Why are Americans so Vengeful?

reply to post by RadeonGFXRHumanGTXisAlien


while i agree with your statement that the US is only part of a bigger global picture of violence, i must say once again, this thread is about US violence.

as well, i have seen other threads on other culture's use of violence... most especially in the Middle East. i mean, ATS gets awfully close to anti-muslim a bit too often for my comfort.

finally.... if the US is supposed to be a beacon of Freedom and Democracy, why is it consistently mired in war and dubious practices? (not too mention its media's near obsession with the macabre... just put on the tele and count the murders.... yipes!)

if the US flaunts it's clout in the world (which it does), then it has the added responsibility to behave accordingly. it is of the OP's opinion the US has not. i tend to agree.

that's what this thread is about.

if you start a thread about violence in the rest of the world... it would be an interesting topic to explore just as well, and i would look forward to contributing.

in the meanwhile... do you disagree that the US specifically has not killed masses out of hate?
if so, then again i suggest "Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee."

No i agree.
Things like Tuskegee, Jim crow, Guatemalan medical experiments imo is what i consider "killing for hate", they were done by the US, medical experiments, purposely infecting people to try to find a cure, that was already found, many died, i agree, the united states has done a lot of primitive killing for hate.

It does swing both ways, and i do recognize them both, i also recognize european criminal medical experiments from the nazis to british colonial powers.
At the end of the day, evil must be punished.

First of all, not all Americans are vengeful. Just the ones who make the news. Open your eyes. Americans are brought up to respect and revere 2 things in particular: Uncle Sam and the Bible. 2 of the most vengeful entities known to man. Do the math. How many people have the U.S. military killed, including our own, since its inception? Go through the Bible and see how many people God had supposedly killed just in the time frame that the Bible was talking about? Remember the flood? he supposedly wiped out 99% of the human race for Pete's sake. And most of us here in America are raised to worship this deity. People lie, but numbers never do.

You grow up being taught to respect things like that, you're going to end up like that. You wanna talk about vengeful? America has only been a country for 235 years. A baby on the worlds stage. Middle Eastern cultures have been in existance for thousands, and I'm hard pressed to find any significant period time when that region has known any lasting peace. And this may be in large part due to the fact that through the history of time, people from different regions kept going in and trying to take land that wasn't theirs.

People say that it's in our DNA. Do people from Tibet not share my DNA? How about the tribes in New Guinea? I don't think either one of those people know what war is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's a Nordic country, Norway I believe, that doesn't even have a defense budget. They may know what war is, but they obviously want nothing to do with it. It's not our DNA.

It's in our upbringing. It's in the upbringing of people in a lot of other countries besides the U.S., but we get most of the attention because we have the most weapons in the arsenal.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
First of all, not all Americans are vengeful. Just the ones who make the news. Open your eyes. Americans are brought up to respect and revere 2 things in particular: Uncle Sam and the Bible. 2 of the most vengeful entities known to man. Do the math. How many people have the U.S. military killed, including our own, since its inception? Go through the Bible and see how many people God had supposedly killed just in the time frame that the Bible was talking about? Remember the flood? he supposedly wiped out 99% of the human race for Pete's sake. And most of us here in America are raised to worship this deity. People lie, but numbers never do.

You grow up being taught to respect things like that, you're going to end up like that. You wanna talk about vengeful? America has only been a country for 235 years. A baby on the worlds stage. Middle Eastern cultures have been in existance for thousands, and I'm hard pressed to find any significant period time when that region has known any lasting peace. And this may be in large part due to the fact that through the history of time, people from different regions kept going in and trying to take land that wasn't theirs.

People say that it's in our DNA. Do people from Tibet not share my DNA? How about the tribes in New Guinea? I don't think either one of those people know what war is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's a Nordic country, Norway I believe, that doesn't even have a defense budget. They may know what war is, but they obviously want nothing to do with it. It's not our DNA.

It's in our upbringing. It's in the upbringing of people in a lot of other countries besides the U.S., but we get most of the attention because we have the most weapons in the arsenal.

No you are very wrong, Norway has one of the most modern and up to date militaries on earth, and a budget of $6.2 Billion per year. Americans are too ignorant to speak about subjects beyond their borders.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by m1991

 

Well, we decended from one of the most barbaric people that ever walked the earth....it's in our DNA

Which ancestors and what DNA?

Which ancestors and what DNA?
To quote Led Zeppelin:

'We come from the land of the ice and snow,
from the midnight sun where the hot springs flow.'

And, more importantly:

'So now you'd better stop, and rebuild all your ruins,
for peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing.'

Originally posted by awareness10
reply to post by MisterBurns

 

Maybe if you'd stop thinkng like a McDonalds happy meal you'd get
what the topic of the conversation is about.

Wow, if you think a forum is a conversation and McDonalds food thinks then you need to join the queue for the valium.

You are unaware, paranoid and vengeful.

IMO

reply to post by bluemirage5


So did we, so that's no real excuse. You are a a barbaric bunch because you have been conditioned to be so. It is not any fault of your own. From birth until death, you lot are told that in order to succeed, you must abandon all ability to think freely and rationally, and adopt philosophies of zealotry and one-upmanship. In short, the ego has replaced the id in american culture. One thing that I realized a long time ago is the reason why they want you to be scared and depressed all the time, is that scared/unfulfilled people will always be better consumers, constantly buying things they don't really need to fill the voids in their lives. I know this to be true, as it is the same in Canada, where I live, so you cannot write this off as anti-american, nationalist crap.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by m1991

 

I think your info and the way you opinionize your content makes this obviously an "Op Ed" piece.. Did you conduct a survey to arrive at these conclusions? And BTW when you say Americans are "This and That and Feel like This and That" You are talking about yourself too.. If you are an American....

He's expressing his opinion, are you trying to say that's not allowed now? It sounds as though your post proves his point. That was a pretty revengeful reply, lol!

Maybe it's just because I'm American, but I fail to see any problem with being vengeful. I'm as peace loving as anybody, but if someone hurts my people there will be hell to pay. If someone were to harm, kill, or intrude upon my family, friends, or my girl, I would not simply offer my neck nor forgive them. I would defend mine with all the fury in me, and if I was not present for the act, retribution would be swift. If another nation decides that they hate America and attacks it, I am more then willing to defend it with my life, and I would want nothing else but that nation to be put in its place underneath the rubble of their ill willed civilization.

I do not own any guns. I don't have hollywood inspired fantasies about owning one. I most certainly don't love the idea of blowing someones face off with one, as I don't even really have it in me to hunt animals with one. What i do love is knowing, if necessary, I am FREE to defend MYSELF with anything at my disposal.

I have no problem with executing anyone who has been justly convicted, by a jury of their peers, of a crime that warrants the death penalty. In fact, I find it incredibly more cruel to incarcerate (lock a grown man/woman in a cage) someone for the entirety of their remaining life then to humanely destroy them. If I were convicted of such crimes, I would certainly fight the conviction, as I don't think I'd commit the crime, but I would ask to be executed instead of having to suffer any length of incarceration. I also don't think that tax payers should have to support the lives of criminals.

I do not hate people who receive ssi, wellfare, or what ever. I hate the policies. I hate that its mandated. I hate that the only benefit they receive is dismal survival. I hate that it in fact holds them back from success. I would love if instead of offering them a check for basic necessities it offered them education and other means of elevating their quality of life. I would love if we could have the capacity to offer a helping hand that doesn't go through a middle man. How many people get off these programs to live an independent if not successful life? I don't see any.

If you disagree with my sentiments on such things, I understand and respect that. My feelings towards the death penalty are obviously my own, and probably the result of some phobia of being deemed unfit for society, loosing the freedom I have, and being locked in a cage. Just know where I stand and that I won't back down on my convictions. While I would agree that being excessively vengeful over petty things is a nasty vice that can cause chaos, lawlessness, and tragedy, I believe vengeance on behalf and in defense of family, country, and way of life is just. The problem we Americans have is that we are astoundingly confused and easily misguided.

reply to post by soaringhawk


*claps half-heartedly* wow you've officially blown the shill quota right off the chart. Well done for you sir.
/end sarcasm

What can I say? As self-appointed leaders of the world, they've done a really, really crappy job.

And they've created a situation for themselves where millions and millions hate them and everything they represent.

Originally posted by swimmer15
reply to post by Swanfilters

 

be afraid...be very afraid...lol

www.globalfirepower.com...

edit on 3-9-2011 by swimmer15 because: (no reason given)

Why would I be afraid of Afghanistan?
2nd

Originally posted by Gannicus

Originally posted by m1991
The worst thing too is Americans are especially unforgiving of the less fortunate. We hate people who go on SSI yet re-elect those who steal billions of dollars. Isn't our indignation misplaced?

Americans are among the most generous on the planet. Among those people, so called "conservatives" give the most charity and blood. So basically, your entire post is generalizations based on your own bigotry.

Prove that people who vote Republican give more.

Why does everyone worry about what Americans do?...All I see lately is "America This" and "America That"....lets talk about soemone elses screwups and dysfunctional populations.....When Marines ("Americans") sent emmisaries to jap hold-outs on the islands at the end of WW2 the japs screwed them down onto their bayonets..why doesnt anyone talk about that?..Where are the posts showing outrage?.Then there is the entire african continent and its race to genocide 3/4 of its population so the rest can have food to eat...lets talk about them in detail...blood diamonds and S Africans Utopia included....and then there are the Balkans,Ireland,India/Pakistan,China,England(those folks boil bacon...now how warped is that?).....the list of potential topics is endless...now,if there is a general hatred of America and all things American,lets admit it and ask ther mods to do their jobs and edit out general hatred threads that are posted only to show how bad "Americans" are.....

reply to post by m1991


I Think somebody needs to do a little fact finding before they rant. im american also but its alot different in the state im in.

"America has the largest military the Earth has ever seen, and most people in America don't feel outraged about using it for whatever reason"
way off man, we by far have the largest military. you really need to look at facts before a rant

"the reason Americans are gun-crazed isn't just because of the Second Amendment. It's because a lot of people here just love the idea of blowing someone's head off"
i realize some people do not own anything they feel worth protecting. i do, i have kids, a wife, among other things that my family needs. dont think attacking me or my family or my property your just going to walk away from it. understand i have the right to protect me and my family and my country. you want to take my things or assault me or any of my family i have that right to protect myself/family. nothing revengeful about it its called protecting. i by far want to take somebody's life, im disabled/ to old and broke down to fist fight. ill use a gun..

"The argument that banning guns would increase crime because only criminals would have them is wrong. If that were true, Australia, Canada, and Britain would have far more gun-related murders than the States. Besides, otherwise law abiding citizens who loved guns could still obtain them illegally if they wanted to badly enough, so it wouldn't be that ONLY thugs had guns, it would be simply a lot less people in general would have guns."

Im not sure where to start? statement itself is contradiction so your saying that to ban guns then turn law abiding citizen into a criminal so he can have arms to defend himself from other criminals? does that make any sense to you at all?

"We hate people who go on SSI yet re-elect those who steal billions of dollars. Isn't our indignation misplaced? "
I know i dont know the groups you hang with but this is not the case around here i have not heard much hate about SSI i myself im on SSI maybe thats why i guess? was part of our work force for 24 years but got real sick and lost alot of my movement on left side, maybe your talking about welfare? sounds like another fact you forgot to look up before the rant?

out of entire post this is about the only legitimate rant "re-elect those who steal billions of dollars." we do need a much bigger consequent for people that steel tax money and are into corrupt.

"Until then, I'm gonna laugh every time I hear people talk about Americans being the best people on Earth."
You dont get out much do you? I have lots of oversea's friends and i have not heard that one for a long time i got a few Australia buddy's they call this place earths trash can. the ones i got in Denmark and Germany knows about the shadow government. most of them think (im with them) that we are just the most corrupt place on earth. oil/greed corporate agenda.

Get out from under that rock man see how it really is.

reply to post by Swanfilters


Link was supposed to open comparison of US and Norway military. Post was a failure!

Anyway either post has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I can understand the hate toward America for its wishy washy policies over seas. But Americas foreign policy's have little to do with the American peoples vengeance and more to do with the Government that's bought paid for and controlled by the global elite and the Military Industrial Complex.

Originally posted by gandamack2
England(those folks boil bacon...now how warped is that?)

You eat cheese that comes from a spray can, "cream" that has absolutely no dairy content whatsoever and burgers with 4,000 calories, you drink bright blue drinks that come from powder and your beer is actually the worst concoction of chemicals, so far removed from real beer. Actually, I'm surprised you can fit any food in your mouths, what with all the excrement that comes out of them. When you are not using your hands to type further excrement, you are stuffing your fat greedy faces.

Oh yeah, boiled bacon is Irish. YAIY.

Originally posted by NightGypsy
reply to post by m1991

 

See that's the lie people believe. That humans are inherently evil. I don't think that's true. And how the hell are we the freest country in the world? You can't even open a lemonade stand in this country without a stack of paperwork for crying out loud.

m1991, I ABSOLUTELY agree with your statement above. Humans are NOT inherently evil. Humans are CONDITIONED this way in their upbringing. Claiming that we are "inherently evil" relieves us of the responsibility for changing our bad behaviors and the violence that we teach our kids as they grow up.

I do think this one is funny. Many people who claim that humanity is inherently evil are using a Biblical perspective. But they're using a very fractured/one-facet perspective. Yeah, Bible's clear that we are children of wrath, but it's also clear that you can't enter the kingdom unless you're like a child, and that you're not supposed to sacrifice children to a god because the kids are HIS. Paul, in Romans, shows this divide and divides it into the part of you sin controls and the part God controls (when you allow Him to, lol):

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand.

Simply, there are things that are evil that are natural to us, but our minds strive to overcome them, and often fail. When Christians simply say, "The sin is in my flesh,." to someone outside the faith, it reeks of cop-out. Same thing with, "The Devil made me do it!" Now, some people DO mean it as a cop-out, but there's plain missing dialogue that someone who is an outsider would almost never hear.

Originally posted by mileslong54
Korea = 8,691,500
Vietnam = 5,495,000
Russian Federation = 21,781,000
Iran = 3,833,000
India = 4,768,407
People Republic of China = 4,585,000

United States = 3,049,790

Now THAT has some shock value.

Originally posted by m1991
I dunno, I think defending our gun laws when school shootings have become an epidemic is pretty fanatical. Also when other countries have changed their gun laws to become more strict and seen decline in murder. It's pretty irresponsible imo to be so pro gun.

You know, back when my grandpa and father went to school, most everyone who had a car had a gun rack full of guns in the school parking lot. It wasn't until after schools became a "gun free zone" the Comumbine happened. This does not help your point at all, but points more towards the: "When there are gun laws, only the criminals are willing to carry guns because they don't obey the laws anyway."

Originally posted by astrocreep


* Canada: After enacting stringent gun control laws in 1991 and 1995, Canada has not made its citizens any safer. "The contrast between the criminal violence rates in the United States and in Canada is dramatic," says Canadian criminologist Gary Mauser in 2003. "Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted."

* England: According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.

* Japan: One newspaper headline says it all: Police say "Crime rising in Japan, while arrests at record low"


Source: gunowners.org...

These figures are either incorrect or taken out of context. For one thing, Canada has always had lower violent crime rates than the States, so it's not really a fair comparison. How much did Canada's crime rate increase? 0.5%? Is that even a true statement? I don't think guns have ever been a big part of Canadian culture, aside from hunting moose and stuff, even before the changes back in the nineties.

Yes, it's true, England's crime rate did rise for a brief time. However, starting around 2000, it began to drop and today it's much lower than it was pre-ban. It can't be proven that banning guns in the UK lowered crime, since there's a lot of factors, but it did not increase crime.

Arrests have little effect on crime rates actually. In fact, if the prison system is a revolving door, they might even make matters worse.