How does one get "saved" according to christianity?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I never said you did. Just seemed like you were trying to make a point based on what I had said and I was letting you know that if you were that I didn't see the point.

I don't agree with any of it honestly, was just playing devils advocate as I tend to do in religous/spiritual discussions

reply to post by iterationzero


No problem.

I was NOT trying to peddle religion here.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n
I am not sure this will help but take a short stroll towards uncovering the truth ....peace " Over the centuries past, translators and commentators alike have had trouble with the Greek word Gennao. The noun form of this word means Genesis. There has not been too much trouble with this word when used of natural or fleshly things, but when it comes to the spiritual application, there has been some difference of opinion.

The word can mean either born or begotten. But the question that bothers is when to use the one or the other meaning. One rule proposed is that it should mean begotten when used of a father, and born when used of a mother. But this just does not solve the problem. Another suggestion is that in the active voice, it is begotten, and in the passive voice it should be born. But again we have difficulty.

When no set rule can be found, then the best we can do is to watch the context, both near and remote. The Word is consistent in its context, so we can be sure that if we get the meaning, then we can find the right word to use." www.believer.com...

Part of the problem we continually run into is people taking one, or two verses from scripture and basing their entire belief system upon these verses. IMO, the scriptures are meant to be read and studied in its entirety and then conclusions can be made.

However, that being said, I do believe that those who have been kind, peaceful, and loving to their fellow man, and who have tried to live righteous lives, will be accepted by Jesus, but not necessarily by God. Jesus is out mediator with the Father. He appeals to the Father on our behalf. God cannot look upon sin with any degree of acceptance, and without the atoning sacrifice of Jesus, we will be unable to return to the Father.

reply to post by MitchL61

Part of the problem we continually run into is people taking one, or two verses from scripture and basing their entire belief system upon these verses. IMO, the scriptures are meant to be read and studied in its entirety and then conclusions can be made.

Well, a lot of christian doctrine has been framed by "taking one, or two verses from scripture and basing their entire belief system upon these verses."

Surely, you are not disregarding the part of the bible I quoted, simply because it is not sitting well with another part of the bible, are you?

If not... tell me... why are people being punished/rewarded basis their DEEDS....and NOT because whether not they accepted Jesus' sacrifice?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

If not... tell me... why are people being punished/rewarded basis their DEEDS....and NOT because whether not they accepted Jesus' sacrifice?

Because according to christians, god has a set time period. A dispensation. After that, those who didn't receive Christ are judged differently.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The Christian teaching on being saved is that one needs to accept Jesus' sacrifice on the cross as atonement for sins.

If that was true, don't you think there would be at least one Bible verse that said so?
There is one verse I can think of that even remotely comes close to that but it has nothing to do with his dying, it is about his being righteous.

I see Gog and Magog has come up from the corners of the earth to destroy God's people.

reply to post by Klassified

Because according to christians, god has a set time period. A dispensation. After that, those who didn't receive Christ are judged differently.

Then just why does that partiular verse say that "all nations" were gathered?
That part surely does not seem to be referring to any particular time period.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I see Gog and Magog has come up from the corners of the earth to destroy God's people.

Who in your opinion are "Gods people"??

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You have shown in scripture what is on the hearts of all pure people. This is what "saves" people. If you haven't figured out that love is the answer and that ambition, greed, and a dependency on personal property is evil, then you need to get back in line and try again.

I always knew Jesus was a socialist.

ps - I meant "you" as a collective readership, not "you" as in the OP. Obviously the OP gets it.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

I see Gog and Magog has come up from the corners of the earth to destroy God's people.

Who in your opinion are "Gods people"??

I'm using the jmdewey rule for interpreting Revelation, which is; Revelation is always talking to the same people and it is always talking about the same people. Generally speaking, they would be the people whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I'm using the jmdewey rule for interpreting Revelation, which is; Revelation is always talking to the same people and it is always talking about the same people. Generally speaking, they would be the people whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world.

"the people whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world"

OK.

And on exactly what basis are these names written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world???

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Klassified

 

Because according to christians, god has a set time period. A dispensation. After that, those who didn't receive Christ are judged differently.

Then just why does that partiular verse say that "all nations" were gathered?
That part surely does not seem to be referring to any particular time period.

edit on 2-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

But it is referring to a certain time period. Read the previous chapter. Also see the gospel of Luke. It is referring to Christ's second coming.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

I'm using the jmdewey rule for interpreting Revelation, which is; Revelation is always talking to the same people and it is always talking about the same people. Generally speaking, they would be the people whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world.

"the people whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world"

OK.

And on exactly what basis are these names written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world???

On the basis of their relationship with God through Christ. Reread Romans 10:9-10 on the previous page.

ETA: Also see Romans 8:29-30 and Ephesians 1:5

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

5 ...having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will...

reply to post by sk0rpi0n




You have made a good distinction between the sheep and the goats, those who love their neighbour and those who do not. However, trying to play down the need for Jesus sacrifice is a fail if you look at everything that Jesus teaches.


Jesus lays down his life for his sheep:


JN 10:7 Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

JN 10:11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

JN 10:14 "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me-- just as the Father knows me and I know the Father--and I lay down my life for the sheep.


Jesus describes how he must suffer and die, he also states that if anyone is ashamed of him then he will be ashamed of them when he returns:


MK 8:31 He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.

MK 8:33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. "Get behind me, Satan!" he said. "You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

MK 8:34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."


The only way to know God the father is through Christ:

JN 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."


We can only bear fruit that is pleasing to God through Christ:

JN 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.



Loving God is more significant than loving your neighbour, if you truly love God then you will love your neighbour as a result:


MT 22:34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"

MT 22:37 Jesus replied: " `Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: `Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You know of course, taking Matthew 25 for your source doctrine is your first problem right? How can you be saved in this passage....if Jesus had not even died yet? Much less rose form the dead....

2, this is not the only passage that describes the "judgeent day", there are tons more, and this is not even the judgement you are thinking about... the sheep and the goats are not even people, they are nations...my oh my....when people dive into something over there head....

Please, stay out of Matthew, Acts, Hebrews, and James if you don't understand them.

Now, do you want to know how to be saved or not? Cause if you want to be saved, you must FIRST know you are lost.... why else would you need to be saved? and saved from what?

reply to post by KJV1611

...my oh my....when people dive into something over there head....

What is over everyone's head, including your own, is this philosophy you and others have adopted that nullifies Christianity and replaces it in favor of an invention so complex in order to thoroughly confuse the foolish who mistake it for something inspired by a high intelligence. The problem is it is, but it is the mind of Satan himself, where it comes from.

reply to post by Klassified

ETA: This is just a brief answer, and my two cents from memory. I am no longer a christian, and I have no desire to debate it in depth. I'll let real christians do that. Just thought I'd add some food for thought.

Not too surprising considering the religion you are promoting.
Christians get airlifted somewhere while the Jews take over, to later return to then be the servants to the Jews.
Why do that when you can just renounce Jesus, become a Jew, and get all your former compatriots to be your servants? Nice.

As soon as you see the words, Sheep and Goats Judgement, then you know to watch out because you are in the presence of a true cultist.
What this is, I found out through my good buddy NotYourTypical in the Everlasting Covenant thread, is how this Land of God party uses this telling of a judgement scene by Jesus, by showing what superficially looks to be a parallel judgement scene in the Old Testament, where the Lord is chastising nations for changing borders in a way detrimental to the land that was supposed to be an inheritance (or something to that affect).
The very ordinary way to understand the judgement description in Mathew is to look at a verse which comes a bit later.

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,"

So there is no great mystery here, it is just made into one by this cultish philosophy which seems to be well represented on this forum.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Commentary : Here we see that the sheep are selected basis their deeds towards others (feeding, clothing, caring etc). These people are being rewarded because of good deeds towards other people and NOT simply because they accepted Jesus' sacrifice as atonement for their sins.
Nothing is mentioned about Jesus' supposed sacrifice... or the need for it to cleanse man of sin.... or anything about christian doctrines such as original sin, atonement through sacrifice, etc.

Not difficult to figure out.
I notice no one has risen to dispute the post I made almost five and a half hours ago saying that the Bible never says that Jesus died to make a sin atonement.
Jesus IS the atonement that was necessary because of sin, and he is able to take that position based on his work as a man who was made just like his fellow men, who could have sinned but did not.
The death of Jesus was to end the Old Covenant and to create a new covenant where people can do right by repenting, being baptized, and following the gift of the Spirit which is now the guide to life, replacing the old written law which only offers death.
The truth is hidden by Satan and his minions to make people believe that Jesus died to show his submission to the old law, which to them, is still in effect, which is a scheme of supreme evil for one purpose which is the creation of a worldly beast empire with its capital in Jerusalem.