Turkey navy to escort aid ships to Palestinians in Gaza

Originally posted by TheMaverick
reply to post by nusnus

 

I think your find Turkey is just as advanced in weapons as Israel ,Turkey military budget this year is 5 Billion dollars ,don't underestimate Turkey and there ability to wage war ,and Turkey does has nuclear weapons ,as they hold 40-90 "Made in America" NATO tactical nuclear weapons ,which was place there by NATO ,so in effect Turkey does has nuclear weapons at there disposal.

I was tryin to explain the same thing ...I'm American and even I understand Turkey is a world power weather people wanna acknowledge it or not... Israel I think is gonna realize they pissed off some people in their area they need to be cool with and quietly back down.

Originally posted by NewsWorthy
Turkey has been housing American and Nato Nuclear weapons since the Cold War..They may not have ICBM's anymore at thier disposal but they have short range capability which is all they need to erase Israel

Not specifically. You said it yourself, Turkey is simply holding these weapons for them. This means they cannot use them without prior permission from NATO and US. Also, I don't think Turks have the ability to fly these bombs.
To suggest that they can actually take them out and bomb Israel means they hold the risk of angering NATO and US ties. Well, bombing Israel with any weaponry would be enough to piss US off and I doubt the Turks will go that far.

If a piss poor country like North Korea can build secret underground bases an fabricate nuclear weapons themselves with no prototype wouldn't you think Turkey could do the same even quicker/easier since they already have the weapons to copy??

edit on 3-9-2011 by NewsWorthy because: Korean example

True but NK is well known for kidnapping nuclear and other scientists to help develop its weapons. The only major weapon developer in Turkey is a small organization called TUBITAK. And I've met a couple of their 'brains' and there is nothing there to worry about. Israeli's know this very well.

Originally posted by nusnus
The only major weapon developer in Turkey is a small organization called TUBITAK. And I've met a couple of their 'brains' and there is nothing there to worry about. Israeli's know this very well.

I guess Turkey has the whole world fooled then:

www.globalfirepower.com...

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by backinblack
Lets see how Israel go facing a real military

Israel has shown that they have constantly faced real threats and beaten them, Turkey will fail trying to break a legal blockade.

For the blockade to be legal they need a declaration of war. Something they don't have because Israel declared the war was over. And we know the real threats that they have faced this pic shows what kind of enemy they face.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cd63ff4d53f8.jpg[/atsimg]

They are in a declared state of armed conflict with hamas. They can't declare war because palestine is not a nation state. The blockade is completely legal. We are looking at the possible start of the gog-magog war.

Turks have no real reason to hate the Hebrews .

Hebrews have no real reason to hate the Turks .

Hopefully common sense will prevail and a political solution will be found in the oncoming days .

For the record , If Turkish or other civilian ships are attacked in the eastern med , then Turks have the right to guarantee safety in these waters .

The right to roam these seas freely for civilian vessels had been enforced by the Turks for centuries .

Turks have the largest coastal area in the eastern med and thus have a lawfull and legal vested commercial interest in making sure the civilian boats can come and go as they like .

A German registered ship , full of German and other nationalities are being prepared at this very moment to sail to Gazza .

This time , a Turkish warships and Turkish Airforce will be listening for a ' Distress Call ' .

If an Israeli militaryship appraoch/board the German ship and ship's captain asks for help ; what should the Turkish Government do ?


My personal opinion is that the Israeli government won't last till next year and the new government will lift the blockade .

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by nusnus
The only major weapon developer in Turkey is a small organization called TUBITAK. And I've met a couple of their 'brains' and there is nothing there to worry about. Israeli's know this very well.

I guess Turkey has the whole world fooled then:

www.globalfirepower.com...

I'm not arguing about the strength of the Turkish forces. I'm arguing about their ability to 'research and develop their own weaponry', which they lack, because almost all of the weapons they use are bought off other countries.

And I was trying to make a point that saying Turkey has nukes is mote, because it doesn't own these weapons and has no means to develop them.

Originally posted by nusnus
I'm not arguing about the strength of the Turkish forces. I'm arguing about their ability to 'research and develop their own weaponry', which they lack, because almost all of the weapons they use are bought off other countries.

And I was trying to make a point that saying Turkey has nukes is mote, because it doesn't own these weapons and has no means to develop them.

And where does most of Israel's arms come from? THEIR nukes? You're right. Moot point, on both sides.

Turkey has the 2nd largest army in NATO.

recent events:

The resignations of Turkey's top military brass, along with the detention of scores of officers, have sparked fears that the capability of NATO’s second-largest army is being eroded.

The resignation of Turkey’s top four military officers last week has been heralded as marking the end of a near decade-long power struggle between the government and armed forces.

But the resignations, along with the ongoing detention of scores of officers in what government opponents claim are politically motivated criminal probes, have sparked fears that NATO’s second-largest army could face an operational crisis. ....

Turkey is involved in NATO missions in Afghanistan and Libya. But one Turkish fleet currently operating off the coast of Libya, is lacking its commander; Vice Admiral Kadir Sagdic, head of Southern Sea Area Command, was detained last summer on suspicion of plotting a coup.
How Turkey's military upheaval will affect NATO

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Kemal

 

Heres a solution. Change the name of Turkey to the Kurdish-Turkish empire, or Kurdaturk, or turkakurd? Cool? And let Kurds fill government positions at a rate comparable to their representation.


There are 20 million Kurds in Turkey. More than enough to secede and establish their own country. Which of course is what they want.

But no! to the demagogues such a yourself, who claims 'the kurds are our friends' even though you clearly understand they do not want to be friends, but rather want the same right to self determination as turks have...But of course, that cant be given to them, right? You Turks are too "strong and proud" for that.

The Kurds do need a country of their own . I have to agree with you on that .

However , I don't understand why any Turk would have to give up a piece of land that their forefathers fought and died for .

If every country operated like you suggest i.e give up soverignty for all the minorities , what would happen to lot of countries ?

Kurds live in more then one country i.e Iran , Iraq , Syria and Turkey .

If any one of these countries stop being ' strong & proud ' and give up land to Kurds , can the world expect the rest of the nations to follow suit , in relation to their own minorities ?

In fact what you present as a reasonable solution to Kurdish problem i.e give up land Turks and everything will be OK , is actually very dangerous and will cost far more lives then you may anticipate .


My solution would be to have those 4 countries ( Iran & Iraq & Syria & Turkey )agree to a common Kurdish homeland .

That is the only permanent solution to a largely ignored Kurdish problem .

reply to post by dontreally

Friggin antisemitic garbage.

Ha Ha the antisemitic card .. Good one !

reply to post by 23432

However , I don't understand why any Turk would have to give up a piece of land that their forefathers fought and died for .

Umm. Kurdistand, a region currently in South Eastern Turkey, Western Iran, Northern Iraq and North eastern Syria, has ALWAYS been historically the land of the Kurds - in ancient times known as Hurrians.

The exact opposite has happened. The Turks/Iranians/Iraqis and Syrians have taken land that belongs to the Kurds.

To look deeper. Syrian and Iraqi are completely made up divisions that have clearly not worked.. This is why these two countries - one created by britain, the other by france, are such collosal demographic nightmares saubmerged in internecine conflicts.. There is nothing to unite these peoples, because they are all different.

To give Kudistan to the Kurds would be akin to giving Israel to the Jews; its their land; both historically, and culturually (that is, the land bears archeological testament to their relationship to it)

reply to post by TheMaverick


Whats good one about it?

He basically said Israel controls the media. That isnt true, unless of course he subscribes to theories championed by antisemites - that Jews control the media, banking etc. to expand this conspiracy against the world; Israel - the Jewish zionist conspiracy, controls the world.

Its antisemitic garbage.

It makes me want to do this :

How did we get into the Kurd thing? I thought the topic was, "Turkey navy to escort aid ships to Palestinians in Gaza".

reply to post by intrepid


The argument naturally steers there...

Turkey - an all-of-a-sudden champion of human rights for palestinians, is doing precisely that which they are castigating Israel for, against the Kurds of Turkey and northern Iraq, despite kemals attempts of "the kurds are our friends" argument.

Its just very ironic, and very hard not to point out.

reply to post by intrepid


"dontreally" thought there was an irony in Turkey defending the Palestinians (because of their opression by Israel) while Turkey allegedly opresses the Kurds. The challange started, he lost and now comes with "zionist garbage" (note: according to him, Israel belongs to the Jews, who have left the land thousands of years ago, but k.)

Now stop throwing the word anti-semite here. Go figure what SEMITE means first of all.

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by backinblack
Lets see how Israel go facing a real military

Israel has shown that they have constantly faced real threats and beaten them, Turkey will fail trying to break a legal blockade.

I agree that Israel won't watch their blockade broken unless they choose to allow that to happen, but this could sure get ugly. Turkey couldn't possibly be choosing this moment by accident. The pile on of events just keeps on going.

OK but can we get back to the topic now?

If you click on the countries in the link I provided you'll see the strengths of each military:

www.globalfirepower.com...

www.globalfirepower.com...

Turkey's navy is vastly superior. Air force pretty equal. This isn't 1967 and I wouldn't doubt that Turkey is keeping on alert. I would be considering Israel's military tactics.

Bill Ayers has been a busy little Bee. So this is why he delayed the fake relief effort he orchestrated from behind the scenes. I have no doubt he is in constant contact with Obama on this through an operative.

Oddly enough an actual real conspiracy going on here and little to no discussion on ATS. Interesting.

Would an attack on Israel result in another term for Obama? Keep your eyes and ears open.

On Turkey and the nukes, they cant arm them, they don't belong too them. I guess they could hold them hostage or extract the material if they wanted to go to war with NATO for real and I doubt that.

Link to good article on that.

...over the last few decades, the United States has removed all of its intermediate-range missiles from Turkey and reduced its other nuclear weapons there through gradual redeployments and arms control agreements.

Today, Turkey hosts an estimated 90 B61 gravity bombs at Incirlik Air Base. Fifty of these bombs are reportedly PDF assigned for delivery by U.S. pilots, and forty are assigned for delivery by the Turkish Air Force. However, no permanent nuclear-capable U.S. fighter wing is based at Incirlik, and the Turkish Air Force is reportedly PDF not certified for NATO nuclear missions, meaning nuclear-capable F-16s from other U.S. bases would need to be brought in if Turkey's bombs were ever needed.

Such a relaxed posture makes clear just how little NATO relies on tactical nuclear weapons for its defense anymore. In fact, the readiness of NATO's nuclear forces now is measured in months as opposed to hours or days

Well this is just great. This will get ugly very fast, Israel shows no mercy.

After this goes down, the region will be successfully destabilized. Then the fun will begin.