Cancer may have a cure, Big Pharma says "no profit.. no way"

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by DrChuck

 

If these companies were forcibly and intentionally suppressing the discovery or knowledge of cures, then it becomes a problem. But that's not the case here, they are deciding not to pursue it.

How do you know this isn't the case here?

It seems to me this is exactly the case...

Well we wouldn't know about this compound if Big Pharma was trying to suppress it would we?

Check the stats on the amount of research that goes into some of the drugs the FDA releases for various acute illnesses. They don't do as much testing as you'd think when they can charge out the ass for these pills. You'll telling me that they've extensively tested pills that are made for various issues when many times the side effects are worse then the condition that the pill is made for?

All drugs are categorized with a empirical ratio Lethal Dose/Effective Dose. There are few drugs with a lower lethal dose than effective dose, which makes them extremely dangerous. The reason why these drugs are allowed on the market is that the disease will kill immediately without exemption if nothing is done, so why not try to curb it with a strong drug. The side effects may worsen other aspects of the patients condition and they certainly will, but as long as the patient is alive and the immediate threat is curbed those side effects can also be countered.

This isn't forcing anyone to lose anything... these are huge companies that make not millions but BILLIONS of dollars each year from peoples illnesses. IF it saves peoples lives... they should suck it up and take the frickin loss.

Its not the same. If we were forcing a person to give his money to research that is one thing. If we're forcing a company that makes billions upon billions of dollars EVERY YEAR.... screw them they can take the loss. And should for the sake of humanity.

Yes and without these companies imagine the untold deaths that would occur. No they should not just suck it up and take a loss, then that should apply to EVERYBODY. You can't single out a group just because they have more money. They are not running a CHARITY, it is a business.

Why demonize just the companies for not pursuing a unprofitable product? Why not demonize all the necessary components of a research such as physicians, researchers, accountants, medical equipment manufacturers, lawyers, FDA, nurses, technicians, computer companies, property owners, laboratories, etc? All of this and more will be required to do proper testing.

reply to post by DrChuck

Well we wouldn't know about this compound if Big Pharma was trying to suppress it would we?

They arn't suppressing the chemical, they refuse to use it for cancer treatment because of the lack of profit.

The reason why these drugs are allowed on the market is that the disease will kill immediately without exemption if nothing is done, so why not try to curb it with a strong drug.

There is no disease that "kills imediately"... if there was it would negate the need for drugs wouldn't it...

The side effects may worsen other aspects of the patients condition and they certainly will, but as long as the patient is alive and the immediate threat is curbed those side effects can also be countered

Right, countered with more drugs....notice a cycle here?

Yes and without these companies imagine the untold deaths that would occur.

Pointless statement... They do exist so that arguement is invalid. The fact is these companies do not "test" many drugs extensively and because of the lack of testing there are many lawsuits filed by people that have taken various drugs that have "fast tracked" the testing stage. Look up "Avandia"... or even Accutane which was promoted as an acne medication for years without knowing the full side effects because of lack of testing. Accutane causes crones disease and several other serious complications.

The drug companies have lawyers who weigh the losses vs the gains of the product... if the possible profits outweigh the possible lawsuits and losses the drug is marketed regardless of the side effects or testing.

No they should not just suck it up and take a loss, then that should apply to EVERYBODY.

That is just rediculious... Corperations are slowly ruining the world, and drug companies are at the top of the pyramid. Big Pharma makes enough money to take a loss now and again for the "improvement" of our species.

You can't single out a group just because they have more money. They are not running a CHARITY, it is a business.

Oh but yes i can...

The money these corperations make from psudo-remedies is disgusting. Do you have any idea how much some drugs cost? Seriously...

Its not about charity, its about making billions each year from peoples illnesses. Giving people pills that have side effects that need more pills to counter the side effects...

Why demonize just the companies for not pursuing a unprofitable product?

That is a dumb question honestly... Why not demonize companies that are in the medicine business who choose not to help others because its "not profitable"

Im glad you're not a real doctor...

Why not demonize all the necessary components of a research such as physicians, researchers, accountants, medical equipment manufacturers, lawyers, FDA, nurses, technicians, computer companies, property owners, laboratories, etc? All of this and more will be required to do proper testing

Simply because they do not make the final decision on if the product is marketed or not. And the FDA likely accepts certian drugs to be marketed mearly because its good for investors and their profits.

They put cancer causing chemicals in most the meat and most the processed food this is the reason we have such a spike in cancer. Its population control.

I bet some of those people that commented are working for the industry. Dont waist your time on them. Their is allot of money in it was well.

reply to post by FoJAk
Hey mate! Read the wikipedia about the drug! It says there is a private clinic in Toronto, that is using this drug for a cancer treatment..
I wish you and your father well!

reply to post by Akragon


If you haven't noticed that the world is selfish and greedy, where have you been?

They arn't suppressing the chemical, they refuse to use it for cancer treatment because of the lack of profit.

First off, that is not what you said in a earlier post, you clearly accused them of suppressing.

Secondly, so? There is nothing wrong with declining to pursue research on a drug. They are under no obligation, just as you, to save the world. Their business is making pills to alleviate symptoms and cure diseases, and if there is a product that will be unprofitable they are not doing anything evil by not pursuing it.

There is no disease that "kills imediately"... if there was it would negate the need for drugs wouldn't it...

OK, bad choice of words. However there are diseases that do kill immediately. But you didn't go to med school did you?

Certain diseases, if not treated as soon as possible will kill very fast. Is that better?

For example, Linezolid - can cause pancreatitis, liver damage, fungal infections, neuropathy, and many other adverse side effects. But with a septic MRSA infection, a patient would be dead less than a week. Linezolid may make life a bit harder while their on it, but a bad MRSA infection will literally ruin your day permanently.

Right, countered with more drugs....notice a cycle here?

Better than dying, don't you think?

Pointless statement... They do exist so that arguement is invalid. The fact is these companies do not "test" many drugs extensively and because of the lack of testing there are many lawsuits filed by people that have taken various drugs that have "fast tracked" the testing stage. Look up "Avandia"... or even Accutane which was promoted as an acne medication for years without knowing the full side effects because of lack of testing. Accutane causes crones disease and several other serious complications.

Yes, its true that many drugs do have side effects much more dangerous than the condition it supposedly treats. And they are taken off the market as fast as possible. This is one area of Big Pharma that I truly hate. FDA will force Big Pharma to take their stuff off the shelves, but they will come back with lawyers and extend and appeal that period just so they can make money while harming others.

But seriously, do you know what the casualties would be if we didn't have streptococcal or malarial antibiotics, polio and smallpox vaccines, or HIV antivirals?

That is just rediculious... Corperations are slowly ruining the world, and drug companies are at the top of the pyramid. Big Pharma makes enough money to take a loss now and again for the "improvement" of our species.

I understand they make enough money to take a loss now and then, but it is not their obligation nor duty. And to force that upon them is wrong. They should be doing it out of their own kindness or sense of compassion. It is their money, they can choose to do with it as they please.

The money these corperations make from psudo-remedies is disgusting. Do you have any idea how much some drugs cost? Seriously...

Its not about charity, its about making billions each year from peoples illnesses. Giving people pills that have side effects that need more pills to counter the side effects...

Like it or not, these "psuedo-remedies" save lives. But what you say is true, there are no real cures for most of our diseases except for microbial infections. Do you know how much some of these drugs cost to make? The man-hours and specialized skills it takes?

So what if they make billions from peoples illnesses? It is their product that they made from their research and money, and sadly it does not belong to the world it belongs to them. And as such, they can do whatever want with it.

Why demonize just the companies for not pursuing a unprofitable product?
That is a dumb question honestly... Why not demonize companies that are in the medicine business who choose not to help others because its "not profitable"

Im glad you're not a real doctor...

Not yet...still a med student. Don't get me wrong, I do get frustrated and angry with the pharmaceutical issues concerning price and apathy from Big Pharma, but nobody is entitled to tell them what to do with their products or how to run their company.

My emotions do not veil my logic as yours do. And my views on property rights and free will have no bearing on my ability to practice medicine. I believe every man has a right to choose whether or not to help their fellow man, I choose to help. But if you choose not too, I respect your decision as it is YOUR freedom to do so.

Simply because they do not make the final decision on if the product is marketed or not. And the FDA likely accepts certian drugs to be marketed mearly because its good for investors and their profits.

Well according to you, shouldn't all these professions be giving up their money and time just like Big Pharma? Every one of the professions I listed play a integral part in researching paid by Big Pharma. Without them, Big Pharma cannot produce drugs.


No smiley face this time ?

If only it was that easy...

Do you not think the millions of cancer patients would have rioted over this, and the millions of families as well?


Well anything for a conspiracy right?

reply to post by Akragon


Cancer has had a BETTER treatment than that of radiation since the 70's. A treatment called antineoplastons. No side effects noticable in over 40 years. The FDA has tried to get the patent rights through underhanded movies but failed. I believe it is in its second stage of FDA trials. The thing is they are posioning people with radiation to compare it too. I think that is cruel and unusual punishment if you ask me. Just give them all anitneoplastons. I mean come on. If it is five times more effective at treating cancer and saves 5 to 20x more people than raiation theropy does ABOLISH RADIATION. Get your greedy hands out of our pockets. Think of the billions that would be saved in medicare/medicade and other medical insurance. GET A LIFE AND STOP STEALING OUR MONEY.

www.vanityfair.com...

As a slave to Big Pharma I believe that no cure will likely ever become a product of any current Pharmaceutical Corporation - not for cancer or any other disease. Donating to find a cure is a waste of resources. The business is profiting from disease, not curing it.

Pharma trials their own cocktails out of the public eye and submits the results to the FDA. The exact same game of musical chairs that exists within the ranks of Goldman-Sachs and our government exists within the ranks of Big Pharma and the FDA. Why do you think so many drugs end up being found to be harmful after years of use? The cost-benefit analysis showed that they would make enough money during the period prior to the discovery of the harmful effects of the drug to easily pay the class-action lawsuits that could follow.

Big Pharma and the FDA are one and the same. The fox is guarding the henhouse as usual.

scienceblogs.com... - The other side of this story. Many more links like this out there.

However, Antineoplastons do seem to be the real deal.

The world isnt about profit. profit doesnt make it spin. profit doesnt get things done.

People get things done. and if you let them all die by cancer, how will you, and who will you make the meds for?

i'm telling you, this world is 1 wrong comment away from dropping the gloves and turning the streets upside down.

people, ceos of big business, need to grow up and stop being children. they will get buried.. in some pretty sick stuff.

Of course there's no money in the cure!

Like Chris Rock Says...

www.youtube.com...

Got one question. Dont know if anyone said it before but why all the patients and their families from ALL the world create one pharma company and fund this particular medicine. even one euro from each family will be enough. just sayin... we need to take matters in our hands.
You cant blame anyone when you let others step on you and not take actions.

reply to post by Alda1981


cause thats centralizing power, and when power is in one place, its easier to control. oh.. and its also socialism. which everyone believes is the devils little sister.

Originally posted by Myendica
reply to post by Alda1981

 

cause thats centralizing power, and when power is in one place, its easier to control. oh.. and its also socialism. which everyone believes is the devils little sister.

yea ok but i am talking about one particular reason which will save millions... dunno if its so hard. only coordination is needed tbh...

reply to post by Akragon


Actually there is a woman in the SW of the US who is curing cancer. Her father did too, but he was hounded to death by Big Pharma. I do not have a name anymore, but I do know a Romanian family who had a family member cured by her after they had tried every other conventional treatment to no avail.

Been years since I read about her, and don't remember her name anymore. I think my roommate does though, I will see if I can get more info when I see him again. (Bear with me, closed last night and have to open back up this morning.)

This Father/Daughter team cures holistically I believe and have had a huge success rate. They will never allow Cancer to be cured though, not only will Big Pharma lose out - God forbid! - but the Cancer Association would cease to exist, and we don't want that do we? What if the tip tier of the Cancer Association had to give back their BMWs, or eve worse get a real job? God save us from that!

Every day I am reminded that educated people need to replace the education they should have got and didn't. We have become an idiot nation by design. Oh, Dancing With Stars is coming on, gotta go...

reply to post by Akragon


ATS is a loop, just like life, and history. Everything repeats itself I hope you guys get what I mean.

That being said, you're right, the big pharmacies would never invest on something they can't patent. If they can't patent. There is profit, but the profit won't fill their deep pockets enough and eventually the competition will beat them, especially the competition in the third world and the fast advancing nations.

Look at how much they are making from AIDS medicine, it has been patented, the price is from the minimum of 400 to maximum of 2000 USD.

This is insane price, and since certain countries couldn't afford it, some have decided to use International laws to bypass the grip hold of the big pharmaceutical companies. Nations which declare a state of emergency can buy from other producers which have no patent on the drug (kinda illegal). Thailand did it, buying the drugs extremely cheap from India, South Africa tried it, but failed due to the Pharmaceutical pressure over US regime, which in response pressured the South African government.

I think I said too much, I might have got everything wrong lol..

Guess why healthcare costs are so high.The system needed reform . Instead we got Obamacare. Who do you think Obamas in bed with. Here's a clue It ain't us.

reply to post by DrChuck

First off, that is not what you said in a earlier post, you clearly accused them of suppressing.

Secondly, so? There is nothing wrong with declining to pursue research on a drug. They are under no obligation, just as you, to save the world. Their business is making pills to alleviate symptoms and cure diseases, and if there is a product that will be unprofitable they are not doing anything evil by not pursuing it.

I don't believe i did, though i did accuse them if suppressing cures... would you like to show me where i said that?

Secondly... I disagree... It "should be" their obligation to pursue research on a drug that has a possibility of leading to a cure. Just as a med student must take their hypocratic oathe to do no harm. These companies are doing harm, and their led my medical professionals. Perhaps its the administration's fault but regardless, if they're in the business of making meds... they should be searching for a cure... not alleviation.

If they're in the business of making "cures" as you say... Name one thing Big Pharma has actually cured?

I'll disagree with you again on that. The research labs are in the business of making cures, and from what i've heard they've found a few of them... which are suppressed by big Pharma because its not profitable to find cures.

OK, bad choice of words. However there are diseases that do kill immediately. But you didn't go to med school did you?

Certain diseases, if not treated as soon as possible will kill very fast. Is that better?

yes that is better...

For example, Linezolid - can cause pancreatitis, liver damage, fungal infections, neuropathy, and many other adverse side effects. But with a septic MRSA infection, a patient would be dead less than a week. Linezolid may make life a bit harder while their on it, but a bad MRSA infection will literally ruin your day permanently.

Actually i have two clients that have a bad MRSA infection, and yes they are suffering but not because of the MRSA. Its simply their age and the various other issues they have such as severe contractures etc etc...

Better than dying, don't you think?

Not always...

Yes, its true that many drugs do have side effects much more dangerous than the condition it supposedly treats. And they are taken off the market as fast as possible. This is one area of Big Pharma that I truly hate. FDA will force Big Pharma to take their stuff off the shelves, but they will come back with lawyers and extend and appeal that period just so they can make money while harming others.

But seriously, do you know what the casualties would be if we didn't have streptococcal or malarial antibiotics, polio and smallpox vaccines, or HIV antivirals?

I think you're a bit confused my friend. Big Pharma did not find these vaccines and antiboitics... they only patient and sell them to the public. Thank the research labs for finding those blessings.

This is what this topic is about... The corperation that sells the drugs, not the research labs that find the solutions.

I understand they make enough money to take a loss now and then, but it is not their obligation nor duty. And to force that upon them is wrong. They should be doing it out of their own kindness or sense of compassion. It is their money, they can choose to do with it as they please.

Yet again i disagree... companies like this should be forced to invest in a cure if there is one available... If they don't they're no better then your average crack dealer. Crack users will tell you it alleviates pain as well. Though again this is beside the point. They're not in the cureing business, they're in the "selling legal drugs" business... which should be changed.

Like it or not, these "psuedo-remedies" save lives. But what you say is true, there are no real cures for most of our diseases except for microbial infections.

Thats not what i said... i believe there are cures for many diseases which the generall public will never see... obviously because cures arn't profitable, they're counter productive to the business.

So what if they make billions from peoples illnesses? It is their product that they made from their research and money, and sadly it does not belong to the world it belongs to them. And as such, they can do whatever want with it.

Again that should be changed, but how do you stop the powerhouse pharma co's?

This limited words thing on replies is pissing me off....

continues in the next post

reply to post by DrChuck

My emotions do not veil my logic as yours do. And my views on property rights and free will have no bearing on my ability to practice medicine. I believe every man has a right to choose whether or not to help their fellow man, I choose to help. But if you choose not too, I respect your decision as it is YOUR freedom to do so.

Quite the contrary my friend... I am on the front lines of "helping" people trust me.

I believe that exact same thing, but these are corperations not a single person. The investors are also quite rich as well so again... these companies can afford to take a loss once in a while. Their investors wouldn't suffer at all because even with a loss such as a cure for cancer they still have millions of other meds that they distrubute to the world. So they won't have a record year for once... these companies break their profit record every single year.

Believe whatever you want about these companies. In the end they arn't about helping people as you claim. They're all about money and that is it.

Well according to you, shouldn't all these professions be giving up their money and time just like Big Pharma? Every one of the professions I listed play a integral part in researching paid by Big Pharma. Without them, Big Pharma cannot produce drugs.

No that would be according to you. I said nothing like that. Everything that goes into the research is fine along with all the people that do the research. Big Pharma doesn't do the research they invest.... they invest in the pills, and distribute them for profit. They invest in research because through that research they will get more pills to give to the public.

These people do not make billions of dollars off of peoples suffering. They research to find a cure! They are doing exactly what they should be doing.

BUT

Big Pharma does not want cures because as i've said its counter productive. If a cure is found for something they're already distributing pills for, they lose all of that profit if that "cure" hits the market... Thus lawyers paid by Big Pharma make sure these cures never hit the surface if they do happen to find one. Similar to why we don't have cars that run on water... the technologies exist, i've seen them. Though imagine the world without the need for petroleum . Companies would go bankrupt.

Sadly Big Pharma would not be in that situation. If they lost one or even a few of their pseudo-remedies. They would still have the other million and a half pills that are still being purchased to alleviate symptoms.

Again this is why i made this thread.... something should be done about this.... but what?

No smiley face this time ?

It was quite late... i've give you two so i can make up for your loss.