypothetical business owner. And if you want to pay Indians $50 a week then sell your widgets only to Indianas for whatever you think they can afford to buy them for. Maybe $1 per unit. Don't go and use them at $50 a week and think you are going to see your product to me for $10 a unit. Don't run to congress to pass laws to cover for your inadequicies as a business manager. I'd recommend doing a better job instead. No one is telling them to pay more per hour for normal work. But if you are going to go over 40 which starts to impact that persons home life they you are going to properly compensate them for that. A 40 hour work week is a very fair number.



posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 09:18 AM
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Well, this happens to be a shocker to me. I never heard of this until today, but this doesnt seem like something a Republican would do... Cutting the benefits of the wealthy? Seems like a Democrat to me... Though, I'm new to this political stuff so I may be wrong.

Anyway, I'm dirt poor so this doesnt effect me...... or does it?



posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by blanketgirl
There are just as many people who work overtime because they WANT to make more money as those who are made to. Maybe it is just the people I've always known, but the only people I have EVER known who were made to work overtime were those who were on salary anyways. The rest of them all decided to do it because they wanted the premium pay. At that point, I don't think it's fair that somebody should have to pay you more because you wanted to work more. It was your greedy choice, not their stupidity.


There are many hourly employees forced to work overtime--this law especially applies to nurses. In NYC, for example, there is a severe shortage of registered nurses and overtime is a fact of life. Now nurses will still have to work significant overtime and most will not be paid for it. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be treated by an overworked and disgruntled nurse.



OT pay is designed to help people from being overworked, but we have adapted to it seeing it as a right- which means it is no longer a protective measure, but one that is being taken advantage of. It is to protect those people who can easily get sucked in to working 60 hours a week because their making minimum wage and can't afford to step up and complain.
It is not designed to be a benefit or a way to make quick cash- which is how people have started taking it.


True, there are opportunites to increase income with overtime, but there are still are many situations were workers are protected by overtime. By removing these protections many workers will be put in jeopardy of being subject to unfair management practices.


Every time a measure is taken that might help a small business owner, everyone jumps up and protests enough that virtually all of our small businesses are going bankrupt.


Unfortunately, history has revealed that many (not all) business owners do not posess the ethics to properly treat their employees. In the case of small business, there is not enough oversight and these businesses fall under the radar. Labor laws were designed to protect these people. The cost of doing business in the US is rising, but relief should not come at the expense of the individual worker.


If an economy is going to be fair to everyone, everyone has to cooperate, not constantly make themselves the exception that doesn't need to follow the rule. Buy US made products, support small businesses- go buy produce at a farm instead of walmart or meijer- when you go to work realize that you are a vital part of someone's dream and a needed part of the mechanism regardless of what you do. You should not be there to take advantage of your employer anymore than they are there to take advantage of you- and if you aren't doing your part you shouldn't have the right to complain about them not doing theirs.


So what you are saying is that we should suck it up and deal with making less money and then pay higher prices at the smaller independent stores? I doubt that will be the reality--who is being taken oadvantage of in this situation? The fact that independent businesses are finding it hard to compete with the economies of scale of larger chain stores should not be bourne on the backs of the individual worker. But this law doesn't just benefit small companies--large organizations will receive the most benefit. Take a look at the government incentives that these firms receive and that makes taking overtime away from employees even more appalling.



posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by lmgnyc
There are many hourly employees forced to work overtime--this law especially applies to nurses. In NYC, for example, there is a severe shortage of registered nurses and overtime is a fact of life. Now nurses will still have to work significant overtime and most will not be paid for it. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be treated by an overworked and disgruntled nurse.

I do see your point that there may be some individuals that DO need to get the overtime, since it initially was there to protect people from being forced into it.



Unfortunately, history has revealed that many (not all) business owners do not posess the ethics to properly treat their employees. In the case of small business, there is not enough oversight and these businesses fall under the radar. Labor laws were designed to protect these people. The cost of doing business in the US is rising, but relief should not come at the expense of the individual worker.

So what you are saying is that we should suck it up and deal with making less money and then pay higher prices at the smaller independent stores? I doubt that will be the reality--who is being taken oadvantage of in this situation? The fact that independent businesses are finding it hard to compete with the economies of scale of larger chain stores should not be bourne on the backs of the individual worker. But this law doesn't just benefit small companies--large organizations will receive the most benefit. Take a look at the government incentives that these firms receive and that makes taking overtime away from employees even more appalling.


At least a part of what I am trying to say is that an employer taking advantage is no excuse for an employee to do it back.
Something has to give- nobody at either end can keep asking for everything, and in order for anything to work out there has to be a balance.

If you aren't going to buy American products, don't be mad our jobs are being sent elsewhere. In this case if you aren't supporting the solution- you are paying them to do the very thing that is hurting you!

While the burden shouldn't be bourne completely on the individual worker, it also shouldn't completely be bourne by the business owner- or soon enough there won't be any business owners left and there won't be anyone to work for. As our country is starting to sway- so many burdens are put on the small business owner that it is unrealistic to have employees- you have to pay workman's comp, wages, and taxes- and then if they do a bad job and you fire them, you have to pay them not to work for you anymore!?! So how is someone supposed to afford this, then offer insurance and pay well?

It is hard to get around letting large corporations benefit as well, but if they are such a problem- maybe we should give a break to the small guys and give them a fighting chance to become larger so we won't be so dominated by a select few as we are now.

A subject like overtime can be as touchy as unions, and it's important that it is. Both were set up to protect the individual worker and create simpler relations and laid out rules for management- but have turned into their own destructive force- neither is used for benefit anymore but both have been manipulated to crush the employer. Biting the hand that feeds you- and people wonder why there are scab workers, a cut in overtime and outsourcing.

If you think everything should be handed to you, eventually the handouts will run out. You can't expect higher wages, lower taxes, more benefits and fewer hours all at the same time then think it won't hurt somebody.
People keep forgetting there is someone at the other end, it isn't free SOMEONE has to pay for it.
So when you ask if the individual worker should bear it- who do you really propose instead? Do you think the one guy at the top should spend all of his money on you? Why you? Did you do the work to get where he is?

Of course there are exceptions, but wealth is something worked for, you have to earn it, just like everyone else. If you want your situation to change, do something to change it, don't just expect a new law that someone has to give you more for the same work. That's insane. You are repeating the same action (work) and expecting a different result (more money). The definition of insane.



posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 12:43 PM
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They are trying to drive down wages.

What will happen is most organizations will hire more from temp agencies, more immagrants, etc. at lower wages and guess what...the wages we have been used to getting paid are no longer going to exist. Cost of living is increasing, wages are decreasing. This has been happening in Washington State. It is horrible. I have been doing the same thing for over 15 years, plus have gone back to school earned another degree, have obtained all this wonderful diverse experience and there is no way I can get a different job, doing the same thing and get paid what I am now. The sad thing is, I have not received a raise in three years and I am sadly underpaid - have been for three years. If you know somebody who works for a non-profit or a company that runs on a budget, you may be able to get paid what your worth - if you know somebody. Cost of living keeps going up, I still put in overtime to get some of my work done because our company can't afford to hire anymore staff and I don't get paid for any over time either. I think by them passing this new overtime thing they are thinking that they are going to try and help the economy in the long term, but their theories are only going to make everything worse. This just goes to prove that everyone that is sadly illusioned that "our economy is getting better" are just kidding themselves and they listen waaaaaaay too much to the media and other worldly sources.



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