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Question: If Jesus was the son of God, why did he wait to do his miracles?

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posted on Sep, 6 2011 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by puzzlesphere
reply to post by akushla99
 



Originally posted by akushla99
Because the 'suzuki method' of miracles hadn't been invented yet!


Star that!
... I've been listening to miracles under my pillow when I go to sleep for years, and still haven't learned that song! I figure once I can perform 1000 miracles without any mistakes, i'll have this miracle thing down!


What often go as 'miracles' are sadly overrated, mankind LOVES street-theater, the melodramatic and sensationalism, so any statistical aberration from the known norm is a potential 'miracle', which people can go 'ooooh' and 'aaah' about and build religions on.

Whereas real 'miracles', i.e. transcending cosmic order ('natural laws'), have been so devaluated, that even normal events can be miraculous, if enough semantic ornamentation is applicated or through such questionable methods as inductive categories and 'synchronocities'.

(For those unfamiliar with these two last concepts it means that you for dear life hang on to similarities,...however small.... in thingies and events and find an imagined pattern in it.)

True reality-seeking takes a second place to this, nothing can beat the motives of entertainment or "I want meaning in life, even if I have to invent one".

In the midst of all the cartesian confusion of "I drink, therefore I am", with solipsism spooking at the horizon.... forcing the dedicated theist to either fanatism or adaption to a multiple personality....... we can still rely somewhat on the existence of consciousness per se.

*******

After thus having created a background canvass, I now address your thoughts directly, in-the-sphere-of-puzzles, as I find quite much sense in your comments.

Maybe you can accept this allegory: Consciousness.....'the mind'?.... is like a radio (a primitive device from my youth, a kind of TV without the visual option), which you can tune to the various available wavelengths of cosmic energies. There's a 'holy spirit' wavelength (which from some christians with monopoly-ambitions wrongly is claimed to be a christian copyright); there's a 'third eye' wavelength; a chi/reiki-energy wl; a 'mother, Gaia, Kuan-Yin, compassion' wl; an inspiragon wl (inspiragons are sofar unknown elementary particles... like photons and gluons.... acting on emotions and the intellect simultaneously); etc....

in short what's generally offered through diverse 'initiation' procedures, which basically are pointing to the tuning button and a giving a specific wavelength.

Whatever 'reality' is, these direct-experiences are important parts of it, but out-of-hand calling them miracles and concentrating on one wavelength as THE wavelength is putting on blinkers.

Now I have the distinct impression, that you know, what you're talking about, and that really you have a home-made tuner under your pillow (however little or much physical it is), a result of trial-and-error, experiences beyond the fields we see and solid craftsmans-ship.

I can guess at this, as I have one myself. Part physical thingumajic, part a map and part 'being there'. But as with you, no REAL miracles sofar. (The day I successfully can walk on water every time I try, I'll send you a U2U with details).

PS I somewhat resent your heresy in a later post, concerning your dissenting secterism on the subject of spaghetti and linguini. I hope, we can settle it without crusades, blood and inqusitions. You just have to agree, that you are wrong, and all will be honky-dory.


Entertainment, being entertainment...still contains the word 'enter'.

I figure, many, have being twiddling this tuner knob, haphazardly...the pillow, if for nothing else, can cushion the blow to the forehead. I wish them well

Maps are useful, if they contain cardinal points...no use 'being', a leaf in the wind!...except perhaps as distraction.
Distraction, amusement, entertainment...only really part of the frequency range, and best held as such, in that position. Preset #1. A barefoot walk in the grass.
Everyone loves a good mackerel.

Akushla




posted on Sep, 6 2011 @ 05:35 AM
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reply to post by akushla99
 


You wrote:

["Maps are useful, if they contain cardinal points..."]

Should I ever fall out of an airplane (or something similar), I hope, I will be able to keep such an extent of philosophical scepticism on the way down between the two "cardinal points" of the airplane and the ground.

The 'relative reality' of cosmos is unpleasantly convincing, and that bleeped gravity pops up constantly, in spite of the 'wiser' of us knowing, that it is only an illusion, which popped up in the context of a Big Bang (or whatever).

Quote: ["Everyone loves a good mackerel."]

Including me, but being a vegetarian this depraved sensory pleasure is off-limits for me. Though I'm otherwise quite enthusiastic about moderate hedonism.

Quote: ["...no use 'being', a leaf in the wind!..."]

Technically, the leaf and the wind 'ARE'.

And it doesn't help to say: "Only in your mind"..because who said this...and what mind?

Notice, that I DIDN'T say anything about what happens, when the tuner is turned off. The most likely situation for 'miracles', where we stop the entertaining show.

Btw I'm not a supporter of the 'school' or 'entertaining' branch of why anything exists.



posted on Sep, 6 2011 @ 06:25 AM
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bogomil - (Should I ever fall out of an airplane (or something similar), I hope, I will be able to keep such an extent of philosophical scepticism on the way down between the two "cardinal points" of the airplane and the ground.)

Akushla - When in deep water, learn how to fly...or knit. How does that go?

bogomil - (The 'relative reality' of cosmos is unpleasantly convincing, and that bleeped gravity pops up constantly, in spite of the 'wiser' of us knowing, that it is only an illusion, which popped up in the context of a Big Bang (or whatever).)

Akushla - Conditional imperatives...oh well...I guess a dream is out of the question?

bogomil - (Including me, but being a vegetarian this depraved sensory pleasure is off-limits for me.)

Akushla - ...mmm...i would go so far as to call it an addiction. That protein monkey is a hard one to shake...though, I have been free of its grip for a lifetime.

bogomil - (Technically, the leaf and the wind 'ARE'.)

Akushla - Technically, yes.

bogomil - (Notice, that I DIDN'T say anything about what happens, when the tuner is turned off. The most likely situation for 'miracles', where we stop the entertaining show.)

Akushla - Its a free show. And the freedom extends to the egress. But, i agree...and the lack of mention was conspicuous in its absence. ROLL CALL!

bogomil - (Btw I'm not a supporter of the 'school' or 'entertaining' branch of why anything exists.)

Akushla - ...as if it needed supporting, you mean?

Akushla



posted on Sep, 6 2011 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by akushla99
 


["Akushla - When in deep water, learn how to fly...or knit. How does that go?"]

Just as well, if not better than: "When falling out of an airplane to the ground, learn to swim". At least it will take your thoughts away from what's going to happen very soon.

["Akushla - Conditional imperatives...oh well...I guess a dream is out of the question?"]

I LIKE that one. Though "when I woke up, I didn't know, if I'm a man who dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming it's a man". The small uncertainties of life.

["bogomil - (Notice, that I DIDN'T say anything about what happens, when the tuner is turned off. The most likely situation for 'miracles', where we stop the entertaining show.)

Akushla - Its a free show. And the freedom extends to the egress. But, i agree...and the lack of mention was conspicuous in its absence. ROLL CALL!"]

That's easy to say, but some clever type has put some massive potted palms in front of the exit. Not to mention the sign on the exit door: 'Only for staff'.

["bogomil - (Btw I'm not a supporter of the 'school' or 'entertaining' branch of why anything exists.)

Akushla - ...as if it needed supporting, you mean?"]

As if it is nonsense, I mean.



posted on Sep, 6 2011 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


My beliefs are not even close to JW's... Interesting you say that though considering i recently spent 30+ pages debunking a JW's beliefs a few weeks ago. Clearly you don't know me very well...



"Clearly"? Clearly you didn't read my last post. I said you were NOT a JW, you just shared their beliefs. The JW are a cult of rejection, they find a way to reject virtually all tenets of historical fundamental orthodox Biblical Christianity.

A sample of what they deny:

1. The deity of Jesus
2. The Trinity
3. The blood atonement
4. The bodily resurrection of Christ.

So, I could be not brushed up on your current Theological positions, but I do recall you denying all these standards of historical orthodox Christianity. SO you may not be a JW, but you share many of their core beliefs, that's why Dr. Ron Carlson's video is relevant. He shows how all the JW positions on the above theological topics is unbiblical.

To repeat again, I never claimed you were a card-carrying member of the JWs.





edit on 6-9-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 6 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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Wow... it doesn't matter what your beliefs are... you are entitled to whatever you want to believe!

I found this link, thought it pertained to the topic:
y-jesus.com...



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 01:06 AM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


On sense,
...and non-sense...

Brilliant 'machine', the human body, albeit its manifest 'set-up' to deal mostly with this chosen locum (or the other way around, if you like).

A machine, by nature, is process driven (or maybe i made that up?). From its inception to its 'manufacture', and on to its operation. Parts fit into parts...bolt on, pivot, are lubricated, wear out if not maintained...vehicle carcass' all rust to clay. (as a side note...20 years before the founding of the B. Illuminati by A. Weishaupt, the word 'carcass' fell into disuse, when referring to the human body...interesting, or not...the zeitgeist seems to have been uncomfortable with the association...everyone can make thier own mind up).

Soon the circle will close at its 'frequency' confluence, and a new circle will 'open'. 'Waves' have a habit of being regular, and somewhat predictable (but of course, this could not strictly be called, a 'pattern', could it?)

Polish the shiny red shoes...

Akushla



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 01:19 AM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


Mmm...
Who, what, when, where...but no why?

Form over function!?

Even when 'feigning' spontenaity, the feigning, (second cousin removed) springs from a flavour of function.


Perhaps 'miracle' (like the modern, co-incidence or con-spiracy) having been hijacked to reflect a consensual 'reality, should be replaced with a more apt word?

Those who have replaced it with the silence that follows, can tell the difference between, a 'Buddha show', or a 'Jesus show'; or the entertainment which would eventually create myth mixed with reality, and of course, the mandatory mirror ball.

There are many who reside in this silence. Some, in confusion. You, of all people, are well aware of the effect, when this silence becomes a deafening roar that no-one else can hear. They babel, don't they?

I like your 'style'. The truth, indeed, comes from many sources, or directions (whichever); its location is perhaps moot, and even a wireless, with no ear to hear it, still recieves a signal. Perhaps not tuned, but there nonetheless.
...trees are falling in forests...

Akushla



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 01:24 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


My beliefs are not even close to JW's... Interesting you say that though considering i recently spent 30+ pages debunking a JW's beliefs a few weeks ago. Clearly you don't know me very well...



"Clearly"? Clearly you didn't read my last post. I said you were NOT a JW, you just shared their beliefs. The JW are a cult of rejection, they find a way to reject virtually all tenets of historical fundamental orthodox Biblical Christianity.

A sample of what they deny:

1. The deity of Jesus
2. The Trinity
3. The blood atonement
4. The bodily resurrection of Christ.

So, I could be not brushed up on your current Theological positions, but I do recall you denying all these standards of historical orthodox Christianity. SO you may not be a JW, but you share many of their core beliefs, that's why Dr. Ron Carlson's video is relevant. He shows how all the JW positions on the above theological topics is unbiblical.

To repeat again, I never claimed you were a card-carrying member of the JWs.





edit on 6-9-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



I also share some beliefs of Hinduism, buddhism, shamanism, new age movements, various mystic beliefs, Gnosticism, Christianity, some beliefs of mormonism.... and a bunch of other religions as well.

Do you really have a point or are you trying your best to label me?

Here some news for ya... JW's also share many of your beliefs as well. Probably more so then i...

Many religions reject your ideals, so really what are you trying to prove here? I personally reject your religion and JW's mostly because both of your religions seem to believe they are correct according to their bible, and in both cases i believe both missed the mark.

So again...whats your point?


edit on 7-9-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2011 @ 05:14 AM
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reply to post by akushla99
 


Both you posts answered together here.

You wrote:

["A machine, by nature, is process driven (or maybe i made that up?). From its inception to its 'manufacture', and on to its operation."]

I don't think, you made it up. That's how it is in this cosmos, with seemingly 'something' most likely coming from a seemingly 'nothing'. In other hypothetical cosmoses the seemingly 'somethings' could realistically be very different from ours and still be the fragmented manifestation of the totality of the seemingly 'nothing'.

Quote: ["Parts fit into parts"]

Even more,.... exist through and by parts being the mirrored and polarized counter-parts of each other.

Quote: ["Soon the circle will close at its 'frequency' confluence, and a new circle will 'open'."]

I still have some small hopes, that I after all can become a sage before I die physically from

a/ being worn out, or

b/ some zealots blow up this planet from excessive holiness.

Quote: ["'Waves' have a habit of being regular, and somewhat predictable.."]

If this cosmos has any 'intent' in its construction, it's easier to administrate it, if it has fixed rules. So only 'miracles' on divine dispensation. Miracles also being a fringe-benefit in propaganda-wars: "WE can walk on water", YOU can't".

Quote: [" Mmm... Who, what, when, where...but no why?"]

I like 'why's, but for some people 'why's lead to existential angst, so the answer-gaps are filled with all kinds of speculative nonsense, cosmetically covering the white spots on the map.

Quote: ["Form over function!?"]

Is blue better than fridays?

Quote: [" Even when 'feigning' spontenaity, the feigning, (second cousin removed) springs from a flavour of function."]

When or if I become a sage, I may be able to have some wellfounded opinion on that. For the time being I can only say, that the 'opposite-answer' perspectives mostly are based on hierarchial bureaucracies with authority per se as the main motive.

Quote: [" Perhaps 'miracle' (like the modern, co-incidence or con-spiracy) having been hijacked to reflect a consensual 'reality, should be replaced with a more apt word?"]

Until 'anomaly' is hijacked also, I'll stick with that. Ofcourse being convoluted as usual insisting that there are 'anomalies' originating from both the 'inside' and 'outside' of cosmos (if there is an 'outside', which I believe).

Many missionaries with the basic attitude that rational thinking comes from a mythological 'adversary' have problems with such distinctions, and postulate that funny-looking clouds somehow 'prove' the existence of their specific deity.

Quote: ["Those who have replaced it with the silence that follows, can tell the difference between, a 'Buddha show', or a 'Jesus show'; or the entertainment which would eventually create myth mixed with reality, and of course, the mandatory mirror ball."]

This is 'tactically' a dangerous idea, because faster than you can say: "What, what, what" (Kyle's mother, South Park), there will be somebody making 'holy spirit'-show claims.

"My sandbox is bigger than you sandbox"-thingy.

Quote: ["There are many who reside in this silence."]

I almost never speak with myself inside my head these days. And when it happens (old habits die hard), I am able to ignore it for the white noise it is.

Quote: ["You, of all people, are well aware of the effect, when this silence becomes a deafening roar that no-one else can hear."]

It became less troublesome after the first thirty years; I mean the 'roar' impression. Now it's more like a pan-flute on a mountain-top.

Quote: ["I like your 'style'. The truth, indeed, comes from many sources, or directions (whichever); its location is perhaps moot, and even a wireless, with no ear to hear it, still recieves a signal. Perhaps not tuned, but there nonetheless. ...trees are falling in forests..."]

And the species-centry of new-age mankind believes there will only be a sound, if there's a new-ager around to hear it. Badgers will do fine, though, in such an observer-created existence.

I somehow like badgers, because they like me have a basic attitude of chronic grumpiness. They don't seem to care much about miracles either.



edit on 7-9-2011 by bogomil because: typo



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 01:34 AM
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["In other hypothetical cosmoses the seemingly 'somethings' could realistically be very different from ours and still be the fragmented manifestation of the totality of the seemingly 'nothing'."]

...and, hypothetically, both are...something & nothing.

[Even more,.... exist through and by parts being the mirrored and polarized counter-parts of each other.]

A brilliant machine...An even more brilliant driver.

[If this cosmos has any 'intent' in its construction, it's easier to administrate it, if it has fixed rules.]

...which it kinda, sorta seems to have...intent (i agree) could be a figment, but only...just...for...a...moment...

[I like 'why's, but for some people 'why's lead to existential angst, so the answer-gaps are filled with all kinds of speculative nonsense, cosmetically covering the white spots on the map.]

Well put...methinks. Angst is in the overrated basket for me.

[When or if I become a sage, I may be able to have some wellfounded opinion on that. For the time being I can only say, that the 'opposite-answer' perspectives mostly are based on hierarchial bureaucracies with authority per se as the main motive.]

That's funny! I laughed again at 'sage'. French children, when being told to 'behave', are told to be sage...that's a little opposite!

What are wordsworth?...if each pointilist dot of a word, is applied, to a canvas, by a robot, who has no intent, no care for its placement (other than as a coordinate location); to be heard (viewed), by a robot, who has no appreciation, no care for its beauty, rythmn, colour, shape...the positive space, the negative space, the madrugada between them?

Akushla



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 01:37 AM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


Of what use is the title 'sage'...
...if sagacity is not acted upon?

Is it really a title one can confer on oneself?
And/or, having been thusly entitled, is it to be taken so seriously that the reason for its original branding, is lost in the pursuit of upholding the title belt? (even, as you say...before you die...)

Sage...schmage...
You are known for what you do.
Ironical...in this context.

I never ass-u-me anything...of others, or myself.
I can test what I know, experience, create...
For others...I am not thier...tester.

It is my 'opinion', that, this 'existence' thing is a collaborative effort (perhaps the wrong word), mental cross-reference...
"this is what I see"
"is that what you are seeing?"

Again, with the collaborative reality, but then, those blindfolded scientists, feeling up parts of the elephant, were all, both correct, and incorrect, about what they were presented with! An 'outsider' could see this.
Feel up enough parts of the elephant, and you are still both correct and incorrect. Is this where we are all going to call it quits? Or do we jump off the pier into the frozen water and tie some things together, because we know they are all parts of the same elephant?

Akushla



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 05:44 AM
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reply to post by akushla99
 


You wrote:

["Again, with the collaborative reality, but then, those blindfolded scientists, feeling up parts of the elephant, were all, both correct, and incorrect, about what they were presented with! An 'outsider' could see this."]

As with everything else, the final choices are personal and pragmatic. I like science, because it has introduced round wheels instead of square ones (they were bumpy), and in my 20+ years active farming-period I had all the blessings of modern technology (science-originated) instead of an oxen, a woodenplough and a spade for 17 acres.

Though I'm not a techno-freak concerning my person and my habits.

Quote: ["Feel up enough parts of the elephant, and you are still both correct and incorrect. Is this where we are all going to call it quits?"]


You answered this yourself: ["It is my 'opinion', that, this 'existence' thing is a collaborative effort (perhaps the wrong word), mental cross-reference...
"this is what I see"
"is that what you are seeing?"]

"And this is what I see you seeing concerning my seeing"....It's allegorically a big mirror-cabinet, but both the mirrors and the concept 'reflecting' are somehow 'real' and the fantizillions of images have patterns. Sometimes elephant patterns.

And it's only dangerous to find words for it, if one intends to rape language to 'prove' some obsessional point, which a minority admittedly does constantly (the herd just says regularly: "My, this is good grazing" or "Bleep, what happened to the good grazing").

Personally I find it useful and gratifying to be able to go to a shop and say: "Can I have the 15 year matured single-malt Glenn Finnigan" and not get 'Jim Bearhugger's 8-minutes matured'.

If Jesus lived, and if he did anything extraordinary, he must've thought of such things first. The other way, the fake-zen and -tao'ism, was tried in the sixties, and only lead to a useless abundance of fake-zenners and -tao'ists, whom nobody knew what to do with.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



So again...whats your point?


Well back it up a bit. We were discussing the nature of Christ. You share the same position on the nature of Christ that the JWs share. So I suggested you listen to the world's leading expert of cults and false doctrine who shows that the JWs are wrong about the nature of Christ. He even uses their own NWT of the Bible to demonstrate this. Quite a good watch.



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 



So again...whats your point?


Well back it up a bit. We were discussing the nature of Christ. You share the same position on the nature of Christ that the JWs share. So I suggested you listen to the world's leading expert of cults and false doctrine who shows that the JWs are wrong about the nature of Christ. He even uses their own NWT of the Bible to demonstrate this. Quite a good watch.


Actually no i don't... i consider Jesus to be the son of God, but i also consider myself, you and everyone else to be the same. As far as i remember JW's consider Jesus to be Michael the archangel, which i do not.

To me Jesus was a man that remembered exactly where he came from, thus logically being the reason he knew the truth and preached it, and led by example. These are not JW's beliefs so again as i've said "Clearly" you don't know me very well.

I know the flaws in that religion, and i appreciate that you presented a video that may validate that fact, but its not needed. I find the errors are quite obvious honestly and i don't need someone to point out said obvious mistakes in understanding the bible.

But again i appreciate it my friend



*Note* i will direct you to this thread that slowly went down hill as the OP's points were slowly destroyed by a few other members. And when he had no where to go he disapeared like a fart in the wind


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Good fun though
edit on 8-9-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil


If Jesus lived, and if he did anything extraordinary, he must've thought of such things first. The other way, the fake-zen and -tao'ism, was tried in the sixties, and only lead to a useless abundance of fake-zenners and -tao'ists, whom nobody knew what to do with.


Then it is 'up' to the 'US-es'...to fut the up shuck...You, to farm, Me, to put out fires...
...stop the language raping (a term I've always found a tad too...fetishist...In relation to language).

I guess there might be an absence of bogomils and Akushlas, if they all got off thier respective horses (atop which, the air is so rarified)...and public graffiti walls like this would be filled with one less 'colour'...a bold colour...to consider, or have the kahunas to use...for whatever consequence, barrow, entertainment, or, boredom(?)...

Oscar Wilde...The Importance of Being Earnest...
I sometimes wonder whether he should have written a book called...
'The Earnestness of Being Important'.

Akushla



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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*Note* i will direct you to this thread that slowly went down hill as the OP's points were slowly destroyed by a few other members. And when he had no where to go he disapeared like a fart in the wind


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Good fun though
edit on 8-9-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


Nah, I didn't disappear, just sitting back going WOW.... I mean I wanted answers on how people feel about it, but things got blown up with people fighting over moot points.

Entertaining, but way off topic



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by freespirit1
 


I, for one, am apologising, freespirit1.

Akushla



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Again sir, we were talking about the Trinity/deity of Christ. In regards to what we were discussing, you share the same beliefs as the JWs:

1. Jesus is not God.
2. Trinity doctrine is false.

That's it.

I was comparing your position to theirs in regards to these two points. And ONLY these two points.

Clear now finally??

It's been some time now, can I actually get you to watch the videos then comment back on them? Is this too much to ask?



posted on Sep, 8 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by akushla99
 


Thanks, but none needed really. Like I said, I am entertained by people's actions and words on here, that's why I became a member


Soooooo... I have seen everything from Jesus never existed to he is God as responses. I appreciate everyone's input and have actually learned a lot!



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