Why are Americans so Vengeful?

Originally posted by Veilwalker
If we americans were as vengeful as you say, most members of congress, and pretty much everyone on wall street would be dead now. the crimes committed against us by just those two groups are so massive..if we were so vengeful, monsanto would be gone, they introduced GMO's into the food chain..americans these days are only vengeful on the little stuff, not the big stuff.

That's the irony. Americans are vengeful to the little people, their equals, but will make excuses for the true monsters, even if they complain about them.

Originally posted by MRSeuphoric1



And I call BS... There's nothing worse than an ungrateful, irresponsible American sitting on the sidelines bit**ing and DOING NOTHING TO CHANGE IT.


So before you stick your two cents in, back up and read the first 4 pages cause I am all over them participating in the debate. I only bowed out of the conversation after a day and 5 pages because I realized this thread is pointless cause the OP keeps flip flopping his opinion. (needs some history lessons.)

edit on 4-9-2011 by MRSeuphoric1 because: (no reason given)

how am I "flip flopping" my opinion? I think I have been "sticking to my guns", pun intended, the whole time.

I AM changing things by the way, by bringing the subject to light. I don't think most Americans even realize that our national morality champions unforgiveness in a way most First World nations don't.

Originally posted by RedGod
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

My bad, I quoted the wrong post.

Still, I think it's a bit unfair to cal "draft dodgers" cowards. They did what people always say to do "Don't like it, leave." They didn't want to do their duty, so they stopped being Americans. Easy-peasy

edit on 9/4/2011 by RedGod because: Wront post

Yes, maybe they realized their "duty" was not the most honorable route.

Originally posted by roadtoad
I already gave the answer to the OP on the end of page 6. No one actually commented. Alexsander's blog was next, contradicting someone, he didn't mention who, but I don't think he was speaking about me.
Vengenance all began because of religion, against the native indians. The prevasive attitudes continue to this day.
It should be known that not one inch of american territory was taken from the native indians in wars of aggression. NOT ONE INCH EVER!
It was all done by lies and underhanded tricks.

And why did Lincoln and the 14th admendment free the blacks but not the native indian?
Because Lincoln was black, that's why.
The 'Indian calvary' were the white calvary that went out and killed indians and stuff. The 'black calvary' were the black calvary that went out and killed indians and stuff. What if was the other way around. That the 'indian calvary were indians that went out and killed blacks and stuff. And the 'Black calvary were the white calvary that went out and killed blacks and stuff.
In 1965, there were 15 million blacks in the u.s. and 1 million indians. What if it were the other way around, and there were 15 million indians, and 1 million blacks?
Would 'diggers' be a worse word than ''n-word's, now?
No president ever, not even Andrew Jackson did more to destroy the native indian than Lincoln.
The lies, tricks and vengeful attitudes that happened then, with events such as the real story of Thanksgiving, as I described on page 6, began there, established a national attitude, and continue to this day.
And now that we've got a president that isn't even an American, the vengeful attitudes have come full circle.

I noticed. Appreciate it greatly.

I live in Norway, we have low criminal activity, No weapons and pepper spray (except Air gun thats not harmful to humans) and our prisons time is low and looks like a cheap hotel.

when the episode of Oslo and Utøya happened it was a tragic and some said they would hit him with a car if they ever saw him down the streets by accident "cough" but the whole Country hold hands with candles to mark the tragic days without screaming. the whole capital of Oslo was filled with people.

while am not really sure why America is so vengeful i believe the media news and with free gun is one of the problem.


and for the love of billions of people, dont blame the Video games for the rage. 12 millions (now less) play world of warcraft I was one of them and i believe there are ceartenly thousand of Criminals what also play the game, i just laugh and facepalms when i see Wow as a bloody grapic.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Yes, you are a scared bunch. Only scared people need capital letters to shout in forums.

reply to post by MRSeuphoric1


point taken, rash reply on my part....

Originally posted by m1991

Originally posted by RedGod

There's a petition now to allow concealed carry on college campuses. It would really cut down the fatalities in the next shooting, you know?

Perhaps, but it will also make them much more common. Would it make you feel warm and fuzzy inside if your classmates were packing lead and could shoot you at any moment if you made them mad?

Actually, yeah. Mostly because I have a concealed carry permit myself, but also because others would have concealed weapons themselves. If someone's going to shoot up the place, there's not a whole lot to be done about it ahead of time. Diligence can only go so far, so when the shooting starts, I'd be much happier if I was one of two fatalities than if I were one of 40.

Well, I wouldn't be happy at all, I'd be dead, but you get what I mean. Besides, I've pissed off a whole lot of armed people in my life, they're actually much less likely to shoot in a situation with a mass of other, unaffiliated shooters around as well. Granted, those were military personnel, but they're still people.

reply to post by m1991



Allow me to swiftly debunk your presumed premise...that Americans are "vengeful."

Consider the following:

The once touted American Dream: is DEAD.
The imitation jew bankers ROBBED America of her wealth long ago: and relegated the future labor
of the every man, woman and child to PAY for this thievery that has been allowed to grow exponentially
without checks nor balances....

Rights have been either abrogated, subverted or converted into Privileges...as if
we were all born into slavery and the only entity in existence to save us from ourselves is the federal gov't.

You would think that a nation reamed in the buttocks would rebel faster than you can say: "Obama."

Nope. It's business as usual for the Incorporated U.S. of A.

Why is that?

-Complacency?
-Ineptitude?
-Lack of motivation?
-Ignorance?

Whatever the cause...It has worked.

The joke is on us...at the expense of OUR children.

Originally posted by Siddharta
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Yes, you are a scared bunch. Only scared people need capital letters to shout in forums.

Ha. I always thought it was fear that kept people from not using all caps.

Dear Op,
Did you start this thread to troll for opinions as fodder for some high school homework assignment?

I love my country and it's people, warts and all. It's your right to complain as much as you like about how we are too __________ or not enough___________. I encourage you be our ambassador to the world if you are up to it. At your own expense, will you travel the world and bring us back the very best culture so that we can then reform ourselves in their image?

Why are they/we so vengeful?

Because we can be.

Not saying it's the righting thing to do, but with the extreme advantage that the U.S. has over any othere country in the world, if even the slightest thing happens, we react on it, knowing retaliation would be relatively small.

Originally posted by Chinesis
reply to post by m1991

 

The once touted American Dream: is DEAD.

That is a hard claim to make. Care to define what the"American Dream" actually is, then? Or you want to stick to the generic "the dream is that every generation will be more prosperous than the last generation"?

reply to post by m1991


Examples of flip-flopping (saying whatever; weather you mean it or not)

m1991-We have this idea of us being meek, righteous Christians, but we have NO sense of turning the other cheek and we worship mammon,

m1991-I'm not even religious

m1991-Our forefathers originally meant for the Constitution to only apply for white males. It wasn't written by God and wasn't a perfect document. If it was, it wouldn't have had to be amended so many times.

from m1991-I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about the 'average American'.

Examples of false facts & statistics (making stuff up)

m1991-America has the largest military the Earth has ever seen

m1991-Something's wrong when you can get a gun in an hour but it takes 9 months to get a passport

m1991-It's also proven fact most Americans are fanatical about guns and resent people who are on public assistance.

I'm just saying we're not even somewhat more humane than Europe, Asia etc were even in deep history.

I mean it's proven fact about 2/3 of Americans support the death penalty and a similar number think an innocent person has been put to death.

Proposes a topic or complaint BUT takes the "run away and do nothing about the problem stance"

m1991-I would love to leave the United States, except I have family here and also it's extremely difficult for me to even visit other countries because of the difficulty in getting a passport.

Lastly,
Like I commented 20 pages ago after "trying" to converse with you on this subject.... I am done with this thread. I can NOT pretend to have a useful conversation with someone who misquotes facts, apparently history isn't their strong suit but keeps quoting it incorrectly anyway, and most importantly:

The "I can't change anything" or "I have my own problems attitude"
when it comes to the well being of our country. If nobody tries to solve anything and just keeps complaining ( or running away like you said you wanted to) then nothing will ever get better. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR CHANGE..This is the exact problem I fear will cause America's downfall faster than anything else.

Instead, You have just created a 21 page thread consisting of mostly (not all) what I feel is pointless OFF TOPIC back and forth bantering about a question (or thesis) as you called it, that cant be disproved because its so vague and more of an opionon or editorial piece. (Americans are more vengeful than most other 1st world countries)

SO again, Respectfully....Have a nice day

Well crap, I wanted to post my thoughts, but I forgot and got uninterrested after all the bickering, sorry.

Jesus

reply to post by m1991

Like compared to Europeans, Canadians, and most other First Worlders? I'm an American, and it's pretty obvious to me that American culture puts vengeance on a pedestal. I mean New Zealand police don't even carry guns, but we shoot people just for looting TV sets.

Here, you claim Americans put "vengeance on a pedestal" because "we shoot people just for looting TV sets".
I'm an American too, and it's damn obvious that you are wrong! Maybe YOU would do so, but please don't speak for the vast majority of us!

Just think about it I mean. America has the largest military the Earth has ever seen, and most people in America don't feel outraged about using it for whatever reason, unless a lot of American troops die and a lot of American money is wasted. Bombing entire nations into the Stone Age is acceptable retribution to many Americans for killing 3,000 of us.

The United States DOES NOT HAVE "the largest military the Earth has ever seen". What we DO HAVE is a seeming unlimited resolve to fight for what we feel is right! Though we ARE occasionally wrong, the United States has done far more more to correct our errors than many other countries have.

By "killing 3,000 of us", you must be referring to Afghanistan and Iraq. They AREN'T among the nations that were bombed into the "Stone Age". If anything, Afghanistan was bombed from the "Stone Age", and into the "Age of Enlightenment". Due to our "interference", Iraq is much improved too!

Concerning Germany and Japan, noboby HAS EVER treated conquered nations with such dignity, empathy, compassion, and generosity, as the United States has. Both West Germany, and Japan, were both rebuilt at great expense to the US taxpayer. I dare you to show me another example that even comes close to those two!

Most Americans continue to support the death penalty even though most Americans also believe innocent people are occasionally put to death.

You use that comment as evidence of a vengeful culture, yet you don't mention those THAT HAVE BEEN convicted of murder, and the lesser charge of manslaughter, THAT HAVE BEEN RELEASED. Why is that?

Are you so smart, at the age of 21, that you no longer need to analyze both sides of an argument? I have read this complete thread, and already know that you think you are. I'll gladly burst your little bubble: YOU'RE NOT! You won't be truly smart until you can realize your own ignorance. Many of those that you so persistently ignore, have passed through that stage long ago. Surely you didn't think the "Hippies" died off! Many of them just changed their minds on numerous issues.

Besides, otherwise law abiding citizens who loved guns could still obtain them illegally if they wanted to badly enough, so it wouldn't be that ONLY thugs had guns, it would be simply a lot less people in general would have guns.

That's one of the silliest comments I've ever seen! The rest of the paragraph was pure garbage! Are you daft?

The worst thing too is Americans are especially unforgiving of the less fortunate. We hate people who go on SSI yet re-elect those who steal billions of dollars.

If that were true, there would NOT be Social Security Insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, Worker's Compensation, and numerous other federal and private programs, that DO help the "less fortunate"!

The point is, I would like to see a change from this vengeful and militaristic attitude in America. I would like us to become a peace loving and forgiving kind of people. Until then, I'm gonna laugh every time I hear people talk about Americans being the best people on Earth.

No! The point is: You are clueless!

My responses to some of your other statements:

what if the situation was the opposite, and the criminal had the gun and your grandpa had the knife?

Because you took grandpa's gun away, grandpa and grandma just became VICTIMS!

I don't think if I spent a month in Italy, I would change my tune that fast

Probably not, but only because 1 month would not constitute "living in another country". If you had to make a living in Italy, I'll bet you wouldn't last a year, though!

I spent ten years LIVING in other countries: Japan, Canada, Spain, and Germany. I loved, and still do, every damn one of them!

BUT:
The BEST THING about being a US citizen is: HAVING THE "RIGHT" TO RETURN TO THE UNITED STATES.

This one "RIGHT", all by itself, is the one "RIGHT" that most of the World is envious of! If that weren't true, we wouldn't have ANY immigrants!

Because of peer pressure in the late 1960s, one of my cousins, while in her early 20s, renounced her US citizenship, and moved to Argentina. She has since spent, without success, over 4 decades trying to have it reinstated. I suspect she will, one day, be buried there, so be careful of what you wish for.

See ya,
Milt

I believe the 'golden age' of America was between 1955 and 1975.
You had to be White, but, a couple could marry right out of high school, they could buy a house and a car immediately. This was true for all economic classes. Only the man needed to work. He could choose any field he wanted. They could live independent of their parents, or any one else, for that matter.
This situation has never occured, before, or since, in any country in the world.
This is, and was, 'the american dream'.

Just wanted to react to the 'person' that said that Europe never makes war except for religion. That is utterly false.In fact, Europe has made far more wars then most other continents and we (since I am European) are rather skilled at it. It is in that aspect that United States agressive position is party due to the inhertited European culture and genetics as well as initial pressure to pose big against 'old' Europe.

When the US grew it simply didn't got rid of them but embedded it as part of the defense mechanism of the core values of their form of democracy. Unfurtunatly due to too rapid grow, lack of real sustainable heritage and an unhealthy dose of capitalism it spiraled out of control. Generally speaking the US culture currently is slowly waking up due to the crisis. All that insta-corporate culture designed to turn people into cows is slowly being drained out of the US people since the corporation can no longer sustain their operations when the populance are getting to broke too afford the system.

Let's hope the US populance get's rid of all that toxic waste that's polluting their minds and starts focusing on getting the job done. That means building durable economy and not popsickle economy that gives instant gratification with zero thought about the future.

Ow; to back up my claim of Europe as violent I will now at a youtube video. Yes, it is somewhat wrong since Europe was practically te only continent in the past to document virtually every freaking battle. But it is also that which hints that for Europeans, at least the past 2000 years ago war was a primary importance. not how the wars spread when Euorpe starts colonizind after 1500-1600.

Originally posted by m1991
Like compared to Europeans, Canadians, and most other First Worlders? I'm an American, and it's pretty obvious to me that American culture puts vengeance on a pedestal. I mean New Zealand police don't even carry guns, but we shoot people just for looting TV sets.

Just think about it I mean. America has the largest military the Earth has ever seen, and most people in America don't feel outraged about using it for whatever reason, unless a lot of American troops die and a lot of American money is wasted. Bombing entire nations into the Stone Age is acceptable retribution to many Americans for killing 3,000 of us.

Most Americans continue to support the death penalty even though most Americans also believe innocent people are occasionally put to death. I guess it's a price worth paying to exact full payback? To be fair, most Canadians also supported the concept of the death penalty until very recently, and even now it's probably a 50/50 split, but many European countries oppose it by a vast majority. If you compare Hong Kong's crime demographics (a place with no death penalty) to culturally and socially similar Singapore's (a place that uses it so much Texans might blush) you will see no evidence that the death penalty has any kind of deterring effect.

And let's face it, the reason Americans are gun-crazed isn't just because of the Second Amendment. It's because a lot of people here just love the idea of blowing someone's head off if they intrude on their property. Not to mention people love guns because they wanna feel like they're in a Hollywood movie or on the TV show Lost (love the show, but how many hundreds of gun scenes are in it?) The argument that banning guns would increase crime because only criminals would have them is wrong. If that were true, Australia, Canada, and Britain would have far more gun-related murders than the States. Besides, otherwise law abiding citizens who loved guns could still obtain them illegally if they wanted to badly enough, so it wouldn't be that ONLY thugs had guns, it would be simply a lot less people in general would have guns.

The worst thing too is Americans are especially unforgiving of the less fortunate. We hate people who go on SSI yet re-elect those who steal billions of dollars. Isn't our indignation misplaced?

The point is, I would like to see a change from this vengeful and militaristic attitude in America. I would like us to become a peace loving and forgiving kind of people. Until then, I'm gonna laugh every time I hear people talk about Americans being the best people on Earth.

edit on 2-9-2011 by m1991 because: (no reason given)

First of all, you can only speak for yourself. You don't know what people think or feel. Where do you get the idea of Americans being vengeful and putting vengeance on a pedastal? How is it obvious to you? Who shoots people for looting TV sets? Last time I checked looting was a crime, but I haven't heard anybody being shot for looting. As far as the military goes. I think we spend too much money on the military. What do you mean "most people in America aren't outraged"? That's just not true. The United States should not be invading sovereign countries. Any death and any amount of money spent is too much for something that is supposed to be happening. The death penalty may not deter anybody from committing a crime, but that's not the reason there is a death penalty. Who's under the impression that the death penalty will deter crime? If you take a life, you lose yours. That's how it is. Not an intended deterrant, but a fact. People who want to kill another human will still kill. But why should a killer get 3 hots and a cot for life? If you don't to be killed by the death penalty, don't kill anybody. What's so hard about that? How do you know most Americans just like the thought of blowing off someone's head? Or they want to feel like they're in a movie? You make a lot of assumptions as if they are fact, but they're only your opinion. As far as the less fortunate, there are people who truly need help. There are a lot of other people scamming the system. Those are the people that productive tax paying Americans don't like. So keep laughing. Who has said that America has the best people on Earth. The fact is, People are People.

reply to post by Unvagdsd


Communism?

That reminds me, anyone replied to by thread please. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just look at it please.